DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

It wasn't as bad as in 3.x when we had great self-healing but its shortcomings are really sticking out right now.

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uhm, what? DRK never had great self-healing (besides abyssal drain with huge trash packs perhaps).

Fresh 70 Dork knight here. Been a War main since 1.0... My ilvls are the exact same on both with almost exactly the same stats.

Parsed DPS on both and Dork was a bit lower but no slashing debuff so I'm not really worried about the dps disparity but if SE wanted them to be even more closer... A few small potency changes would do it easily.

Few things that bother me:
-I cannot double weave very well at all due to my ping I'm assuming which is around 120~160MS without clipping very slightly and I expect it to get worse as skill speed goes up within this expansion cycle. If blood weapon is on, may as well forget double weaving all together. If dark arts was changed to function so that it stays on for 5 seconds similar to TBN then that would help significantly and might even boost DPS on drk enough to not need potency changes. Get off multiple Dark arts potencies with one dark arts button press within 5 seconds. MP cost could go up slightly or something IDK. On war I don't have to double weave at all really.

-Gonna chime in as well on the Living Dead... It can be difficult for scholar/astro comps to get hp up in time without a benediction ready for it. Warrior and PLD have no real draw backs from theirs, why make one for drk? At the very least instead of autokilling the DRK it could be changed to just putting on a Weakness debuff instead to give the group some wiggle room in the event of heal to full failure.

-Is it just me or is self sustain the lowest on dark knight? I don't know how to fix this, if I'm the only one experiencing this then I guess I'm doing something wrong. At the very least I think DRK needs an instant or mild cast HP grab similar to PLD's clemency or War's Equilibrium. Why not Aqua Vitae, if not now hopefully in 5.0...

-Dark mind change: 15% Magical mitigation. With Dark Arts: 20% Vulnerability down. (this will include physical damage). There are alot of times this skill just sits waiting for reason to use or the boss doesn't use a significant magical attack and/or is unknown when to use due to no way of discerning if boss attacks are sometimes magical or physical till experienced.

-I kinda wish bloodweapon was allowed in tank stance since berserk is on war but since bloodweapon affects blood gauge gains, it is difficult to say. Perhaps it should only affect blood gauge when grit is not up if thats possible.

I'm still new to dork knight so I don't really have anything else to add currently. I kinda wish I could AOE TBN with a dark arts for 10% on everyone but that might be OP, even with the enormous MP consumption. However DRK now is the only class without any kind of AOE mitigation since war is getting one.

I don't know what do all theses peoples have with "Dark Art not fading on execution".

The sole point of the skill is to have a charge system transfering MP into raw potency, making it a buff with a duration would just create a breakpoint where you try to weave 3 weapon skills and 1 to two ogcd into a DA window, and making it's MP cost completely bursted for high ping users, and worthless for low ping users.

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Originally Posted by Tint

uhm, what? DRK never had great self-healing (besides abyssal drain with huge trash packs perhaps).

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I could solo a 4 man HM boss easy from 10-15%, it was probably a combination of factors though.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

I don't know what do all theses peoples have with "Dark Art not fading on execution".

The sole point of the skill is to have a charge system transfering MP into raw potency, making it a buff with a duration would just create a breakpoint where you try to weave 3 weapon skills and 1 to two ogcd into a DA window, and making it's MP cost completely bursted for high ping users, and worthless for low ping users.

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Its literally 5 seconds and I even noted I would be fine with a bit of an MP cost increase. If that bugs you so much you should have tons of other complaints. I can't recall exactly where and when I read or heard it but I know yoshida said that he does not like the idea of double weaving and to be honest I'm with him on this one. There's no reason to have to double weave to try to push out a bit more dps when Latency can be a factor. It's not about skill at that point, its about a level playing field for people who are not close to the server.

To be honest, double weaving carve and spit is the only trouble I'm having. If carve and spit did not have a potency boost from dark arts and always did dark arts potency without it... then I could care less about dark arts being a weave skill.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

I could solo a 4 man HM boss easy from 10-15%, it was probably a combination of factors though.

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DRK self sustain was always the weakest of the 3 tanks. we lost Boodbath and Mercy Stroke in 4.0, however, Mercy Stroke had not much relevance and the lost of Bloodbath is compensated with the Souleater buff. they increased not only the potency, but you can use Dark Arts now basically on every combo, wich further increases the potency of Souleater and a bigger potency means a stronger heal.

the real problem of DRK still is the lost of the weaker defensive cooldowns with longer uptime. 20 seconds Foresight and 20 seconds Reprisal. DRK still has a good defensive kit against tank busters, but Souleater alone is not enough for inbetween these busters...

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

To be honest, double weaving carve and spit is the only trouble I'm having. If carve and spit did not have a potency boost from dark arts and always did dark arts potency without it... then I could care less about dark arts being a weave skill.

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While it's not optimal, you can use the DA after a Souleater, and then Carve and Spit after a hard Slash if double weaving is clipping too hard.

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Originally Posted by Tint

DRK self sustain was always the weakest of the 3 tanks. we lost Boodbath and Mercy Stroke in 4.0, however, Mercy Stroke had not much relevance and the lost of Bloodbath is compensated with the Souleater buff. they increased not only the potency, but you can use Dark Arts now basically on every combo, wich further increases the potency of Souleater and a bigger potency means a stronger heal.

the real problem of DRK still is the lost of the weaker defensive cooldowns with longer uptime. 20 seconds Foresight and 20 seconds Reprisal. DRK still has a good defensive kit against tank busters, but Souleater alone is not enough for inbetween these busters...

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Today for instance healer died at around 10% on Zenos, I managed to keep the DPS a couple aoes up with TBN but I couldn't solo him at around 6%. I just feel really weaker in general and very squishy without TBN up.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

While it's not optimal, you can use the DA after a Souleater, and then Carve and Spit after a hard Slash if double weaving is clipping too hard.

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I usually try to do this whenever possible, even more so during blood weapon. I have the same problem with DA+dark passenger and also try to do it this way but in that same sense it also means they are waiting to be used that much longer. Not a significant dps loss to worry about but every little bit counts i guess.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

Today for instance healer died at around 10% on Zenos, I managed to keep the DPS a couple aoes up with TBN but I couldn't solo him at around 6%. I just feel really weaker in general and very squishy without TBN up.

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just look at our defensive kit after 4.0:

Dark Mind
Shadow Wall
The Blackest Night
- that's everything wich actually reduces damage. one skill wich only works on magic damage, one skill with a super long cooldown, both skills have only 10 seconds uptime, and we have TBN.

then we have Living Dead and some selfheal from Souleater and Abyssal Drain.

this is your whole, personal defensive kit. i want to mention that PLD has a passive defensive buff through his shield and WAR has an increased parry rate with his Beast Gauge in tank stance, on top of everything else, while DRK has nothing compareable.

edit: oh, i have forgotten that you can spend half your mana bar for an aoe blind >.>

i was never into dps, i am a tanky tank who likes being tanky. but DRK doesn't really feel like a tank anymore. way too often i have to rely on the healer alone, since i have absolutely nothing to help him with mitigation, or i will feel even more sorry when the next buster comes and i already have blown my few cooldowns...
i was in Chrysalis through trial roulette lately and i felt like a noob eating all the tankbusters without any cooldowns... but what should i do? TBN is a lvl 70 skill and the busters are physical... Rampart and Shadow Wall are simply not enough for that fight...

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Originally Posted by Tint

just look at our defensive kit after 4.0:

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if only DRK had another damage reduction skill that say, reduced damage by 20% or something. Call it shadowskin or something that it could slot alongside rampart and shadow wall to make up for its lack of defensive CD's.


*edit, I just noticed that PLD gets 6 traits compared to DRK's 5 and WAR's 4.

War's only trait aside from increased Vit is infuriate reduction...bleh.


DRK gets blood on combos and...skills. Amazing...

PLD gets a flat 20% damage reduction for cover and the ability to cast any spell without interruption along side vit and oath gauge alongside everything else. Say what?

A new trait for DRK would be a nice chance to buff it I think.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

A new trait for DRK would be a nice chance to buff it I think.

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For sure. This has been brought up a number of times in the DRK threads.

The fact that Blackblood and Enhanced Blackblood we're broken up into two different traits is ridiculous and it feels like this was just done to spread one thing out and make it seem like DRK has more traits than it functionally does. They should just be combined into one and have a new trait be provided to fill the gap.

A lot of the tweaks or additions to DRK abilities that have been put forth could easily be fit in as a new trait, for example the idea of expanding the capacity of the Blood Gauge, perfect fit for a new trait. With that as the new trait they could even keep the name of Enhanced Blackblood.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

For sure. This has been brought up a number of times in the DRK threads.

The fact that Blackblood and Enhanced Blackblood we're broken up into two different traits is ridiculous and it feels like this was just done to spread one thing out and make it seem like DRK has more traits than it functionally does. They should just be combined into one and have a new trait be provided to fill the gap.

A lot of the tweaks or additions to DRK abilities that have been put forth could easily be fit in as a new trait, for example the idea of expanding the capacity of the Blood Gauge, perfect fit for a new trait. With that as the new trait they could even keep the name of Enhanced Blackblood.

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What other suggestions have been put forth?

Most of the previous traits were baked into the spells and skills it actually changed, they only kept the passive stat gains and the new traits for stormblood.

They are not something entirely relevant, since blackblood baseline is given at the same moment a new spell is (Delirium) to give the basic functionnality of the gauge.

That doesn't mean the DRK is fixed somehow, but it's more an illusion of something that doesn't really miss, to look specifically at numbers of traits.

Welp prelim patch notes are out....no drk changes. RIP.

Yeah I might as well just not play the content in 4.1 and cancel sub now if I already know that they are not going to fix DRK until the game is near death and at that point it will be too late... They refuse to acknowledge DRKs problems as a tank to actually make it function like a tank instead of a glorified DPS... so that means I get to use that $30+ on WoW gametime card since Blood DK feels more like DRK than DRK ever did...

I'm probably won't cancel my sub with a new raid tier coming out, but I'm definately switching to paladin. Good luck y'all

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I'm probably won't cancel my sub with a new raid tier coming out, but I'm definately switching to paladin. Good luck y'all

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Do it. The more people who stop playing DRK the better then.

If they don't do anything at all not only do we need to step up the criticism (without being toxic of course) but we need to simply stop playing the job altogether.

If it's just a matter of "oh hey, look at all the changes we made to other classes DRK is lingering behind because of the work overload." That'd be fine, but they they need to tell us that. And they don't say anything at all. That's the real issue. No communication. They don't even go "oh stay tuned".

Buffs or not Ill still be playing drk once I finish my war 300 mount. Evil kitteh is to awesome to pass up :D

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

Do it. The more people who stop playing DRK the better then if they don't do anything at all.

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I agree, the only way to see changes are to stop playing and just switch to something else. Hence my post, dark is already the least run tank in savage, might as well cut that number in half. And the sooner the better, ultimate tier comes out in two weeks. Maybe they'll start listening.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I agree, the only way to see changes are to stop playing and just switch to something else. Hence my post, dark is already the least run tank in savage, might as well cut that number in half. And the sooner the better, ultimate tier comes out in two weeks. Maybe they'll start listening.

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I mean, I have little doubt they are working on changes or ideas for changes.

The problem is they don't SAY ANYTHING. And it's not just NA/EU english ppl either. The japanese forum gets no communication from them either.

Why can't they just say they are working on more changes and that it will take time? Okay that sucks but at least you're talking to us. This silence is so frustrating.

I agree, the silence makes us think that they think the class is perfect when really a significant portion of the player base thinks it’s not. Hell even tell us why they think it’s fine so we can have a discussion would be better than ignoring us outright.

Yeah, no adjustments in DRK for 4.1.

The tanker with less DPS and with less utility.

Now War can give a 8% HP Shield to entire party.

Well....Time to gear PLD cause SE won't fix DRK until 5.0 at this rate.

Welp at least DRK will be god tier in 5.0 if SE follow their precedent in tank balance...

Currently DRK is the most lacking tank of the 3, having less cooldowns while all the cooldowns it has are weaker than the other tank's counterparts.

So here's how I'd change DRK:

Souleater: remove grit requirement from absorb HP.

Abyssal drain: absorb HP made baseline but only half the absorb of a dark arts abyssal drain.

Salted earth: drain HP from every tic.

Shadow wall: additional effect: recover mp equivalent to damage received when effect wears off.

Sole survivor: rework it into a self target buff that when the DRK takes damage, heals the party for 10% of the DRKs max hp, kind of like a reverse divine veil.

Dark passenger: remove mp cost, remove base damage, make blind baseline and increase blind duration. So without dark arts it would just be a free AoE blind, with dark arts it would be a powerful AoE attack.

Dark mind: change to reduce ALL damage taken by 15%, 30% under dark arts. This would make it more in line with sheltron, where sheltron is a consistent 20~% reduction, while dark mind would jump between high/low.

Living dead: radical change, prevents all hp recovery for 10 seconds, if the DRKs hp is reduced to 1, recover full hp and mp and removes living dead effect.

With just these minor tweaks DRK would play fairly similar to how it currently does, but it's defensive kit would be far more effective.

Unsubbed see you guys in 5.0 maybe

*Sees lack of DRK changes in patch notes*
Hello darkness my old friend...............

So yes, Warrior needed adjustments, especially on Shake It Off. Though... DRK needed some adjusments too or it will fall behind the 2 Others. If there is truly no adjustments in this patch, as I think it will. There is absolutely no reason to bring a DRK in the set up, since WAR and PLD does everything better (slightly, but still) than DRK.
DRK is not unplayable, but in a Raid environnement, you most likely want to put every chance on your side to win.

What I see mandatory :

- Dark Wall on a 120 sec CD instead of 180 (to be on par with Reprisal and Sentinel)
- Adjustment on Dark Passenger (Absolutely not usable, way too much MPs for nothing great)

What I would like to see :

- Souleater need to have the HP Drain without Grit. (So we can switch between stance easier even when main tank, without losing too much sustain. Right now, DRK has the biggest penalty for switching. more MPs than PLD, WAR has no penalty)
- Dark Mind is kinda weak now that PLD can block magic.
- DRK is squishy and cannot rely always on TBN, so we need a little Defensive CD to be on par with WAR and PLD. (Role Skill are pretty much sealed)
- Optional but would be very welcome : A Self Big Heal to be on par with Clemence and Equilibrium. To not break the negativity of Living Dead, seal the skill under the debuff Walking Dead.

I'll EDIT my post if I think of something else. But that will be it for now.

I don't event understand why Square Enix don't touch the DRK....

Now, the DRK won't have any weight in a raid...

When you see that TBN give 20% HP Shield on your self OR 10% Shield on a Ally... And form what i learned, the warrior get a 8% HP Shield on everyone ? What the hell ?

For exemple, if the shield of the War is 8% of HIS max HP this is clearly insane, for calculation we suggest the war got 60k hp under his tank buff :

So 60000 x 0.08 = 4800, 4800 damage absorbed for EVERYONE, 4800 x 8 = 38400hp, This is fucking insane !

As DRK TBN make a shield of 10% of our max hp on ONE Ally that will probably turn around 5000-5400 Damage absorbed (following the gear of the DRK)

So we got a différence near 7-8 time of efficacity in favor for the War, even with the low cooldown of the DRK the comparison is nothing more than the best joke ever we can make at least 6 TBN for 1 Buff of the war, And for calculation even with the low cooldown we can protect 30k damage MAX but the war up this near 40k (More than 30% difference, and i don't talk about the fact that we absorb 5k damage for just one person on a Aoe damage if we use it for this)


Let's make an other comparison of the skill :

DRK / WAR

Target : 1 / Everyone
Quantity : 10% Max HP / 8% Max HP
Cooldown : 15 Sec / 90 Sec
Duration : 5 Sec / 15 Sec

See the problem ?

I just have a question for finishing this :

How can you explain that both the WAR and the DRK have a mitigation CD of 30% Damage but the WAR got a counter on it and it's 60 seconde less long for recharge ? You have 4 hours xD

Updated, It appears the warrior shield only scales off the hp of the player shielded and not the warrior's HP. Meaning the benefits mentioned below are only for the warrior.

Assuming this off the warriors max HP, but as a later comment mentions it doesn't specify this, and so this may only concern the warriors shield. This is particularly powerful if during a down time the warrior can go into tank stance and raise their maximum hp by 25%, making it equivalent to a 10% base increasing by 5% for each buff consumed compared to the hp on a dark knight if my assumptions are correct.

If a dark knight has x HP and a warrior also has x hp in dps stance then in tank stance the warrior will have 1.25x HP. If the warrior converts "n" buffs then they gain .04n mitigation with a .08 base multiplier. (.08+.04n)*1.25x=(.10+.05n)x

Meaning that if this turns out to be correct the shield could be anywhere between an 8% shield to 30% aoe version of the dark knight HP shield. 8% at the low end with no buff consumed out of tank stance, 30% in tank stance with all buffs consumed (likely never going to happen). Which translates at max gear to be between 4.4k shield to a 17k shield with a 15 second duration.

I also wonder about the interaction between this and TOB. Like if this will capture ToB hp or if it will consider the buff consumed first and use the base hp of the warrior, if it catches the ToB HP then that upper % is more like 36%.

We will have to see if it will actually work this way with tank stance and if it has such synergy with ToB. Of course we have the "tank stance issue" but the really useful times for this would be during 10 second intervals when nothing is targetable on the field so that there is no dps loss.

As it reads at the moment, the new Shake It Off is based on the targets max hp and not the Warriors.

Edit: Where does the idea that the barrier is based on the Warriors max hp even come from?

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Originally Posted by Alphras

As it reads at the moment, the new Shake It Off is based on the targets max hp and not the Warriors.

Edit: Where does the idea that the barrier is based on the Warriors max hp even come from?

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You are right, I read the notes and it doesn't appear to say whose maximum hp, target or warrior. I eddited in a disclaimer in my original post.

The effect "removes most all detrimental effects" has been changed to "creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage totaling 8% of maximum HP." Dispels Thrill of Battle, Inner Beast, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition, increasing damage absorbed by 4% for each effect removed. Duration: 15s
Recast time increased from 60 to 90 seconds.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

*Sees lack of DRK changes in patch notes*
Hello darkness my old friend...............

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The price we pay for having the best job quests I guess /s

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

The price we pay for having the best job quests I guess /s

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Only the ~50 chain was good. Most of the job quests suffer that it is more about the NPCs than yourself. That was the exception.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

You are right, I read the notes and it doesn't appear to say whose maximum hp, target or warrior. I eddited in a disclaimer in my original post.

The effect "removes most all detrimental effects" has been changed to "creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage totaling 8% of maximum HP." Dispels Thrill of Battle, Inner Beast, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition, increasing damage absorbed by 4% for each effect removed. Duration: 15s
Recast time increased from 60 to 90 seconds.

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Valid concern, though it does read as if it's using the WAR's HP

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

Only the ~50 chain was good. Most of the job quests suffer that it is more about the NPCs than yourself. That was the exception.

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Uh no, the 60-70 job quest is fantastic. And very much about your character once the other shoe drops in the last quest.

Greetings!
About the 4.1 patch, it seems that debate has not progressed much in the DRK's thread of the Japanese forum. (Im japanese player :cool:)

With the 4.1 patch, the whole barrier is added to the WAR.
And nothing is added/buff to the DRK.

I thought that it was necessary to Buff WAR and DRK at the same time.
Because, If only Buff either one, the other becomes useless.

What do u think about?

*Sorry not good at English. Using translation website*

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Originally Posted by TanukiSoba

Greetings!
About the 4.1 patch, it seems that debate has not progressed much in the DRK's thread of the Japanese forum. (Im japanese player :cool:)

With the 4.1 patch, the whole barrier is added to the WAR.
And nothing is added/buff to the DRK.

I thought that it was necessary to Buff WAR and DRK at the same time.
Because, If only Buff either one, the other becomes useless.

What do u think about?

*Sorry not good at English. Using translation website*

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Good translator.
What is the opinion over on the JP-side of things about how DRK is being ignored?