Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

You just can't argure with someone who wants to do the bare minimum.
Standing there watching hp bars is not an effective use of your time. Hoping the devs agree with you and remove clerics so you have an excuse to be lazy makes it even more pathetic.

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Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

I could understand if people enjoy juggling clerics but personally I find it annoying. People talk of the risk vs reward thing that clerics brings but I don't really see that either while I'm playing scholar. Might just be me but whatever.

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

I could understand if people enjoy juggling clerics but personally I find it annoying. People talk of the risk vs reward thing that clerics brings but I don't really see that either while I'm playing scholar. Might just be me but whatever.

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I imagine that remark was aimed at people who'd still refuse to DPS. Without Cleric, the go to excuse has been removed and healers not DPSing would look lazy by comparison.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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'I'm a HEALER I pay for this SUB and it is perfectly ACCEPTABLE for me to stand around and do NOTHING for the whole dungeon'

Alternative SCH version:

'I have my pet on SIC DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY JOB'

However, CS could use a revamp. That five seconds cooldown is pretty bad. I'd rather have it cost MP to toggle on and off.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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If you want to find out the true value of any class in this game, take it into Deep Dungeon solo.

Healer is kind of overpower in a way, but also imo the most complete job. Regen is an insta cast and heals for basically 100% of your entire health in seconds. Meanwhile, one insta click into Cleric stance and i'm dishing out 3-5k dmg a hit with Stone III. The DoT of Aero works especially well on top of it all along with Regen.

It feels goooooood.

That said, the cleric stance icon gets easily buried in all the buff icons during party content, and in particularly tense moments, if my finger slips .. i mean, i can't be staring at the keyboard you know? Or if i mash it twice or anything really, maybe i don't see it's still on for a few seconds because it's buried in all the icons and such, and those few seconds can get the whole party killed. Now in part it's cool that it's on me for needing to keep cool under pressure ... but at the same time,i do think that the dancing mechanic could be a bit easier to manage somehow than it is...

At the very least, these UI chances the devs have mentioned specifically for stormblood ... something ...anything to make it more obvious when i am or am not in cleric would be great....

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

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Except in a bubble that wouldn't work. I don't mind the removal (preferably overhauling instead) of cleric, so long as it comes with a drastic shift to the healing meta, with more for healers to do, and more relevance to not DPS.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

But a tanks got VIT buff still will have to stance dance, so I think the example is not complete relevant.

Moreover, in 3 healers SCH has a great advantage that it required the leaset CS switching as a result more dps output, so after CS removing I suspect you will like AST or WHM more but not SCH..haha

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I main a WAR, I barely ever stance dance, either I am on one stance as MT or another as OT. But it doesn't really diminish my returns as much as not being in the correct stance as a healer does.
Also I got my hands full in either stance as a WAR and don't really need to feel awkward or inadequate, I am self satisfied with my output. I am great at it. And most if not all times I get minimum of 3 recommends.

But as a healer ... them eyes ... EYES looking at me just standing around with EXPECTATIONS. Argh.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Except in a bubble that wouldn't work. I don't mind the removal (preferably overhauling instead) of cleric, so long as it comes with a drastic shift to the healing meta, with more for healers to do, and more relevance to not DPS.

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Aye yep, 100% agreed with that, the removal of CS and basing DPS abilities off of MND would help me no end, but I'm not sure it's actually going to make much of a difference to the 'no dps' crowd. It's easy to argue that dropping some of the difficulty in DPSing could even raise expectations and pressure on healers who aren't feeling it.

Thus the need for more logical alternatives, channeled buffs, dps abilities that have tangible benefits to both yourself and the party etc.

I'm generally in favor of giving healers more support options to fill "empty" globals rather than DPS, but there's a few pitfalls with that:

1.) %-based buffs have vastly diminishing returns on players of lower skill. A 50% damage increase on someone performing in the lowest quartile of DPS isn't going to be more beneficial to the group than if the healer was skilled, efficient, and maximizing Cleric Stance DPS.

2.) A flat numbers buff (ie "increases the damage of the next five skills by 500") is horribly wasted on DPS who know how to optimize, especially if those DPS are already using one of their own percentage-based buffs like Raging Strikes (x amount of extra damage on a Raging Strikes Fire IV would likely not even come CLOSE to the amount of damage a %-based increase would).

3.) Potency buffs might work, where a healer could give a buff that say "increases the potency of the next five spells or weapon skills by 50", but I feel like that would require some coordination on the part of the group to pull off. You don't want to buff a BLM's Umbral Ice phase or a MCH without ammo, for instance. It also wouldn't play nicely with SMN, who has pretty crap base potencies and an independent source of DPS (the pet), so there's more things to consider.

4.) Juggling the balance off buff uptime, efficacy, and healing would be tough for the developers, I'd reckon, and again highly influenced by player skill. Bad healers would have less globals for buffing, because they'd be doing extra globals to compromise for healing inefficiency. If buff timers are super short (2-3 globals), then there will be a major performance gap in good healers and bad healers like there already is. If buff timers are generous (10+ globals) then healers are still sitting around picking their wedgies when no one needs healing.

5.) How many buffs can a game have before they become a bit redundant? They'll either increase offense, defense, or an arbitrary niche that I'll call "utility" (resource regeneration buffs or recovery buffs like Reraise that could prevent a full wipe). You get a bit more mileage out of giving healers debuffs too, but eventually with as many classes that XIV hopes to have you will have overlap. And when healer utility overlaps we start to look at their other features instead to judge and exclude (see: WHM vs AST right now).

6.) Adding buffs is fun and appeals to those who prefer a more pacifist, backline role, but it's still not what makes a healer, IMO. If healing is still faceroll and boring I'm not sure adding mandatory fluff maintenance buffs is going to make people less discontent. This last one is more just personal opinion though, so take it with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes and no, lets take low level for example since people do not take a lot of damage there. People can be sitting there casting a heal every time someone takes 10 points of damage. OFC that is from being new but that is not a good healer because no one is dying. YOU ARE A BAD healer if you are sitting around doing nothing frequently, regardless of content. Do you see tanks flashing once and going afk? Do you see DPS hitting one action then afk? healers are not special that gets a free pass.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I in no way condone a healer simply doing nothing in downtime (not even in PvP. Between skirmishes, heal and shield your team. Ready up for the next fight), but I also don't believe removal or alteration of one wonky skill will encourage that either.

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/10characters

I'd say it also helps improving the enemies you face, both in their skillsets and AI.
You see that often in msq duty/fate fights where they just auto attack and rarely perform an action, only using either Fast Blade/Overpower/Heartstopper, which the latter two oddly have a 'cast bar' for them.

On Baelsar's Wall, quite a few trash mobs switch targets effectively, though I think there should be far more done to make those more engaging and dangerous for everyone.

Dpsing and shaving 5 minutes or so off the dungeon time i think is more important than reapplying stoneskin on a dps who got clipped in the middle of an aoe pull. He's not going to die, especially if the mobs die faster.
Making dungeons more difficult to heal, or trying to tweak mechanics to get more healing output will only create more problems. Unskilled healers will struggle even more. First pull of the wall for example. Extra dots going out dps and healer taking dmg, harder (not impossible) to dps, what happens? A bunch of complaining about tanks pulling the whole thing because it's harder to heal. So really all it does is serve as an excuse for healers who don't want to dps, and makes it harder on those who aren't as good.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

[...]Unskilled healers will struggle even more.[...]

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I'd say they need to get good when they can't deal with high-level dungeons that -in case my suggestion got accepted- got boosted. If they get their asses handed over at this stage, they never properly made full use of their job in the first place.

And that, mind you, applies to every role. It just is more noticable on healers and tanks.

Why would ones want to change to healer job. You have to put up with so many bad tanks and dps in partys. Also if they die from pulling to many monsters or pull to much agro from the tank and die they blame the healer and not themselves.

healers shouldn't have to kill stuff to level, they should be healing to level! get rid of healer DPS all together, shouldn't healers take an oath to do no harm? just saying...my few pennies worth.

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Originally Posted by Lawman

healers shouldn't have to kill stuff to level, they should be healing to level! get rid of healer DPS all together, shouldn't healers take an oath to do no harm? just saying...my few pennies worth.

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cnj quests would like a word with that, that suggests otherwise. (One of the early conj quests flat out tell you use cleric stance and attack basically)
Also all the healer quests require you DPS here and there.
The hall of novice healer trials?
And finally, all healers in FF have some kind of DPS tools.

I doono where people get healers only heal stuck in people head come from.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Dpsing and shaving 5 minutes or so off the dungeon time i think is more important than reapplying stoneskin on a dps who got clipped in the middle of an aoe pull. He's not going to die, especially if the mobs die faster.
Making dungeons more difficult to heal, or trying to tweak mechanics to get more healing output will only create more problems. Unskilled healers will struggle even more. First pull of the wall for example. Extra dots going out dps and healer taking dmg, harder (not impossible) to dps, what happens? A bunch of complaining about tanks pulling the whole thing because it's harder to heal. So really all it does is serve as an excuse for healers who don't want to dps, and makes it harder on those who aren't as good.

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Situation depends a lot on group makeup. Particularly with casters, large pulls with the healer focused on keeping the tank alive are quicker than small pulls where the healer can dps. Its up to the tank to see what his group is composed of and what CDs are available for each pull and pull accordingly. Healers major gameplay should be healing. That is the entire reason for the existence of the role. Its to offer an alternate gameplay. People like that style of gameplay. Many of those types of players find dpsing dreadfully boring. If dpsing was supposed to be the core part of healing they might as well just get rid of the healing role and give the Jobs interesting DPS rotations. However I am never a fan of cutting back on the variety of gameplay options. As it is the healing meta in FF14 is probably one of the most underwhelming metas as far as gameplay in just about any MMO I have played. Heals are way too powerful and as such there is massive amounts of healer downtime which is where this dpsing thing came from. From Yoshi P's responses it was never an intentional part of design. Cleric stance was for solo gameplay, not so healers would dps in dungeons.

I am sceptical your going to shave 5 minutes off a dungeon run with the healer dpsing unless the dps themselves are under performing. The healer isn't going to have 100% dps up time and their dps isn't on par with the dps classes or often the tank. As a rule my first and most important requirement for a healer is that they actually heal. Recovering from a wipe adds more time to a run than is really earned from the healer dpsing, particularly if it happens more than once. If the healer has heals properly under control then they should dps but first and foremost healing is their role. I can live with a healer not dpsing if the group is alive. I get really annoyed if a healer keeps letting people die because they are fixated on dpsing.

Plus with DF your always going to have to deal with the fact that you don't get to pick the group your given. Its kind of like cards. You get your hand and make the most of it or just fold and put up with the loss (leave penalty).

why we talkiing about DPS dungeon faster now? lol
DPS dungeon faster = get 2 SMN. nothing to do with dps healer.

not really aware we have shortage on healers
i like playing healer. pretty chill job and fast quene time. i only play SMN for DPS in dungeon because my friend plays tank/healer (even known I am better tank and just as good healer... but they are gimp on other jobs lol)

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

cnj quests would like a word with that, that suggests otherwise. ... I doono where people get healers only heal stuck in people head come from.

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I completely understand what your saying but the topic of this thread is how to convince people to be healers. With how much Healers are expected to do and then get blamed when $#!T hits the fan makes being a healer unpopular for most. Im saying to make the job less complicated to achieve better popularity. Good Healers are expected to Keep Tanks alive, Keep everyone else alive through Damage Phases, These are a given but then, to Stance Dance, DPS, than back to healing. Perhaps we should give all DPS'ers a weak Heal ability so that they can throw in heals inbetween their DPS'ing? then everyone would be working at optimal efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Situation depends a lot on group makeup. Particularly with casters, large pulls with the healer focused on keeping the tank alive are quicker than small pulls where the healer can dps. Its up to the tank to see what his group is composed of and what CDs are available for each pull and pull accordingly. Healers major gameplay should be healing. That is the entire reason for the existence ofthe role. Its to offer an alternate gameplay. People like that style of gameplay. Many of those types of players find dpsing dreadfully boring. If dpsing was supposed to be the core part of healing they might as well just get rid of the healing role and give the Jobs interesting DPS rotations. However I am never a fan of cutting back on the variety of gameplay options. As it is the healing meta in FF14 is probably one of the most underwhelming metas as far as gameplay in just about any MMO I have played. Heals are way too powerful and as such there is massive amounts of healer downtime which is where this dpsing thing came from. From Yoshi P's responses it was never an intentional part of design. Cleric stance was for solo gameplay, not so healers would dps in dungeons.

I am sceptical your going to shave 5 minutes off a dungeon run with the healer dpsing unless the dps themselves are under performing. The healer isn't going to have 100% dps up time and their dps isn't on par with the dps classes or often the tank. As a rule my first and most important requirement for a healer is that they actually heal. Recovering from a wipe adds more time to a run than is really earned from the healer dpsing, particularly if it happens more than once. If the healer has heals properly under control then they should dps but first and foremost healing is their role. I can live with a healer not dpsing if the group is alive. I get really annoyed if a healer keeps letting people die because they are fixated on dpsing.

Plus with DF your always going to have to deal with the fact that you don't get to pick the group your given. Its kind of like cards. You get your hand and make the most of it or just fold and put up with the loss (leave penalty).

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5 mins is more average, if you are talking liberty farms your more doing 15/13 mins to 13mins/11 mins. If you mean expert, 20 to 15 is pretty common. If you are talking about subpar DPS, the healer DPS is replacing the DPS in that case. This is why my whm friend told the brd to ballad her last run, First pulls and first boss she OOM so she is like ballad me ( so she can make up for the sub par DPS the brd was pulling.) Even a good smn could not carry that DPS loss enough. You are looking at more at 8-10 mins if you mean true subpar DPS ( 1.2k DPS and under as a i270) On that note, delete wide volley plz, that is the number 1 cause of suppar BRD dps. Since we are tossing out arguments like "we need to remove cleric so cleric does not cause wipes" well removing wife volley is in the same boat because it is too hard to pass DPS checks with a wide volley spaming BRD.

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Originally Posted by Lawman

I completely understand what your saying but the topic of this thread is how to convince people to be healers. With how much Healers are expected to do and then get blamed when $#!T hits the fan makes being a healer unpopular for most. Im saying to make the job less complicated to achieve better popularity. Good Healers are expected to Keep Tanks alive, Keep everyone else alive through Damage Phases, These are a given but then, to Stance Dance, DPS, than back to healing. Perhaps we should give all DPS'ers a weak Heal ability so that they can throw in heals inbetween their DPS'ing? then everyone would be working at optimal efficiency.

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Healers are the easiest to blame because people dead = bad healer. Taking out clearic stance will not make more people magically play it nor change the blame game. We need more people play tanks anyway.

Stance dancing is literally one of my favorite things about this game is the main reason why I love playing healer, especially WHM, so much. I agree it could be more intuitive, responsive, and have better UI attached, but it definitely needs to remain a core part of playing healer in this game and should be expected.

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Originally Posted by Lawman

healers shouldn't have to kill stuff to level, they should be healing to level! get rid of healer DPS all together, shouldn't healers take an oath to do no harm? just saying...my few pennies worth.

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And what do you propose more confident/skilled healers do inplace of the DPS they generally end up doing?

I recorded and pulled apart a few runs on the first pull of Sohm Ahl Hard a couple of days back, as noted earlier in the thread, it takes me 3 personal GCDs for the initial double pack pull, the rest can be safely healed by the fairy. That pack took an average of just under a minute to kill.

I'd love for dungeons to actually stretch my ability to thump out HPS rainbows and pull of twitch clutch saves, but the game in it's current form simply doesn't support that outside of the first month or two of each coil/savage raid tier.

Maybe SE could add a regular daily dungeon roulette that's the equivalent of today's Expert, with Expert itself being tuned more akin to SCOB savage aka utterly unfair. Imagine going back to the days of early release and late beta where crowd control was a thing ;)

God I'd love that <3

Why not just give them some exclusive mount or something cosmetic like that. Then lock it behind a certain requirement like how the tank mounts were.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

cnj quests would like a word with that, that suggests otherwise. (One of the early conj quests flat out tell you use cleric stance and attack basically)
Also all the healer quests require you DPS here and there.
The hall of novice healer trials?
And finally, all healers in FF have some kind of DPS tools.

I doono where people get healers only heal stuck in people head come from.

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Previous generation MMO's (pre 2010) had far more clear cut roles in the holy trinity, healers were more of a stat buff/heal class with mild crowd control while being useless on the offensive side.

And I still find it a bad move to point out on the Novice Hall thing, where it clearly says that they may can use some offensive spells. It's their choice if they want to - And if they don't, no loss on me.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Stance dancing is literally one of my favorite things about this game is the main reason why I love playing healer, especially WHM, so much.

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This. I'm in the same boat. I main WHM and love it mainly because I love seeing how much damage I can dish out while running dungeons. People underestimate healer dps. A lot of people just assume its not worth the effort but checking the numbers I usually do about 70ish% of an actual dps class on average. And before you say "Oh those are just bad dps", no I actually outdps the "bad" dps as sad as that is. I really hope they don't do too much to change cleric stance as I like the way it works as is.

The people saying "Oh just remove it and let damage scale off MND". I kind of feel like it would be way too OP if they did that. My worst fear is if they DO do something like that, that they'll nerf healer damage into the ground to compensate.

I would think that if they made healer's have more buffing capabilities, then it would help get rid of this whole healer DPS argument going around. It might just create a new argument about how they are not buffing properly, but what would this game be if people didn't complain about healers?

My thought is this, back when I played EQ and even WoW healers had an average of 3-5 buffs they could give everyone. In EQ Shamans had certain buffs along the lines of an AST's balance that would only last 30 seconds to a minute or two. So a Shaman as the example would have to balance the buffs with the healing needed. This is something that could be easily implement especially with AST, where more buffs could be added, but without the RNG and keeping the timers aligned with the current durations in FFXIV. EQ and even WoW also had more poison(s)/disease/curses that needed to be cleansed. EQ in particular had certain skills that only healer's had that were a necessity for certain raids as they would prevent enrage or cancel/reduce the mechanics needed. Just a few examples that could help alleviate the down time of healers in FFXIV.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't imagine it would eliminate the cry babies issues, but it would help to reduce the amount of downtime a healer has if the buffs had short enough timers. Outside of the buffs, the only other feasible fix that would come from the developers would be to change the way mobs fight. For example adding in simple debuff mechanics, or simply make them do more damage.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Situation depends a lot on group makeup. Particularly with casters, large pulls with the healer focused on keeping the tank alive are quicker than small pulls where the healer can dps. Its up to the tank to see what his group is composed of and what CDs are available for each pull and pull accordingly. Healers major gameplay should be healing. That is the entire reason for the existence of the role. Its to offer an alternate gameplay. People like that style of gameplay. Many of those types of players find dpsing dreadfully boring. If dpsing was supposed to be the core part of healing they might as well just get rid of the healing role and give the Jobs interesting DPS rotations. However I am never a fan of cutting back on the variety of gameplay options. As it is the healing meta in FF14 is probably one of the most underwhelming metas as far as gameplay in just about any MMO I have played. Heals are way too powerful and as such there is massive amounts of healer downtime which is where this dpsing thing came from. From Yoshi P's responses it was never an intentional part of design. Cleric stance was for solo gameplay, not so healers would dps in dungeons.

I am sceptical your going to shave 5 minutes off a dungeon run with the healer dpsing unless the dps themselves are under performing. The healer isn't going to have 100% dps up time and their dps isn't on par with the dps classes or often the tank. As a rule my first and most important requirement for a healer is that they actually heal. Recovering from a wipe adds more time to a run than is really earned from the healer dpsing, particularly if it happens more than once. If the healer has heals properly under control then they should dps but first and foremost healing is their role. I can live with a healer not dpsing if the group is alive. I get really annoyed if a healer keeps letting people die because they are fixated on dpsing.

Plus with DF your always going to have to deal with the fact that you don't get to pick the group your given. Its kind of like cards. You get your hand and make the most of it or just fold and put up with the loss (leave penalty).

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I heal expert roulette all the time. I don't even care what the party make up is, or how much mobs the tanks pull, I'm dpsing. Divine seal regen medica 2 clerics swiftcast holy PoM aero3 holy assize holy hooooooolllyyyy clerics top off tank then depending on where the mobs are at I'll either go back to dps or prepare for the next pull. I prefer bigger pulls as a healer because it's more enjoyable to dps bigger groups. It's the same amount of work each pull regardless of how many mobs, but smaller pulls means more pulls means my mana doesn't go as far. All dps at 60 have decent aoe so there's very few reasons to do small pulls. Lets saaaay i shave 15 seconds off of each pull over a healer not dpsing. 2 pulls between each boss is 6 pulls ish depending on the dungeon 1.5 minutes plus dpsing during bosses. 3 minutes saved? Ish? But the pulls can only get so big, so even if a healer 100% heals the tank is pulling the same amount but now everyones aoes (even the healer) does more damage
But yeah, keeping a tank alive is easy, so you might as well dps.
But it's funny that you say people find dpsing boring. Spamming cure 2 to keep a tank topped off is mind numbing, not to mention it makes tanks using cooldowns completely pointless.
If a healer wants to actually be entertained by pressing buttons, dpsing is the way to go right now. Unless the gameplay changes completely, dps as healer will always be faster and more entertaining.
"Ooh tank took a hit cure."
"Ooh tank took a hit cure."
"Ooh tank took a hit cure."
"Ooh tank took a hit cure."
and you compare healer dps to tanks and other dps. No a healer won't do as much as a good tank or a good dps but " DF is like cards" and let's be honest. .. we usually get dealt garbage quite often so a good healer will more often then not be out dpsing somebody.
I like how you use both sides of that coin though. You say a good healer won't save 5 minutes because the dps and tank in your example are good. If my dps and tank are good my dpsing as healer won't be a problem because people won't die to stupid. Pick one. :)

There is quite literally nothing you can do to the game play of a healer to attract non-healers. They're not playing healers because they want to play the "fiesty damage" class or the "tough tank"; their picks are often based on image long before they even play the game. Healers are marketed as kind nice people with flurfy pink and white outfits. This image is so deeply set in the minds of the player base, that no amount of skill fiddling will ever even be noticed.

The only way you can engineer a shift is through appearances and I don't mean glamour will fix it, though that's a big part. SE would have to put a male healer into the story with a dark background, moody growling demeanor, and glam that's better described as edgy than flurfy; ie. those things that attract people to the tank/dps classes (other than game play) would need to be shifted to the healer classes; eg. give SAM the pink & red with feathers outfit and see how many still want to play that. ;)

Well, you have to remember the reason two DPS jobs were considered for SB as YoshiP mentioned the % dps/healer/tank balance didn't really change at-all from ARR. There was just more a shift from PLD>DRK and WHM>AST over time. The balance isn't likely to change anytime soon, DPS is always prevalent in any MMO.

Although he did mention more rewards in the future to encouarge playing the blue and green jobs. People like myself have all three tank mounts doing natural end-game content, you didn't really have to go out of your way if you main or sub the role. Adding further rewards like tanking or even healing beyond 500 full party instances would be a way to keep kick starting such campaigns.

I was also in the court of healer mains that didn't really want another job either considering how it took almost half an expansion to get Diurnal Astro to where it is today.

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Originally Posted by FeliciaTheSecond

This. I'm in the same boat. I main WHM and love it mainly because I love seeing how much damage I can dish out while running dungeons.

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You would probably enjoy Chloromancer in Rift (and possibly Discipline priest in WoW). Which is fine. But, IMO, dps healer should be one FLAVOR of healer - not the entire meta of healers in the entire game. We already suffer from a lack of variety across healers. Let's advocate for killing multiple birds with one stone. Ways to make healing more interesting:

- Encounters outside of Savage/EX that require more than mindless dps spam while occasionally hitting a heal button.
- Rework healer damage so that laggy CS swapping is no longer necessary
- Much-needed distinction between healers in much the same way we have different DPS jobs (healing through damage, melee, HoT-based, shield-based, healer/buffer, single-target, ground-field based, etc)

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Originally Posted by Capriana

Remove the need to cleric stance.

Have the damage scale of MIND similar to how tanks got the VIT buff.
And before you argue the healers will become OP, I doubt it, because their main job is still healing and the only possible candidate for OP is SCH, I think. And they have pets to micro manage so things are already tough for them. Plus others don't really have strong damage dealing spells except holy and gravity and they can think of something to balance them.

God knows I, my self, dread playing my SCH because of stance dancing. Remove that and I will play the bazoonka out of my SCH and possibly have it become my main.

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WE FINALLY GOT DAMAGE OFF MND. YES! Even though I Love new Bahamut, but I will rock SCH comes SB time. Now we will see if my predictions were true or not regarding more people playing healer and also DPSing more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naunet

You would probably enjoy Chloromancer in Rift

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That was my bread and butter in RIFT raiding. There's a noticeable lack of "DPS to heal" in FFXIV outside of Bloodbath.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

That was my bread and butter in RIFT raiding. There's a noticeable lack of "DPS to heal" in FFXIV outside of Bloodbath.

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That's because it's a royal pain to balance. Even Rift took the better part of a year or so to do that, and even then, it seems like all that resulted is more general heals rather than attacks for healing.