I just wanted to point out a double standard...

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

just observe how they play

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The things you mentioned is barely the tips of the iceberg. You can try and watch all you want but if that's really all you're watching for as indicator of good DPS, you have a lot to learn about each and every single job.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

not even T8.

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And I'd just ask you how do you know this when you haven't even beaten T5, let alone T8? How do you know everyone who beats it is not min/maxing? As Tiggy pointed out, you're imagining things Yoshi is not saying at all.

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Originally Posted by ispano

The funny thing about this was that the dev team did not expect any group to have enough DPS for at least several weeks after the first T8 kill. Now granted, part of this is due to finding a way to use one tank, but just that simple fact means people had to min/max to clear it. And even if they couldn't use one tank, they would have to min/max even more to beat enrage.

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And where did they say they didn't expect any group to have enough DPS? They only mentioned intrepid groups that push to turn 9. And I agreed with you that people had to min/max to clear turn 8, please read the person I'm quoting's post.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

That may be true, but min/maxing isn't required in any part of this game not even T8.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You need to try and understand these people better because right now you're the elitist saying "god it's easy just watch their rotations during battle" like it's an easy thing to do. It's not.

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To be honest, if I was still playing the game at the pre-Twintania level with echo and a whole new tier of being over-geared, I might have also thought it to be an easy thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

And I'd just ask you how do you know this when you haven't even beaten T5, let alone T8? How do you know everyone who beats it is not min/maxing? As Tiggy pointed out, you're imagining things Yoshi is not saying at all.

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The funny thing about this was that the dev team did not expect any group to have enough DPS for at least several weeks after the first T8 kill. Now granted, part of this is due to finding a way to use one tank, but just that simple fact means people had to min/max to clear it. And even if they couldn't use one tank, they would have to min/max even more to beat enrage.

The 'just look at what people are doing' argument is stupid. It's slower and either you start looking for who the weak links are after multiple failures on DPS checks or you have to constantly scrutinize everybody all the time.

Either cases still has you trying to find the weak links anyway, exactly just what parser using players are already doing.

Seems there's literally nothing not worth complaining about nowadays.

I agree with OP

I agree with whatever the popular opinion in this thread is

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

And where did they say they didn't expect any group to have enough DPS? They only mentioned intrepid groups that push to turn 9. And I agreed with you that people had to min/max to clear turn 8, please read the person I'm quoting's post.

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I was trying to enforce what you said. I'm on your side of the fence for this argument. :p Basically the quote about them being surprised people got past T8 so quickly, when it was designed to take more gearing up.

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Originally Posted by Vangl

Tank you suck. Keep agro = no ban.
Healer you suck. Cure more = no ban.
Dps you aren't doing over 200 to pass the dps check = ban.

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Actually all 3 of those examples could result in a ban. The first two because of the anti-harassment clause of the Terms of Service. And the third one because it is fairly obvious that the person making the comment is using some form of 3rd Party Software to arrive at the cited number and thus is at fault for also violating the Terms of Service.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

And the third one because it is fairly obvious that the person making the comment is using some form of 3rd Party Software to arrive at the cited number and thus is at fault for also violating the Terms of Service.

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Prove it. Maybe im a savant and i can pick up all that info from just reading the combat log(which is where the parser gets it btw).