Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

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Originally Posted by Usho

I just lol at the White Knights defending this bad decision for this roulette. But like I said, if you don't mind sitting through the same cutscenes over and over again everyday for meh rewards be my guest.

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I’m not sitting through the cutscenes, I’m doing something else while they auto-play. I’m genuinely happy for it to be this way because it’s the setup I would have wanted when I first experienced this part of the game. (Although I do agree that the ideal option would be the ability to skip scenes when nobody is new to the dungeon, I suspect it might be more hardwired and unable to do that. They still auto-scroll if you rewatch them at the inn now.)

I’m honestly not even thinking about the reward and whether the dungeon is relatively “worth it”. I just want to help new players.

...

*goes off to get white dye for paladin armour*

First, you can exploit editing a post to bypass the limits.


But, no, roulettes were never meant for facilitating speedruns.

Very early on the 2.0's life, before implenting DF and the Roulette dailies, running the level 50 dungeons was the only method to earn the earliest versions of tomestones. Ampador Keep and Wonderer's Palace, as well. (Darklight Gear, specifically.) Since we had 3 dungeons to play that rewarded tomestones, players spammed them, and the speedrun meta was born.

Essentially, these dungeons were designed before the idea of repeating content like we do now was the norm. The intermingled cutscenes was just a method to tell a story through some active group content.

WE are the ones at fault for forcing ourselves to run this stuff over and over again in the rush to gear up as fast as possible.

SB dungeons having more aggressive, harder hitting mobs and gates is another """bad""" (I can't airquote this hard enough) decision to try to force our collective asses to relax and slow down, too.

And that's great Iscah, good for you for wanting to help out newbies. However, others who feel the same way I do don't want to waste an hour of our time in a roulette which used to take 15 mins or less to finish.

I don't mind helping newbies either...but I also value my time and don't like that by doing msq roulette now, you are forced to rewatch the same cutscenes over and over again Everyday.

This isn't a single player game, it's a MMO. Yoshi-Fail made the final 2 msq arr dungeons have a single player mode feel and that's fine...in a non MMO game....but this is a MMO meaning you are playing with other people.

Continued....

Why do you think they didn't continue this single player mentality for HW and SB? Cause, they realized (kinda late) that NO ONE WANTS TO HAVE TO DEAL THE SAME CUTSCENE IDEAL AS ARR. I understand their intent but they could have made it better. This not only will screw over new players (queue time wise) but it also vets who used msq roulette as another source of leveling and poetic grinding.

The consensus of the people i play with and some of the newbies i chat with in Novice Network in game agree with me.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

was 62, ended at 63. I got 400 poe so at least one was new. with the exception of the cutscenes it was a pretty normal run, no trouble.

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You get double to triple your exp gain spaming sirensong sea, even if your using exp II buff from your fc , but exp buff III exists. The impact of rest exp , fc bffs and food is also much greater for sirensong sea, so if you have access to them, or using the squad manuals, you get far greater gains doing sirensong sea spam. I question 25 mins as well, minimum seems to be 35, someone that did a precise timing clocked 42 earlier in the thread.

Since we are talking absolute best, 1 run of sirensong sea gives you about double exp you gained in that MSQ roulette and to top things off can be done in 10-12 mins. with healer being almost instant queue to anything, you would got 4 fold the exp doing 2 runs of sirensong sea. For most, you can fit 2.5 runs of sirensong sea in the span of one MSQ roulette.

MSQ roulette is not worth doing in this state it is in.

@Ametrine: Sorry...can't hear you from back in 2013. This is 2018 now. 5 years have passed since this game was "re-released". Times have changed sir and or ma'am. The roulettes nowadays are a great source for speedrunning for exp, gear and tomes, especially since se doesn't put major cutscenes in the middle of dungeons anymore. Also note the sentence whenever you enter a instance and or roulette with someone new:


"Bonus experience points and rewards will be given for swift completion."

or something along those lines. So yeah roulettes and dungeons reward players for swift completion of the instance.

So I stand by my statement: MSQ roulette is not worth it now but if you wanna waste time on a non-skippable cutscene infested dungeon for meh rewards be my guest.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Why do you think they didn't continue this single player mentality for HW and SB? Cause, they realized (kinda late) that NO ONE WANTS TO HAVE TO DEAL THE SAME CUTSCENE IDEAL AS ARR. I understand their intent but they could have made it better. This not only will screw over new players (queue time wise) but it also vets who used msq roulette as another source of leveling and poetic grinding. The consensus of the people i play with and some of the newbies i chat with in Novice Network in game agree with me.

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Again, these were designed for 2.0 without the intention of us repeating these dungeons every day, let alone multiple times a day.

In fact, they specifically got their own roulette with seperate rewards for those willing to take newer players through the story heavy dungeons, only for us to collectively force players to skip everything.

THESE AREN'T MADE FOR SPEEDRUNNING.
NO DUNGEON IS.

What's likely going to happen now is players will use it in their early 50's, and mentors will see this frequently pop.
The giant EXP boost may not be enough post 60, but neither are most ARR leveling dungeons.

I was worried, but it's much better in practice. Don't force yourself into content you hate.

Guess you didn't read my earlier post so I say this again:

Also note the sentence whenever you enter a instance and or roulette with someone new:


"Bonus experience points and rewards will be given for swift completion."

or something along those lines. So yeah roulettes and dungeons reward players for swift completion of the instance.

You can white knight all you want Ame but the majority of ppl don't like this change. And no I'm not forcing myself to do this. I just feel sorry for the newbies who will have to wait longer to get ARR done now and the vets like me, who enjoyed this roulette for the quick 15 mins runs of those dungeons.

SE made yet another bad decision regarding ARR related content. But if you support their badness then go ahead but I don't support bad decision making.

Anyway, I'm not gonna debate with you Ame since you clearly are a white knight. GG

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Again, these were designed for 2.0 without the intention of us repeating these dungeons every day, let alone multiple times a day.

In fact, they specifically got their own roulette with seperate rewards for those willing to take newer players through the story heavy dungeons, only for us to collectively force players to skip everything.

THESE AREN'T MADE FOR SPEEDRUNNING.
NO DUNGEON IS.

What's likely going to happen now is players will use it in their early 50's, and mentors will see this frequently pop.
The giant EXP boost may not be enough post 60, but neither are most ARR leveling dungeons.

I was worried, but it's much better in practice. Don't force yourself into content you hate.

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optimal exp gain even before this change was PotD 50-59, then the great gubqal library at 59 to 60 if the person was a tank or healer, because of queue times, a DPS is better off going to 60 in PotD. The only odd level range out is 60 to 61, and with 2 tribes now, one can just bridge that there and maybe pop in trial and exp roulette. Doing all 3 of those things across 2 or 3 days gives 61, then you can at level dungon spam. That is how you gain exp in this game.

For people that know this, more so now, will not be doing MSQ roulette making queue times longer for those that really need it. It is too close to patch release to really see it now though, but dps are already feeling the longer queue times for it, used to be much shorter for dps. tanks and healer times are not really effected by it, least for now.

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Originally Posted by Usho

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SE made yet another bad decision. But if you support their badness then go ahead.

Anyway, I'm not gonna debate with you Ame since you clearly are a white knight. GG

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You haven't read my earlier posts regarding this MSQ change either.

SE is putting the emphasis on storytelling. The rewards haven't been good enough for LONG time as Poetics stop being worth the grind the moment you grow past the last expansion's gear. I might run this thing with a few friends when they hit that point.

I'm just confused at people feeling the need to ask for more more more to run this increasingly more time consuming dungeons verses running content you enjoy and do reward you at the point you are on level or gear progression.

I wouldn't consider that white knighting, just wondering why players torture themselves so.

Woo things getting a little personal attack-y in here. Might want to all step back a bit and take a break from the forums.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Also note the sentence whenever you enter a instance and or roulette with someone new:

"Bonus experience points and rewards will be given for swift completion."

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And that has been one of my very long-term issues with the game. As a new player (longtime gamer but new to MMOs), dungeons were a bewildering place, and I felt so rushed through it as the rest of the party went through at top speed. The last thing I wanted is for them to have an extra incentive to go *faster*.

I feel like it would make so much more sense if the “new party member” reward could instead be linked to the newcomer’s participation in dungeon mechanics - or completing the map, at very least. I worked out I could stay after the others left to go back and enter side rooms, but some dungeons are very difficult for doing that - particularly Haukke Manor’s locked side rooms which are still guarded by monsters that weren’t killed earlier.

Sadly, the newbie bonus was ALSO the result of shitty players kicking out newbies because it prevented speedsters from getting those "swift" completions.

Thus the wording.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Guess you didn't read my earlier post so I say this again:

Also note the sentence whenever you enter a instance and or roulette with someone new:


"Bonus experience points and rewards will be given for swift completion."

or something along those lines. So yeah roulettes and dungeons reward players for swift completion of the instance.

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Not really. You will get the same bonus regardless of if it takes 15 or 55 minutes to clear it. Rushing won't give you a bigger bonus, no matter what it says at the start.

Well, just ran it for the first time - got Prae. At level 57, I ended up with 1,946,585 exp and a super chatty group. Entered at 10:40 - exited at 11:28.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Well, just ran it for the first time - got Prae. At level 57, I ended up with 1,946,585 exp and a super chatty group. Entered at 10:40 - exited at 11:28.

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https://i.redd.it/pgsdxt5cdvzy.png

since your 70... (max Amory bonus)

691*4= 2.7 M, you would got 2.7 M exp in slightly shorter time span then doing MSQ roulette. A daily BONUS should have the highest efficiency gains, hence why you can only do it once a day, not be outperformed by dungeon spaming. This is also leaving out your queue time, and factoring that is quite significant for DPS.

losing out on 41% of exp in the same time span matters to many people

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

https://i.redd.it/pgsdxt5cdvzy.png

since your 70... (max Amory bonus)

691*4= 2.7 M, you would got 2.7 M exp in slightly shorter time span then doing MSQ roulette. A daily BONUS should have the highest efficiency gains, hence why you can only do it once a day, not be outperformed by dungeon spaming. This is also leaving out your queue time, and factoring that is quite significant for DPS.

losing out on 41% of exp in the same time span matters to many people

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Yeah, I was queued with my Tank buddy which made it a bit more tolerable (for queue time). I haven't tried solo queuing, so not sure how the timer is looking these days.

I don't think this is something I'd run every day, but maybe now and then if I'm just wanting something mindless or am going with friends.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Not really. You will get the same bonus regardless of if it takes 15 or 55 minutes to clear it. Rushing won't give you a bigger bonus, no matter what it says at the start.

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Yeah, the bonus is just having the newbie finishing in the same instance with you. There is no measurement of the time at all taken into the bonus account. Never has been either.

It's to prevent jerks from kicking players that need instruction since they were slowing down runs. "Help the new guys in a longer run, get more tomes!"

(This really has been a long standing issue of people being in a constant rush. Need of efficiency overcoming enjoyment in a video game is never a good thing, yet here we are.)

Flagged up for MSQ with my husband today. We were both DPS. We flagged for duty at 3:02pm EST and entered about 20 min later. Got Prae. Exited at 4:11pm EST. So, from flag to finish it took about an hour and ten minutes for 1.4 mil exp as a 58 SAM.

Here was the kicker for me: We had 3 new people. Two of them were complaining more than us vets about the cutescenes. All of us agreed the roulette wasn't worth it and won't be flagging again.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Flagged up for MSQ with my husband today. We were both DPS. We flagged for duty at 3:02pm EST and entered about 20 min later. Got Prae. Exited at 4:11pm EST. So, from flag to finish it took about an hour and ten minutes for 1.4 mil exp as a 58 SAM.

Here was the kicker for me: We had 3 new people. Two of them were complaining more than us vets about the cutescenes. All of us agreed the roulette wasn't worth it and won't be flagging again.

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Exactly. If even the newbies are complaining about the cutscenes that should give white knights who defend se's bad decisions a somewhat clear vision as to why not everyone likes these changes...Even Newbies. SE keeps catering to a small minority of ppl, some of which don't either like the long cutscenes and or hate the much longer wait to get into those dungeons. I've had newbies in novice network who don't like the changes either, especially since they have to wait even longer to get through arr because of se's poor decision making.

I await your counter argument white knights.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Flagged up for MSQ with my husband today. We were both DPS. We flagged for duty at 3:02pm EST and entered about 20 min later. Got Prae. Exited at 4:11pm EST. So, from flag to finish it took about an hour and ten minutes for 1.4 mil exp as a 58 SAM.

Here was the kicker for me: We had 3 new people. Two of them were complaining more than us vets about the cutescenes. All of us agreed the roulette wasn't worth it and won't be flagging again.

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like i been trying to tell the 1 or 2? people white knighting this change, there are new people that DO NOT WANT to watch the CS as well. SE needs to learn that those few threads made by quitting or almost quitting players are very few. why inconvenience a thousand people for saving 1? People can PF it anyway that really care. it is not the playerbase fault that SE is not very clear in teaching new players how to use PF, or advice new players if they care about the story that much, they might want to do it with a friend or 2 and take their time.

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Originally Posted by Usho

SE keeps catering to a small minority of ppl, some of which don't either like the long cutscenes and or hate the much longer wait to get into those dungeons.

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You, like many people, keep thinking your sample is the majority, and you use that to counter SE's decision, when they are the one who have the most statistics to judge which adjustment they should make.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

why inconvenience a thousand people for saving 1?

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Another bland estimation trying to pass as an actual sample...that's the third time, good job !

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

it is not the playerbase fault that SE is not very clear in teaching new players how to use PF, or advice new players if they care about the story that much, they might want to do it with a friend or 2 and take their time.

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Same old debate, if you expect more than the base flow of the dungeon, you are the one to make a premade, not those who don't want to be rushed.

went into the new patch without reading any of the notes. queued up for MSQ roulette as i usually do, only to be greeted with this. did the first two bosses but left because i realized the 30 minute penalty is far shorter than how long it would have taken to complete the dungeon.

not entirely sure what i'm going to do for poetics now, but then again i didn't really use them for much. oh well.

so just did one myself and now i remember why i skipped the cutscenes in the first place, its constant 'swooshing' and flowing movements can be a bit motion sickening, and the cutscenes every 5 paces kills the momentum in the dungeon, while it was fun to see the cutscenes again it just reminded me as to why i skipped them when i first played, they were long and the constant swooshing of the camera wasn't very nice to watch.

the dungeon took 48 mins to complete but i aint in a rush, wouldn't mind if it gave some end game tome-stones then poetics.

If SE is going to keep things this way, perhaps they could implement the following to make it more alluring again:

1) Add all required MSQ dungeons, trials to the roulette. So this would add in Cape Westwind, all the primals, etc. People may be willing to take the gamble if several super-fast trials are possibilities.

2) If there are no sprouts, for the love of all that is holy, let people skip CSs

3) If there are sprouts, and you have to watch the CSs, I'd say bump up the exp some more. Make it comparable to running some dungeons instead.

4) Switch it to end-game tomes. Most people don't need Poetics.

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Originally Posted by Cavistus

went into the new patch without reading any of the notes. queued up for MSQ roulette as i usually do, only to be greeted with this. did the first two bosses but left because i realized the 30 minute penalty is far shorter than how long it would have taken to complete the dungeon.

not entirely sure what i'm going to do for poetics now, but then again i didn't really use them for much. oh well.

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You can farm them easily by spamming Aetherochemical Research Facility (the lvl 60 HW dungeon). It gives you 150 poetics per trip and still best source for poetic farming. Also, I think 50/60 roulette still gives poetics as a reward as well. So you'll still be getting a lot of poetics each day without having to step foot in that bs msq roulette again.

/2 cents

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You, like many people, keep thinking your sample is the majority, and you use that to counter SE's decision, when they are the one who have the most statistics to judge which adjustment they should make.

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How did Square get the statistics on how many wanted to be forced into the cutscenes? I thought the reason they stopped making dungeons like Castrum and Prae was BECAUSE people didn't like that.

So I guess going right back, how do YOU know the sample of people wanting to view 30+ minutes of cutscenes is the majority? It ain't about the majority. If it was, there'd be plenty of other changes that wouldn't exist, like Feast chat being very limited.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

How did Square get the statistics on how many wanted to be forced into the cutscenes? I thought the reason they stopped making dungeons like Castrum and Prae was BECAUSE people didn't like that.

So I guess going right back, how do YOU know the sample of people wanting to view 30+ minutes of cutscenes is the majority? It ain't about the majority. If it was, there'd be plenty of other changes that wouldn't exist, like Feast chat being very limited.

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Neither side can prove anything. Can we stop with this stupid argument?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You, like many people, keep thinking your sample is the majority, and you use that to counter SE's decision, when they are the one who have the most statistics to judge which adjustment they should make.

Another bland estimation trying to pass as an actual sample...that's the third time, good job !

Same old debate, if you expect more than the base flow of the dungeon, you are the one to make a premade, not those who don't want to be rushed.

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Do you even READ?!?!?!?! you CAN'T EVEN DO PREMADES anymore, they make you watch them doing unsync. Can for once you stop throwing out stawmans? Your response does not reply to my points at all.

Sorry when you are solo queuing, you talk to the group and work something out, not have the development team force something on everyone, you need to grow up, along with the select few that complained about quitting because of speed runners (outright harassment is different and up to people to kick them, not stand and watch)

You do not even read my posts, you pick something very tiny and minor and only comment on that, all you are doing is trolling this thread with red herrings and stawmans, stop it.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Neither side can prove anything. Can we stop with this stupid argument?

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Yes we want to but Reynhart keeps bringing it up to troll the thread. I advice people to report that particular poster if they had enough with the trolling and derailing.

Here are the facts, every once in a while someone makes a thread here complaining about MSQ speed running. No one comments on how many actually prefer speed running and how many new people skip them no questions asked.

All we see is a blind sudden change without discussion, and you (as in general sense) are shocked about people questioning how many people want unskipable CS in the MSQ roulette? SE overreacts, obviously (lolfeastchat), and they have yet to comment on this issue.

From all my personal contacts, NN, this thread, these boards, people complaining about not being able to watch the CS is RARRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE, it is more common to see people kicked that are harassing the new players, or new players (or the friend with the new player) being toxic and trying to hold the group hostage. It is more common for the group trying to make the new comer feel better but the MAIN ISSUE IN ALL OF THIS, is there is likely a group of people that don't say a word and complain later, that is completely their fault for not communicating.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

[...] But I do believe that a part of the playerbase is not playing this game for the story (which is honestly fine for an MMO but nothing that great for a game story imo) [...]

In the end I am just curious how long those that are fine with that will run the dungeons. How long it will take them to get bored and annoyed of it too.

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I forgot to respond to this earlier.

I agree that the story quality is.... variable, but when it gets good it gets really good. The late part of ARR starting from when Lahabrea is unmasked. The ending of the "hundred quests" where all the pieces set up beforehand fall into place one after the other. The aftermath of the Vault.

Heavensward's ending feels like a bit of a blur at the moment, having just done it, but from a perfect storytelling experience I just don't feel like the fragmented "we learned from ARR's issues and made a dungeon with no cutscenes" approach has the same impact, and I can't re-experience it in quite the same way that the Praetorium let me dive back in and see all of those scenes in sequence and in context again.

I'm also curious whether I'll get bored of it, to be honest. I've only gotten Castrum since the cutscene change was brought in.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Exactly. If even the newbies are complaining about the cutscenes that should give white knights who defend se's bad decisions a somewhat clear vision as to why not everyone likes these changes... Even Newbies.

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It tells us that there are "more than zero" first-time players that dislike watching cutscenes. We don't have the statistics because we heard one group of people complain.

I've been on a run where the first-time player has come out of every cutscene gushing about how awesome this is.

I had a conversation with another player last night that went along the lines of:
"Wait, why won't it let me skip the cutscene?"
"They changed it so newbies won't get left behind or pressured to skip them."
"Makes sense."

Anecdotes are not data.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

How did Square get the statistics on how many wanted to be forced into the cutscenes? I thought the reason they stopped making dungeons like Castrum and Prae was BECAUSE people didn't like that.

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Or it may be because they realised that people were getting rushed along and missing out on the grand experience they intended it to be when they crafted it?
That's certainly going to be the theme of the complaints they've received so far - because when the dungeon can be rushed, the complaints are going to come from the people who wanted to take it at story-pace. Now that it's been slowed to that pace, the complaints will come from people who wanted to rush it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Or it may be because they realised that people were getting rushed along and missing out on the grand experience they intended it to be when they crafted it? That's certainly going to be the theme of the complaints they've received so far - because when the dungeon can be rushed, the complaints are going to come from the people who wanted to take it at story-pace. Now that it's been slowed to that pace, the complaints will come from people who wanted to rush it.

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From what I recall from my friends who were here for that patch cycle it was a bit of both. At the time Castrum and Prae were the only end game dungeons available and within weeks people had already found all the exploits the developers erroneously put into them. It wasn't out of malice, it wasn't because people wanted to rush out the sprouts, but by virtue of the fact that there was /nothing else/ until 2.1 dropped. That in itself speaks to the poor design of the dungeons twofold. First that they can be exploited to such an immense extent, which is probably why so many of the subsequent 2.1-2.55 dungeons have 'road blocks' every other room, and the fact that their own lack of initial end game forced players to use those dungeons in tandem with people who just wanted to clear the story. It was a /mess/ from all the accounts I've been hearing and SE fully deserved being made to issue an apology for that.

Likewise from my own perspective, I've never heard anyone claim these dungeons are well made even as far back as 2.4. Their pacing is atrocious and while I had friends who allowed me to watch the cutscenes for Castrum after begged for their help in defeating the queue I quickly started skipping them during my own initial runs once I realized how poorly integrated they were. I know many people who felt similarly as well and still do to this day. The story wasn't grand enough /or/ well crafted enough to warrant the pacing issues that I could otherwise have forgiven in a solo instance, and going back to it now only further cements the belief I held back then. For better or for worse, SE made two terrible dungeons and then got a lot of flack for the both of them for a variety of reasons. Regardless of which side of the divide you stand on /now/, I don't think anyone can really say the subsequent changes they made to how they integrate story into mandatory dungeons isn't an improvement. Because I sure as hell enjoy not having this same issue repeated in Aetherochemical and Ala Mhigo respectively.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

So I guess going right back, how do YOU know the sample of people wanting to view 30+ minutes of cutscenes is the majority?

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I don't. But I'm not the one having to advocate what they should do, because they already did. And I'm pretty sure they have a good reason for that.

As for why they didn't do dungeons like that after, my guess, is because they didn't want to create a new roulette in HW for a specific dungeon (or two), and were afraid of people bailing out (before the penatly existed) if some dungeons were really longer that others.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I don't. But I'm not the one having to advocate what they should do, because they already did. And I'm pretty sure they have a good reason for that.

As for why they didn't do dungeons like that after, my guess, is because they didn't want to create a new roulette in HW for a specific dungeon (or two), and were afraid of people bailing out (before the penatly existed) if some dungeons were really longer that others.

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You can't answer because you know it defeats your view.

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Originally Posted by Usho

A roulette is basically meant to be speedran and to be done fast.

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No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

I said this in another thread and don't know if someone had a similar idea but...

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The easiest solution to this problem is to remove the cinematic cut-scenes and make the "cut-scenes" run in real time. There's already a break in combat so you may as well have the NPCs say their lines via Text Bubble, perform actions in real time, and then go right into the next section. This will reduce the loading between cut-scenes and plus streamline the dungeon. The Dev Team needs to reconsider their stand on not updating or QoL older content because they don't have "time and resources" to do it.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I said this in another thread and don't know if someone had a similar idea but...

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If they do not have time or money resources to address it properly, then they have no business making this blanket change of making the CS unskippable no matter if you enter unsync or using the DF for it

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

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guess what? they made the MSQ roulette not worthwhile

01-26-2018 07:22 PM #1 Louvain
*130 likes as of 3 am

Hey Reynhart, this thread is 56 pages long with 130 likes in 9 days, did any of those "fix the MSQ roulette, they abuse new players" ever get this much attention? Maybe it is a clue this change harms more then helps.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

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This may be true however if they remove the roulettes.. Most players will farm one dungeon or piece of content which is the fastest for said bonuses.

If they add more roadblocks to slow players down, these said players will do the roulette once and again farm the fastest dungeon or content to get whatever they need done. They need players to fill these roulettes up so they give us incentives if they don't all the new players will hit roadblocks.

I think it's fine as is, the cut scenes aren't bad and I think it's good for new adventurers. HOWEVER I would change it so that...

1. IF there is a new adventurer you get a tombstone bonus that isnt poetics and is instead the higher tier one. Maybe even make the exp bonus greater to encourage higher level players leveling classes to run it rather then avoid the roulette all together.

2. If there is no new adventurer let us skip cut scenes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Hey Reynhart, this thread is 56 pages long with 130 likes in 9 days, did any of those "fix the MSQ roulette, they abuse new players" ever get this much attention? Maybe it is a clue this change harms more then helps.

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Here's one where the the OP is at 100
Another one where the first reply agreeing to the OP is at 156

Both topics not posted just after a big change on that subject, which likely gives a lot of attention to recent threads, and that don't have half of their content complaining before ever knowing how much of an issue this could be (For example, when people still hoped they could skip the cutscenes in premade and were only complaining about the roulette, making all the concerns about alts moot back then, or having no real idea or how the reward would be increased)

Again, don't try to prove you're a vast majority...

I'm just sitting in the position of waiting it out. I just don't need poetics right now, so I have no reason to run it, but I do have RDM at level 50, so I might do some EXP recordings to test it out.

My deal is I would run these dungeons unsync with players so that they could see the scenes proper. I would always be the one volunteering to lead newbies along if they wanted to watch the CS.

So my attitude going into this roulette was that it'd take time.

It's just been rolled back to the same category as guildhests to me. Only worth it at a certain level.