Locked out of the Duty Finder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oghmanyte

Clearly you don't understand the internet very well if you think people won't wait 20 minutes to troll the DF.

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And how many times can they try to do that? 3 times and they are stuck with a 30 minute lock out. All this hypothetical what ifs, trolls, etc. is utter nonsense. They can get maybe 1 person every 90 minutes, not exactly lots of lulz. And then they earn themselves a blacklist and maybe even a GM report. Good luck keeping that up for very long.

Have I got a strike, yes, because people are still learning the new rules. Have I been locked out for 30 minutes, nope. When I get the strike, I tell the people from my FC, my party, or whoever else not to do that, and they don't and they probably won't do it again either. And everyone else should be doing the same, the social reinforcement from collective penalty is making this known to all very quickly. The ready check is used a lot more now, and queues are much smoother now. Click commence and go. The only time I've seen DF fishing trolling is right before the reset. Trolls will be trolls, but they are not stupid and they will troll only the easy stuff. Click commence 15 times to get into ST is only happening like at 5 minutes before the penalty reset.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

All this hypothetical what ifs, trolls, etc. is utter nonsense.

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You're utter dismissal of everyone's concerns is nonsense. People will troll even if its just once a day so they don't get the penalty. Some don't even care and will gladly penalize themselves 3 times to screw with other people. If you want people to take you seriously you should start taking other people a little more seriously. You're always so dismissive of everyone else's viewpoints and concerns. I don't know why you feel the need this many pages in to continue to brow beat every new poster over the head with the same argument you made 20 pages ago. People know what you think. You've made it very clear. You literally gain nothing by telling every new poster how wrong they are. Let people express their opinions and move on with your life. You're just trolling every single person who posts in this thread and are continuously dismissive of any dissenting opinion.

You're opinion isn't the only correct one. Let people post their opinions so square can see them and move on. Your opinion has been well noted and you're clearly not changing any minds.

If anyone from the Community team is even still reading this thread, I hope they keep the DF lockout penalty exactly as it is right now for when Final CT is released in patch 2.5. It will actually be fun to queue for Final CT, something which used to be a hassle and aggravation until the DF lockout penalty was implemented.

Same issue with us, 4 members in our FC, cueing up for Pretorium, and getting lockout cus some other person not of our party is withdrawing,

this IS a bug, cus we should not be penalized, in fact, I had ALREADY clicked commence and yet got locked out, how is that right? It's not, so, it's broken, so it needs to be fixed.

Everyone shouldn't be penalized because others want to be trolls. Its not right. I'm trying to complete the main storyline and I can't because someone is being immature. The lockout is being abused. If SE can't make it so only the person who withdrew is penalized then it should be removed. It cannot stay like this, SE cannot afford to have a vital feature of the game hijacked like this. Fix it or remove it. If it stays and SE does do anything to prevent this then FFXIV will die very quickly,.

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Originally Posted by Quade

...and getting lockout cus some other person not of our party is withdrawing,
....

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People not in you party can not withdraw for you and give you a penalty. When you queue for ST you will likely get 1 or 2 withdraw from people not your party and you will get no strikes or get locked out. Someone in your party is lying to cover their butts and pretending it is a bug.

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Originally Posted by Zorch

.. If it stays and SE does do anything to prevent this then FFXIV will die very quickly,.

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This is just a hyperbole. If the DF abusers, fishers, and trolls are all gone, it will be a happy day in Eorzea, but the fact of the matter is they are all still here, just that they can't make nearly at the amount of trouble they used to do as far as the DF queuing is concerned. It has been a great improvement. But for giggles try queuing ST right before the daily reset, you will get 15 withdraws before you commence. The trolls will troll because they can, and they will abuse anything they can get to.

-------------

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

...Let people express their opinions ... are continuously dismissive of any dissenting opinion.

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I never tell anyone to shut up. They can come up with all sorts of nonsensical excuses and hypotheticals which do not hold water in realistic use cases. It like the global warming deniers coming up with bogus misinterpretation of localized events that have no basis. I am only demonstrating that these odd ball corner cases are not justification to remove the penalty or the collective penalty. They can come up with even more strange and less likely events and there will be no end to them, just like there is no end to the digits of pi, but whatever they think they added, is just an order of magnitude less significant, just like the millionth and 1st digit of pi. All it shows is the creativity of trolls trying to game the system.

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Originally Posted by Quade

Same issue with us, 4 members in our FC, cueing up for Pretorium, and getting lockout cus some other person not of our party is withdrawing,

this IS a bug, cus we should not be penalized, in fact, I had ALREADY clicked commence and yet got locked out, how is that right? It's not, so, it's broken, so it needs to be fixed.

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Someone outside of your party can't get you a penalty. If you got one, someone in your party withdrew.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorch

Everyone shouldn't be penalized because others want to be trolls. Its not right. I'm trying to complete the main storyline and I can't because someone is being immature. The lockout is being abused. If SE can't make it so only the person who withdrew is penalized then it should be removed. It cannot stay like this, SE cannot afford to have a vital feature of the game hijacked like this. Fix it or remove it. If it stays and SE does do anything to prevent this then FFXIV will die very quickly,.

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I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. How is the lockout "being abused"? If you're in a party with someone that withdraws from the queue twice, then you should probably not queue with them again.

The alarmist statement tacked onto the end doesn't exactly help you gain credibility here.

SE you should not penalize your players for withdrawing or missing a queue. It is very unnecessary and turns off players. The penalty for being afk should be you missed your queue and have to wait again. You should use the system that Blizzard uses in wow its very similar to the frontlines system that is already in place in FFXIV.

Everyone who hit commence is enters in the dungeon no matter what. Say if you had 22/24 on CT, 1 person withdrew and 1 was afk. Those 22 people are sent in the zone and the 2 are filled with the in progress feature which you make mandatory like frontlines. There problem solved with little or no penalties.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

...
Everyone who hit commence is enters in the dungeon no matter what. Say if you had 22/24 on CT, 1 person withdrew and 1 was afk. Those 22 people are sent in the zone and the 2 are filled with the in progress....

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And aliance C is has lost both tanks. Good luck making progress in CT. Better yet it is a 4-man and you and the other dps are the lonely pair in dungeon. The tank and healer just fishing and trolling the DF just wasted your queue time. Woo Hoo. This will work out great!

And don't tell me this won't happen. People with be on voice chat with their friends and timing the queue pops so that can DF into the same instance so that they can help their friends and get the daily bonus and game the commendations all at the same time. The incentive to game the system and take for granted all the other players is already all there. The penalty for withdraw is long overdue.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And aliance C is has lost both tanks. Good luck making progress in CT. Better yet it is a 4-man and you and the other dps are the lonely pair in dungeon. The tank and healer just fishing and trolling the DF just wasted your queue time. Woo Hoo. This will work out great!

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Have you played a game that has this system in place? Well I have and it works great.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Have you played a game that has this system in place? Well I have and it works great.

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Work great for whom? For you while everyone else gets screwed. So much seeing the tree and missing the forest. How about everyone be nice and have the common sense and common courtesy to do everything within your power to be able to click commence when it pops? Why is this such a hard concept.

Instead of trying to be greedy, always taking from everyone else, how about doing something for the common good, for the good of the community and all the other players out there.

everyone needs to just stop arguing with NyarukoW, it's obvious that he/she has a case of "I'm right, you're wrong and I'm not listening" syndrome going on. think about it, he/she has gone as far as to call anyone arguing against this ridiculous collective punishment as greedy.

people should just come up with suggestions as alternatives for this.
my suggestion is to put it back to the way it was before where nobody queueing up could see the progress at all.
they couldnt even tell if they were getting into a in progress dungeon or a fresh one.
I truly believe this would get rid of most of the trolls since most of them to begin with were impatient players trying to get a last boss on duty roulette

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

everyone needs to just stop arguing with NyarukoW, it's obvious that he/she has a case of "I'm right, you're wrong and I'm not listening" syndrome going on. think about it, he/she has gone as far as to call anyone arguing against this ridiculous collective punishment as greedy.

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It's because people miss the point she's making with that. Stop and think for a second:

Queuing for CT or ST or certain other trials, have you noticed significantly less "player has withdrawn" spam? If you say yes, the system is working as intended. If you say no, your server cluster has never had a problem and you likely only play Healer and/or Tank which are usually the culprits of said withdrawn spam (DPS has insanely long queues, rarely would you find them the ones spamming withdraw when they would have to requeue for ANOTHER 20-130min+.)

So her point isn't so much that people are "greedy", it's the fact that OVERALL, this change did more good than harm.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's because people miss the point she's making with that. Stop and think for a second:

Queuing for CT or ST or certain other trials, have you noticed significantly less "player has withdrawn" spam? If you say yes, the system is working as intended. If you say no, your server cluster has never had a problem and you likely only play Healer and/or Tank which are usually the culprits of said withdrawn spam (DPS has insanely long queues, rarely would you find them the ones spamming withdraw when they would have to requeue for ANOTHER 20-130min+.)

So her point isn't so much that people are "greedy", it's the fact that OVERALL, this change did more good than harm.

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Seems about the same to me, CT is usually 22-23 waiting for that one guy to click that is afk. This happens a few times before it goes through nothing has really changed. So the changes didn't really do much but punish players who happen to go afk, get a drink or went to the bathroom ect.

Many people have posted better alternatives to the system that was implemented. As in not showing in progress runs, letting the queue go through with everyone that clicked ect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So her point isn't so much that people are "greedy", it's the fact that OVERALL, this change did more good than harm.

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and many of us disagree with this. it isn't a fact that it did more good than harm when it hurts players and will not help the community. it will not help the community as a whole if it causes players to have animosity toward eachother which this will do in a game like FFXIV:ARR.

this change would not have been necessary if they had not added the progress to the duty card. that is what started the major problem to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Seems about the same to me, CT is usually 22-23 waiting for that one guy to click that is afk. This happens a few times before it goes through nothing has really changed. So the changes didn't really do much but punish players who happen to go afk, get a drink or went to the bathroom ect.

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then there is this.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

letting the queue go through with everyone that clicked ect.

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this is the best alternative I think I have seen besides putting things back to not showing progress

Throwing my lot in: as a DPS, it takes SO LONG for a queue to pop, that the likelyhood of me being there for the exact instant it finally pops is rather slim. I'm not gonna refrain from getting a drink, grabbing food, answering the door, using the bathroom, etc for an hour and a half just to watch for a queue pop. So the penalty is just adding insult to injury when you miss it and get locked out from even requeuing for ANOTHER half hour. Heck, one time I couldn't accept because I got into an unskippable cutscene right before it popped.

The NON-COMPLETELY-ABSURD method of dealing with fishing is to just remove the status of what you're queuing into so noone knows until they accept.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

The NON-COMPLETELY-ABSURD method of dealing with fishing is to just remove the status of what you're queuing into so noone knows until they accept.

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totally agree with this

What I see a lot of in this thread is people trying to rationalize why whatever it was they were doing is somehow more important/worthy of consideration than the 3, 7 or 23 people who have been waiting patiently to get into an instance. They're attempting to justify why they should be entitled to make all of those people wait on them without any sort of repercussion.

You wouldn't call up your boss and ask them to start the meeting five minutes late because well you stopped at Starbucks on the way to work and how were you supposed to know there would be a long line, would you? I certainly hope not. This is the same principle. When you sign up to participate in a group activity, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are ready to take part when the time comes. If you aren't, then you should be prepared to accept whatever the decided penalty for being late or missing out is, especially if it is your fault due to poor planning. Simple as that.

Except the timeout for them is 45 seconds. If that's such a downer, then SE can lower that too for all I care. 30 seconds difference or so doesn't help anyway when people show up at the door as it pops, or with long unskippable cutscenes, etc.

But, hey, guess what- even with the current penalty, they're still waiting! So your point is totally moot. Not that it's an 'us vs them' issue to start with. The issue is the logical fallacy that SE created by trying to fix a simple problem with a complex, yet very poorly-constructed bandage.

The thing is...how frequently do you miss a DF queue in the span of 24 hours (out of maybe, the 6-7 hours a an average sub plays) because of outside reasons?.

If you miss a queue once, then this isn't hurting you, not one bit. In the case of hunts, you'd have to be in a party anyway to get a reasonable amount of credit, meaning you'd need to drop out of DF. Now if it punished you for missing the queue the first time, that'd be an issue. I personally wouldn't even do 3 or 4 star crafting unless I know nothing is going to interrupt me (which means no DF, my personal needs are taken care of, etc etc)

Another thing someone suggested is that the party would start up with only 3/7...now the problem is that if you're missing an essential class, you're gonna be thrown into a instance lacking a tank or healer (which is mostly the case when it comes to these sort of queues)...nor can you expect everyone to be overgearred to make up for that loss.

How frequently it's missed is also moot.

Penalizing people for not sitting there, doing nothing but staring at a screen for 15-120+ minutes waiting for a queue is a terrible method of gating. Especially when there's a much more effective solution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

How frequently it's missed is also moot.

Penalizing people for not sitting there, doing nothing but staring at a screen for 15-120+ minutes waiting for a queue is a terrible method of gating. Especially when there's a much more effective solution.

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Your excessive use of hyperbole is astounding.

Case one: three strikes... Not one... DUH
Case two: "doing nothing"... you aren't expected to stand still doing nothing, but you are expected to take responsibility for your ability to accept your queue.

I'm not using hyperbole at all.

Can't craft, or you'll miss your queue (unless you like trashing items to do so)
Can't quest, or you might get into an unskippable cutscene and miss your queue.
Can't have a life outside the game, or something might come up and miss your queue.
Can't have a bladder, or you might have to empty it and miss your queue.

So yeah. Do fates (must be solo too), farm, or do nothing. Options are pretty limited for 'being responsible' in your words.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

I'm not using hyperbole at all.

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Sure, let's see how true that is.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Can't craft, or you'll miss your queue (unless you like trashing items to do so)

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May not be able to do high risk synths, but why are you even trying anything high risk after the first 5 or so min of being in queue? Plenty if low risk, easy to finish synths that still make Gil. Hyperbole? Check.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Can't quest, or you might get into an unskippable cutscene and miss your queue.

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How many of these un-skippable do you run into on a daily basis? Surely not more then 3. Hyperbole? Check.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Can't have a life outside the game, or something might come up and miss your queue.

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Why are you even logged in when you are participating in "life outside the game" Hyperbole? Check.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Can't have a bladder, or you might have to empty it and miss your queue.

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If you are missing the queue for this reason more then 3 times in 24 hours, you may want to consult a physician.

Seriously, take responsibility for your actions, or the game will make you... And rightfully so, as you are affecting 3-23 other people by them.

Your definition of hyperbole is skewed. My statements are all meant to be taken literally.

It's the combination of all these things. And this is all still moot because the whole reason the system is in place can be fixed by simply not showing how far the dungeon has progressed. And -again-, the current system doesn't stop these "3-23" people from losing 45 seconds (boo-hoo).

Why you're white-knighting such a flawed concept is beyond my ability to fathom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Your definition of hyperbole is skewed. My statements are all meant to be taken literally.

It's the combination of all these things. And this is all still moot because the whole reason the system is in place can be fixed by simply not showing how far the dungeon has progressed. And -again-, the current system doesn't stop these "3-23" people from losing 45 seconds (boo-hoo).

Why you're white-knighting such a flawed concept is beyond my ability to fathom.

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Well, I proved where your statements are false and exaggerated, which is what a hyperbole is....

And have you ever stopped to think that maybe they implemented it this way so they could keep the "in progress" there for those who are legitimately trying to help friends? Or maybe that fishing wasn't the only thing they wanted to curb?

Again, they're not exaggerated or sarcastic - both of which are what makes a hyperbole. You do any of these things, things that all humans do and shouldn't be restricted by the game, you are highly likely to miss your queue.

They can still keep in-progress. Just don't -show- that's it's in progress. Because "Helping friends" would require you to pre-emptively know that a spot needs to be filled anyway, and therefore wouldn't need the progress shown to do so. With the current system, there's a chance regardless that they'll pop a queue with the wrong party and get locked out. So it's redundant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

I'm not using hyperbole at all.

Can't craft, or you'll miss your queue (unless you like trashing items to do so)
Can't quest, or you might get into an unskippable cutscene and miss your queue.
Can't have a life outside the game, or something might come up and miss your queue.
Can't have a bladder, or you might have to empty it and miss your queue.

So yeah. Do fates (must be solo too), farm, or do nothing. Options are pretty limited for 'being responsible' in your words.

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I craft while my DF is up
I do random solo quests
I have a wife and kids agro me while DF is up
I go pee with DF up

I am not sure how this affects your queue if you are a DPS, as I am. I have never been locked out yet. I have gotten 2 strikes, at most, and I charged 50k for that as I was crafting something for someone else.

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Originally Posted by Rath

I craft while my DF is up
I do random solo quests
I have a wife and kids agro me while DF is up
I go pee with DF up

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So do I, but sometimes these things cause you to miss your queue. And you shouldn't be penalized for that, especially when there's a more efficient way to fix it.

I feel like a broken record.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Again, they're not exaggerated or sarcastic - both of which are what makes a hyperbole. You do any of these things, things that all humans do and shouldn't be restricted by the game, you are highly likely to miss your queue.

They can still keep in-progress. Just don't -show- that's it's in progress. Because "Helping friends" would require you to pre-emptively know that a spot needs to be filled anyway, and therefore wouldn't need the progress shown to do so. With the current system, there's a chance regardless that they'll pop a queue with the wrong party and get locked out. So it's redundant.

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I already broke it down for you. In plain language... I didn't resort to ad homim attacks like this:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

white-knighting

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Nor am I proving myself to be selfish like this:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

(boo-hoo

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Answer me this, since the update, how many half hour penaltys have you ate? I took 3, when I was testing how this system worked, the day of the patch. Since then? None.

Queue time? On ct/st 300% improvement. On Expert roulette 100-150% improvement. I only queue bard unless with full FC party's.

Here's an ad homim for ya... Only fools and fishers don't like this system.

Not wasting any more posts on you...

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

You're still missing the point. Removing shown progress would keep the same results. -without being morally transgressive- to legitimate players who aren't fishing. Touche.

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It is much easier for the legitimate player to find their friends' in progress run with the item shown on the placard.

SE may have implemented it this way to do more then just prevent fishing, but also to promote paying attention to the game. Helping people realize that when their actions are preventing others from enjoying the game, that they should re-examine their priorities.

One.

You're still missing the point. Removing shown progress would keep the same results. -without being morally transgressive- to legitimate players who aren't fishing.

And it's not 'much easier', because like I -already- said, they'd have to know beforehand and have a chance to get locked out with the current system.

Also I'd go on about how 'white-knighting' is simply a synonym of 'defending', but it's irrelevant and you probably wouldn't understand that either.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And aliance C is has lost both tanks. Good luck making progress in CT. Better yet it is a 4-man and you and the other dps are the lonely pair in dungeon. The tank and healer just fishing and trolling the DF just wasted your queue time. Woo Hoo. This will work out great!

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Well... they can seek replacements before taking on the boss. IDK how many times we've lost (or even kicked) a player in a dungeon and trudged forward through the trash mobs to the next boss area while seeking replacements. Heck... I've even sat there and duoed mobs in some 4-man's waiting for replacements. Seen groups finish bosses in both 4 and 8-man runs while a couple people short because of deaths or accidental lockouts (my BLM and a PLD finished SV HM just the other night because healer went down and DRG died). Although, progress will be slower... but when you are still completing the run in around half the allotted time, is it really that much of an inconvenience? Progress is still progress... just maybe not speed run progress, but if you are still able to finish and get your shiny item or tomes, are you really suffering much? Think about it... a run that reserves 60-90 minutes that you complete in 30 or less with a decent group winds up taking you 35 or maybe 40 because you slowed down a bit while seeking a replacement or two? Good Grief...

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

So do I, but sometimes these things cause you to miss your queue. And you shouldn't be penalized for that, especially when there's a more efficient way to fix it.

I feel like a broken record.

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If these things are causing you to miss your queue 3 times within a day, then maybe, you should use that 30 minutes to:
Finish your important crafts
Do the quests you want done that you do not want to skip CS on
Do the things you should be doing in real life, instead of playing a game
Take a good long number 2 break!

As you obviously would need to afk in the dungeon anyways, and likely just get kicked for it. I like this system, I have not seen more then 2 withdrawn party members in a row since this was implemented. I saw upwards of 10 almost every single time my party did not include the tanks and healers needed before we queued.

And -yet again- missing the point. With a different system we can have the same effect but without the completely ludicrous timeout.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

And -yet again- missing the point. With a different system we can have the same effect but without the completely ludicrous timeout.

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I don't think many people would find a 30-minute penalty after withdrawing/timing-out three times over the course of a 24-hour period to be "ludicrous".

If you're in a party and someone else withdrew, penalizing you, that's maybe a separate issue that needs adjusting. But if an individual player is consistently reaching that limit, then they are precisely the sort of problematic player that this system is designed to help flush out. It's designed to discourage queue failures. Withdrawing should be a last resort, not something that happens as a matter of course, since every withdrawal hurts other players in the queue.

Queue failures still happen. Less often, sure, but again there are much less obstructive ways of doing it so fishers can't constantly be popping.

It's ludicrous because it's completely unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Queue failures still happen. Less often, sure, but again there are much less obstructive ways of doing it so fishers can't constantly be popping.

It's ludicrous because it's completely unnecessary.

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The issue isn't only with fishers. The issue is also with inconsiderate people. For example, people who are in a queue and then decide "oh, I guess I'll start doing some high-level crafts that I can't afford to exit out of while I wait" because they think that withdrawing from the queue has no consequence anyway -- that their crafting is more important than the other people waiting. This penalty is designed to make every withdrawal have a sort of cost, so that people think of it as more of a big deal. It's a way of encouraging good behaviour by punishing behaviour that's counter-productive to the smooth-running of the queue system.

If there are additional ways they can solve the fishing problem, might as well do that too. But this is also trying to encourage people to stop being self-centered when other people are waiting on them so they too can start the duty.

If they hadn't queued then it wouldn't have popped anyway. So no loss.

Besides that, 45 seconds and 30minutes is a big difference. So what you're saying is SE should lower the countdown timer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

If they hadn't queued then it wouldn't have popped anyway. So no loss.

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Really? Who is they? If you didn't queue there will plenty of other players who would have queued. If the fishers and trolls didn't queue there will still be plenty of normal players that queue. No loss to whom? This kind of statement is totally self-centered. When you are on the DF or PF you are asking/begging for others players to join you to play, not the other way around. You should have the common sense and common courtesy to be ready to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Besides that, 45 seconds and 30minutes is a big difference.

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It is a big difference. The 45 second transaction time for getting matched players to go is a cost imposed on the whole system. If player can click go in 20 seconds or less it would be better for everyone. The 30 minutes penalty can not increase the transaction cost, if it gets people to be on the ball and not withdraw it will only improve and reduce the transaction time to be less than 45 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

So what you're saying is SE should lower the countdown timer.

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You obviously have no understanding for queuing theory or how a system can be efficient in processing transactions. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M/G/k_queue

And it is well know this kind of stuff are are hard problems. But this much should be obvious. Setting the countdown time to infinity will guarantee successful queue every time, but the queue will never move, and setting countdown timer to 0 will get you really fast transaction times of nothing but failed queues. The optimal count down time is at tip of saddle point in between 0 and infinity, but I seriously doubt SE is going to set it to be some 41.0053632 secs based on some seriously complex statistical model, but they probably did pick 45 seconds after careful deliberation. They know full well you can't just increase transaction time to 60 seconds without incurring more system penalty, nor do you just lower it and create more queue timeout/withdraw failures.

Nyaraku. We know what you think. The other posters know what you think. Square knows what you think. There's over 20 pages of your opinion here. Everyone's got it. Walk away and let it go. The horse is dead. You aren't adding anything worth while to this thread anymore by saying it over and over and over and over again.

Just let it go. You've said enough.