Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

The problem is Wuk is a good idea but so badly executed i could scream.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Wuk herself isn't even really the problem, just a symptom of it.

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I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping up the cringe by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Even if some of the choices are... interesting in DT.

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The credits song was very off-putting.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping up the cringe by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

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Maybe the writers were hoping that peace and friendship could overcome their bad writing?

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

Maybe the writers were hoping that peace and friendship could overcome their bad writing?

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I mean if the power of friendship can save the universe then it can surely also save something as mundane as a continent, right?...right...? :')

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping the cringe up by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

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I think this is what I can agree with, her character itself isn't entirely the issue. I believe it's the pacing and writing itself. Being at the level 96-ish part of the story I think watching her grow into her role has only solidified my fondness for her. Honestly I think the characters with the least amount of depth come from the other claimants. They just sort of throw a highly generic trope at them that drives their entire personality regardless of how absolutely insane their actions might seem to make the point. Even with some of them having revealed their reasons, it just feels like a stretch IMO.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I mean if the power of friendship can save the universe then it can surely also save something as mundane as a continent, right?...right...? :')

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To be fair, it wasn't just the power of friendship. It was also the powers of "notice me" and "I want to beat you to death or die trying".

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

To be fair, it wasn't just the power of friendship. It was also the powers of "notice me" and "I want to beat you to death or die trying".

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I mean we all want peace and love and happiness but I'm sure that doesn't contradict wanting just a little bit of carnage. /s :^)

I didn't mind Wuk that much, since her japanese VA is actually good.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

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This is the real take. Wuk is a victim of awful writing, a symptom, not the cause.

She could have been a compelling character, there are so many other directions they could have gone, but instead we got a Mary Sue, and I DO NOT use those words lightly, I know it's a term that gets thrown around a lot willy nilly but here it is only appropriate.

She is a like a black hole that the plot is orbiting, everything get sucked in and becomes about her. When she faces a problem, a solution is dropped into her lap within minutes. Her views and beliefs are NEVER questioned. She NEVER struggles, she NEVER fails, she is NEVER wrong. Her flaws are.. being afraid of heights (? Immediately forgotten in that one cutscene, if you know, you know), motion sickness?? Kind of like how every other YA audience self insert character has the "flaw" of.. being a little bit clumsy. Wow.

Worse though is how she affects the characters around her. EVERYONE loves her, EVERYONE supports her, EVERYONE is just.. so, SO proud of her omigosh she has grown SO much, we are told. Constantly told told told, never shown. But she is exactly the same as she was in the beginning. Tell me, what did she learn? That the true meaning of peace is... everyone living together in happiness? Wow, riveting. No one ever thought of that. But anyway, if you don't support, love and cherish her dearly, you are either evil or will change your mind.

Everything is about her, even if she is not on screen. The rest of the cast get NOTHING to work with. And Koana.... He actually grew, learned, changed his perspective. And yet..

Spoilers:

He sacrificed his own chances of winning FOR HER and at the ascension ceremony this game has the GALL to act like... like he should so grateful for his dear, generous sister giving him this opportunity he clearly doesn't deserve. Watching that crowd dote on Wuk while hemming and hawing at the thought of him being co-leader... was gross. Gross, gross writing. And of course it was HER idea, this incredibly obvious solution of co-leading. Only Wuk Lamat, the kindest, most generous, peacefulest person ever, could come up with this idea.

Frankly infuriating. Imagine a different plot, where she DID struggle, where she was questioned, ridiculed for her naive ideas. Imagine she learned through suffering. Imagine she came to you for advice, imagine you REALLY were a mentor and not a... fanboy? They make it seem like my character is in love with her or something, it's gross!

Remember Alphinaud in HW? He had just had EVERYTHING taken from him, everything just fell apart right in front of him, he is lost, exiled, has only you and Tataru to rely on. He thought he had all the answer but was humbled, and through that he became ready to learn, from you, from Estinien, from Ysayle. To me, this was some of the best character development in the MSQ.

What makes the spoiler part worse is that it was shown earlier in game that Koana was in

fact quite popular with the people and then all of a sudden he's on two-heads level of popularity? Wtaf?!

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This is pretty much what we are getting

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/28...62f0972c86.jpg

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Doing the "City of Silence" quest and I want to stab my head repeatedly with an ice pick.

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Originally Posted by Windfire

What makes the spoiler part worse is that it was shown earlier in game that Koana was in

fact quite popular with the people and then all of a sudden he's on two-heads level of popularity? Wtaf?!

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The is zero consistency in the writing. The funniest to me was

Spoilers for 3rd zone:

When Papa Wuk gets kidnapped, seemingly mere seconds after spilling his deepest secrets to us, a random person he just met and we see a lizard hiding. WE do, the player, our WoL has no idea. Yet the kidnappers act like our character knew what had happened for some reason. Do the writers understand the difference between what the character knows and what the audience knows? Did anyone proofread this?

I started skipping the story after a certain point. The script is so bad it's at a fanfiction level.

As I had feared, Ishikawa's touch was sorely needed to keep the game afloat. It was good as long as it lasted. Time to move on to other games now.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

*If you don't like her then just skip the story you paid for*
Again, I think they are only pretending to like her, because of their va or because they are furries. There is actually nothing to like about this character.

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This is what you become when you are online too much. you question what people are telling you because you cant agree with them.

lots of people like rouge one. i think its poorly thought out nostalgia bait with a nice 20 minute battle scene at the end. That doesn't mean people are lying when they say they like it. Calm down Bruh.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

The is zero consistency in the writing. The funniest to me was

Spoilers for 3rd zone:

When Papa Wuk gets kidnapped, seemingly mere seconds after spilling his deepest secrets to us, a random person he just met and we see a lizard hiding. WE do, the player, our WoL has no idea. Yet the kidnappers act like our character knew what had happened for some reason. Do the writers understand the difference between what the character knows and what the audience knows? Did anyone proofread this?

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Well clearly the answer to that is

they were just assuming we saw it through the Echo

Just don't ask about how they know about that.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

This is what you become when you are online too much. you question what people are telling you because you cant agree with them.

lots of people like rouge one. i think its poorly thought out nostalgia bait with a nice 20 minute battle scene at the end. That doesn't mean people are lying when they say they like it. Calm down Bruh.

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I mean, pretending to like her is genuinely the lesser evil.

ACTUALLY liking her is far, far more worrying. The person you quoted is actually trying to be nice.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

The is zero consistency in the writing. The funniest to me was

Spoilers for 3rd zone:

When Papa Wuk gets kidnapped, seemingly mere seconds after spilling his deepest secrets to us, a random person he just met and we see a lizard hiding. WE do, the player, our WoL has no idea. Yet the kidnappers act like our character knew what had happened for some reason. Do the writers understand the difference between what the character knows and what the audience knows? Did anyone proofread this?

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I thought this was referring to:

Papa Wuk telling us that he is in fact Papa Wuk, and not the kidnapping. Of course I could be wrong, I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I mean, pretending to like her is genuinely the lesser evil.

ACTUALLY liking her is far, far more worrying. The person you quoted is actually trying to be nice.

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No, treating her like she is the worst thing since sliced hitler is whats worrying.
Got a little further, she seems like "lyse done better" to me. Thats not saying much , lyse was terrible. But no. its not reasonable, or charitable to tell every person who says they like wuk gets some sexual kick out of it. Its "Cringe" and really weird to say it is.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

No, treating her like she is the worst thing since sliced hitler is whats worrying.
Got a little further, she seems like "lyse done better" to me. Thats not saying much , lyse was terrible. But no. its not reasonable, or charitable to tell every person who says they like wuk gets some sexual kick out of it. Its "Cringe" and really weird to say it is.

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I don't think being vocal about how disappointed we are after ShB and EW is "worrying". FF14 always excelled in its story. This time, it fell flat. Some people may still like it, but some people like all sorts of weird stuff so that's not really a valid argument. Reviews on Steam are quite bad exactly because of this character, as well as the script and MSQ pace as a whole.

Also, I still don't think the person you quoted was being mean. They were just being honest. Realistically, there are only three situations under which someone may like Wuk Lamat:

1) They know nothing about good writing;
2) They are delusional;
3) Furries.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

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Yep, said it perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

He sacrificed his own chances of winning FOR HER and at the ascension ceremony this game has the GALL to act like... like he should so grateful for his dear, generous sister giving him this opportunity he clearly doesn't deserve. Watching that crowd dote on Wuk while hemming and hawing at the thought of him being co-leader... was gross. Gross, gross writing. And of course it was HER idea, this incredibly obvious solution of co-leading. Only Wuk Lamat, the kindest, most generous, peacefulest person ever, could come up with this idea.

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This part angered me so much as well, especially in the context of what had conspired just before that. I just couldn't believe it.

(Spoiler 7th keystone challenge)

They clearly solved the problem together, each bringing their respective strength to the table. Without Wuk they wouldn't have been able to talk to the villagers and figure out the problem but it was Koana who actualls solved it with his science.

His contribution was in no way inferior and yet what he took from the events was that Wuk is "clearly superior and more fit to rule", even though without him she'd have failed just as hard as he would have without her.

The villagers wouldn't have put any trust in her words when they returned, if he hadn't come up with a solution to the soil problem.

So it was not only really disappointing that the villagers' praise wasn't given to both of them, but also that the narrative didn't question his giving up at all. Nobody of the cast encouraged him or told him his efforts were worth just as much.

We were just left with the message that his forfeiting was clearly the right choice.

I would have respected it if it was purely tactical to defeat the shade. As in: both are equally acknowledged but they know in order to beat the trial one of them has to give up so they can join forces. And then they could have decided that she has higher chances of winning because the WoL's on her side or something but they'd have agreed here and there (in a Meaningful Cutscene(TM)) they'll rule together as siblings.

It really bothered me how the narrative constantly dunked on the idea of advancement being inherently worse than "uniting the people with friendship" and keeping traditions.

Ironically in the Wild West themed world, when you visit the Miqo'te tribe, they have a short but much more nuanced and mature discussion of this topic than Wuk Lamat ever had during her whole arc.

Granted, after Koana has learned his lesson the benefits of his science are acknowledged and his speech about progress while preserving cultural heritage is good character growth.

But he was one side of the coin: good at one thing (science), blind to the other (people). Wuk was the opposite: blind to science, good at people. Both are needed for a good rule (which luckily is the story's conclusion at least).

But imo this means Wuk should also have had the same reality check that Koana needed, only in reverse.

Because in the end, her ideals couldn't protect the people against every threat. If all people stood together in harmony that wouldn't magically equip them with tools to defend themselves against all kinds of enemies, as the story literally shows later on. It's Koana's science that's used for defenses.

If the story had given both of them equal learning moments and led them together like that, their dynamic would have been much more enjoyable, while giving Wuk so much more depth.

But this insistence that "happy people" >>>>> "everything else, no matter how reasonable" bolstered by insipid platitudes really killed her characterisation.

Even when the plot decides we can move on, it still centres around her and it's infuriating.

Spoilers below for Level 95 Quest(s):

The first subplot of Shoalaani has you chasing down a crook who stole Namikka (Wuk Lammat's NURSE MAID) bracelet. A woman who we have interacted with once, maybe twice, and was boasting out loud to EVERYONE about the fabulous gift she got from Wuk Lamat.

AND we get saddled with an oranged haired peace-lover who we rescue from being kidnapped only to follow his asinine plot to get the town Sheriff arrested which works. The writers get to do a nice little, epic moment cutscene for a non-character while we just stand around and clap. I'd care more if it was fleshed out better.

On top of that but this plot point was already visited with Koana doing the EXACT SAME THING but in order to draw out the bandits. This isn't foreshadowing, this is poor, unfiltered and uncritical writing.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

No, treating her like she is the worst thing since sliced hitler is whats worrying.
Got a little further, she seems like "lyse done better" to me. Thats not saying much , lyse was terrible. But no. its not reasonable, or charitable to tell every person who says they like wuk gets some sexual kick out of it. Its "Cringe" and really weird to say it is.

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She currently has X-Pac level of heat right now. Some heat on a character is good, it generates talk and gives good options on how to take the character in the future.

X-Pac heat means you are terrible, we do not ever want to see you since you waste our time whenever you are on screen. The fact that they turned their flagship character for DT to that is just plain bad writing. Not to mention that she is even generating this large amount of heat should be really concerning.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I don't think being vocal about how disappointed we are after ShB and EW is "worrying". FF14 always excelled in its story. This time, it fell flat. Some people may still like it, but some people like all sorts of weird stuff so that's not really a valid argument. Reviews on Steam are quite bad exactly because of this character, as well as the script and MSQ pace as a whole.

Also, I still don't think the person you quoted was being mean. They were just being honest. Realistically, there are only three situations under which someone may like Wuk Lemat:

1) They know nothing about good writing;
2) They are delusional;
3) Furries.

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Oh, excuse me, I had no idea we had the arbiter of "good writing" here in the forums.

Looking over the reviews, some complaints aren't even about wuk, they are about thje graphical update, but even the negative reveiws dont treat her as poorly as yall are. You are allowed to not like a character, She is the centerpiece of the expac and thats fine if it doesnt click. What really bothers me, is exactly what you are doing right now. ANyone who likes wuk is either stupid or horny. That feels like a WILD take to me. Its not nice. its not diplomatic. its eliteist garbage.
"its actually better if they are lying about it, because duplicity is better than being stupid." All of this, from top to bottom, is utter nonsense.

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Originally Posted by arstoka

Even when the plot decides we can move on, it still centres around her and it's infuriating.

Spoilers below for Level 95 Quest(s):

The first subplot of Shoalaani has you chasing down a crook who stole Namikka (Wuk Lammat's NURSE MAID) bracelet. A woman who we have interacted with once, maybe twice, and was boasting out loud to EVERYONE about the fabulous gift she got from Wuk Lamat.

AND we get saddled with an oranged haired peace-lover who we rescue from being kidnapped only to follow his asinine plot to get the town Sheriff arrested which works. The writers get to do a nice little, epic moment cutscene for a non-character while we just stand around and clap. I'd care more if it was fleshed out better.

On top of that but this plot point was already visited with Koana doing the EXACT SAME THING but in order to draw out the bandits. This isn't foreshadowing, this is poor, unfiltered and uncritical writing.

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The plot was super silly filler but I actually appreciated that we got to see

Erenville being an actual, active character instead of just a cynical background prop. He is so much fun and his personality, as it turns out, is actually interesting. Plus he is smart, strategic and self-sufficient, which was a big contrast to the continuous clumsy "we need to make sure she doesn't fall into a cenote" babysitting shtick Wuk Lamat was afflicted with.
(And that cutscene when he kicked over that barrel with the stolen goods was kinda badass.)

And more importantly, we were actively involved. We actually cooperated with our companion NPC and solved the problem together instead of just being a retainer.
I felt so much more engaged during that episode and had actual adventurer feelings, whereas I had nothing of that sort from level 90 to 96.

Giving another character room to develop and unfold really made that padding plot a lot more enjoyable to me than anything that had come before, even though it was completely pointless. If they had shifted the focus to other characters more frequently I'm sure it would have helped the story a lot.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

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Couldn't have put it better.

Another thing that pissed me off was

(spoiler 3rd zone)

When Bakool Ja Ja instantly turned around into a fast ally (whose trust Wuk Lamat has earned, somehow). The reveal of how he was groomed and pressured into the role was actually the first time the MSQ made me feel anything at all, it was genuinely pretty sad and messed up to learn. And yet my WoL has nothing but harsh words for him. Meanwhile, Wuk Lamat, saint that she is, acts forgiving. Because of course she does, only she can be kind and good.

Never before has the WoL felt so railroaded. I'm starting to dislike my own character.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

Oh, excuse me, I had no idea we had the arbiter of "good writing" here in the forums.

Looking over the reviews, some complaints aren't even about wuk, they are about thje graphical update, but even the negative reveiws dont treat her as poorly as yall are. You are allowed to not like a character, She is the centerpiece of the expac and thats fine if it doesnt click. What really bothers me, is exactly what you are doing right now. ANyone who likes wuk is either stupid or horny. That feels like a WILD take to me. Its not nice. its not diplomatic. its eliteist garbage. and its actually better if they are lying about it, because duplicity is better than being stupid. All of this, from top to bottom, is utter nonsense.

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There is really no need to be an "arbiter of good writing".
You don't need to be J.R.R. Tolkien to realise that DT's writing is amateurish at best. Anyone who is 16+ and decently literate can spot the inconsistencies and the banalities of it.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

The plot was super silly filler but I actually appreciated that we got to see

Erenville being an actual, active character instead of just a cynical background prop. He is so much fun and his personality, as it turns out, is actually interesting. Plus he is smart, strategic and self-sufficient, which was a big contrast to the continuous clumsy "we need to make sure she doesn't fall into a cenote" babysitting shtick Wuk Lamat was afflicted with.
(And that cutscene when he kicked over that barrel with the stolen goods was kinda badass.)

And more importantly, we were actively involved. We actually cooperated with our companion NPC and solved the problem together instead of just being a retainer.
I felt so much more engaged during that episode and had actual adventurer feelings, whereas I had nothing of that sort from level 90 to 96.

Giving another character room to develop and unfold really made that padding plot a lot more enjoyable to me than anything that had come before, even though it was completely pointless. If they had shifted the focus to other characters more frequently I'm sure it would have helped the story a lot.

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I 100% agree with you. I felt like I could breathe again when we got to spend some time with them. A genuinely enjoyable experience for however short lived it was. I still have my gripes about the other NPCs involved but, regardless, I wish there was more one-on-one adventuring with them.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Another thing that pissed me off was

(spoiler 3rd zone)

When Bakool Ja Ja instantly turned around into a fast ally (whose trust Wuk Lamat has earned, somehow). The reveal of how he was groomed and pressured into the role was actually the first time the MSQ made me feel anything at all, it was genuinely pretty sad and messed up to learn. And yet my WoL has nothing but harsh words for him. Meanwhile, Wuk Lamat, saint that she is, acts forgiving. Because of course she does, only she can be kind and good.

Never before has the WoL felt so railroaded. I'm starting to dislike my own character.

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So much this, haha!

I couldn't believe that I actually felt more empathy and sympathy for

Bakool Ja Ja and his struggles, who I had despised before because he was so cartoonish, than I had ever felt for Wuk up to this point. I'm glad they did give him an actual backstory but if 20 minutes of story can make you like the ex-bully more than your MC, that you have tried to establish for hours, then your writing is doing something wrong.

The first time where I think they did a really good job with Wuk was when (spoiler after rite of succession)

her father died and she cried and griefed over his corpse. This really made me feel for her. But it shouldn't have taken this long and they also weren't really able to recreate those feelings again afterwards. (Though I haven't finished the story yet.)

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Originally Posted by CosmoBabylonia

She currently has X-Pac level of heat right now. Some heat on a character is good, it generates talk and gives good options on how to take the character in the future.

X-Pac heat means you are terrible, we do not ever want to see you since you waste our time whenever you are on screen. The fact that they turned their flagship character for DT to that is just plain bad writing. Not to mention that she is even generating this large amount of heat should be really concerning.

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Maybe, But this also just seems to be what the forum does. Like the healer strike thing, Its Almost completely located in the forums, and in the forums only. Other than I think Xenos, I don't think I've seen anyone mention it beyond "hey here is a weird thing the forum is doing right now". Like, as i was scrolling through the post, someone said they actively slammed their firsts on their desks because they hate wuk so much. and they got like, 20 likes or something. Its just strange. Like i said, i don't even care that much about wuk. at this current moment. She exists in a state of mild interest, mostly because I like political dramas, and want to see where this dawn servant thing goes.

It all just stinks of bad faith and hype.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

Maybe, But this also just seems to be what the forum does. Like the healer strike thing, Its Almost completely located in the forums, and in the forums only. Other than I think Xenos, I don't think I've seen anyone mention it beyond "hey here is a weird thing the forum is doing right now". Like, as i was scrolling through the post, someone said they actively slammed their firsts on their desks because they hate wuk so much. and they got like, 20 likes or something. Its just strange. Like i said, i don't even care that much about wuk. at this current moment. She exists in a state of mild interest, mostly because I like political dramas, and want to see where this dawn servant thing goes.

It all just stinks of bad faith and hype.

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Were you around when Lyse happened?

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Originally Posted by arstoka

I 100% agree with you. I felt like I could breathe again when we got to spend some time with them. A genuinely enjoyable experience for however short lived it was. I still have my gripes about the other NPCs involved but, regardless, I wish there was more one-on-one adventuring with them.

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(I agree. They are definitely what saves the entire experience for me and the reason why I even kept going with the MSQ to begin with. And whenever there is a group split I'm hoping I can go with them, even though it happens so rarely. I really hope they'll stay around for good and get more character development in the future. They have the most potential imo.

Also, yes to the one-on-one adventuring! Sorry G'raha but I have a new favourite travel buddy.)

Either Remake the Character, better Personality not being an Annoying Zoomer, and get a Voice Actress that knows how to do the Job.
Or get rid of the Character all together in post 7.0 Story. i dont agree that this Furry replaces me the WoL as the Main Character of the Story, dont Start being like World of Warcraft were the WoL is a bystander/Camera man/woman.

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Originally Posted by CosmoBabylonia

Were you around when Lyse happened?

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I was around but not terribly active, I was trudging through ARR before i burned out and came back like two years later. While i was playing most people seemed more concerned about the mechanical state of the game. but That was probably after 4.0

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

Like the healer strike thing, Its Almost completely located in the forums, and in the forums only. Other than I think Xenos, I don't think I've seen anyone mention it beyond "hey here is a weird thing the forum is doing right now".

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Or that could just be you.

[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Or that could just be you.

[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]

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I dont really know why you think Forum drama being reported on gaming news sites mean anything. You can find similar articles About all sorts of drama about other games, Its treated like a novelty.
I don't mean that to disparage anyone who feels strongly about it. Im Coming here as an outsider who wanted to ask what the deal is with some of the arbitrary viper glam exclusions, But found this instead. And like every other person who plays this game to much. Found a reason to get mad on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

I was around but not terribly active, I was trudging through ARR before i burned out and came back like two years later. While i was playing most people seemed more concerned about the mechanical state of the game. but That was probably after 4.0

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Lyse generated atomic levels of seething during Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Sonoskay

I dont really know why you think Forum drama being reported on gaming news sites mean anything. You can find similar articles About all sorts of drama about other games, Its treated like a novelty.
I don't mean that to disparage anyone who feels strongly about it. Im Coming here as an outsider who wanted to ask what the deal is with some of the arbitrary viper glam exclusions, But found this instead. And like every other person who plays this game to much. Found a reason to get mad on the forums.

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Moving the goalposts, such a typical tactic for people critical of feedback on the forums. You claimed it didn't reach out of the forums, I've shown you clearly it did. I'm not interesting in moving into a conversation over assumption about "what that means".

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Moving the goalposts, such a typical tactic for people critical of feedback on the forums. You claimed it didn't reach out of the forums, I've shown you clearly it did. I'm not interesting in moving into a conversation over assumption about "what that means".

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Okay. Considering Im the one who brought it up, and Did indeed mean its wider impact on the game ,and how *This* forum in particular seems to blow things out of proportion rather than how many people did or didn't hear about the strike. After all, I clearly heard about it. That wasn't my point. But You can have the win. it doesnt even matter to my overall point

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Originally Posted by Tethan

When Bakool Ja Ja instantly turned around into a fast ally (whose trust Wuk Lamat has earned, somehow). The reveal of how he was groomed and pressured into the role was actually the first time the MSQ made me feel anything at all, it was genuinely pretty sad and messed up to learn. And yet my WoL has nothing but harsh words for him. Meanwhile, Wuk Lamat, saint that she is, acts forgiving. Because of course she does, only she can be kind and good.

Never before has the WoL felt so railroaded. I'm starting to dislike my own character.

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This character is probably among the top ten writing in Dawn Trail, if you count the ranking from bottom up. The art of subtle writing is it's opaque and clever enough that it can hide the real truth from the reader. But in hindsight, the readers should be able to go back and piece together the vague hints and see that the conclusion still make sense. This character has nothing of the sort, and the 180 degree is just a complete arse-pull. The attempt is so fake and force that it make it hard for me to believe whoever behind it is a professional writer doing it for a living.

The fact that Bakool Ja Ja is a much more compelling and a better written character in his literal 15 minutes of screentime compared to the "Main Protagonist" of this Expansion and her 25+ hours of screentime is NASTY work

In fact of the Four Claimants, Wuk Lamat is by far the weakest and worst written Character and that's just sad lmfao

Like if we were given a choice, I'd back the war addict over her if I knew I was getting this