Your thoughts on the direction of this game?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I only heard bad things about Vanilla WoW. "Nothing to do for like 6 months to a year, one raid"

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If you just want to kill something and get some gears,you should play Diablo, not an MMORPG,

MMO is about social interaction ,adventures, do something with some people

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Originally Posted by WeiShan

If you just want to kill something and get some gears,you should play Diablo, not an MMORPG,

MMO is about social interaction ,adventures, do something with some people

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MMOs are about the first part as much as they are the 2nd.

Killing stuff and advancing your self and your guild is the whole concept of what makes a mmo a mmo and not a rpg.

People who want to do it solo/lowman should go play Diablo that would be a statement I agree on.

MMORPG

First part is MMO that describes the network structure!
With Massively Multiplayer Online (Game) is ment to be on the internet (compared to network games back then) and with many other players (not AI characters - best examples are shooter games - fighting against MANY others)

Secund part describes the genre, in our case its RPG!
With Role Play (Game) is ment character advance and world interaction (Talking with NPC and Questing, beeing the Hero and so on - classic RPG style)

You can play Solo in a MMO, because even when soloing there are many other players on same world. In Fact in a RPG the main focus is soloing, because interacting does not mean you have to form groups!
In the Nature of RPG is that you often form Groups because Adventure and Storyline, but thats the difference between Singleplayer and Multiplayer, its on you and how you feel like!

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

I thought it was obvious when pretty much only one group of 8/2302902039203 has cleared savage mode. Btw, that divisor should be apparent exaggeration, but I guess I should make it clear for some folk.

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Oh yeah. That was totally my intent. I was just so serious about that post.
I'm being incredibly clear right now.

I play FF14AAR since Release and still like it. But a lot of what was implemented in Patch 2.2 and 2.3 is not really something I can enjoy because there is too much grinding and RNG behind it locking me out or making me wait endlessly to get it.

Fishing - ridiculous requirements for overmelding and gear and very strong RNG, fish get away even with dream stats and it is all luck.

Dyable AF gear - another big joke from SE. Outdated Darklight gear was changed so you can just dye it. But the even more obsolete AF gear now needs absurd requirements, just for the looks?

CT2 and new Level 70 dungeons - absurdly easy for the items/tomes you can get from it.

Hunt - won't say much about it, don't like it that much and it favors those who invest all their time in it by a lot, if done casually you have nothing from it (weekly and daily hunt objectives). By the time you have 750 seals together for ONE armour item, the new patch with Ilevel > 110 will be there. Complete fail imo besides the other problems that come with hunting (mobs not immune after spawn and ninja killed in under a minute, mob not visible if too many participiants). Oh one thing, SE seems to be 100% immune against User Feedback since they threaten us yet AGAIN with rare FATES as quest objectives for the Hunt. Will they ever learn that this is no time sink or whatever their intention is but that it is just boring as hell?

Sightseeing - Implemented sadly before the NPC that is supposed to do a Weather Forecast and it is plain RNG, you can't do anything by yourself and depend on Weather that changes randomly. I am stuck since days for the last of the first 20 locations because I NEVER get cloudy weather in Gridania. Oh the Joy!

Choccobo levelling - absurd to hide it behind an FC house and FC garden plots. In my FC, I am the only one with a Level 10 Choccobo so you can guess how high the interest is to grow a Thavnair onion. This should have been implemented together with personal housing and not ahead of it. The patch is out since over a month and my birdie is still Level 10. One onion costs 6,5 millions on Ragnarok. O_o

Deysnthesis - the biggest joke of all recent implementations. I would really like to get some of the Level 75 tools but this is an absurd grind feast and it costs ridiculous amounts of GIL to proceed. And heavy RNG factor included. Destroying 5 items in a row with a 90% chance to succeed, yeah right. And from Level 70 on I need mats that cost me 50.000 GIL for ONE item. Or farm FATES till my head explodes and buy them from the Great company. Both options suck. And getting 0,01% progress from an item that costs me 50.000 GIL and harvesting unspoiled nodes to craft it is not really satisfying lol.

Coil 2 and RNG - just like with the 1st installment of Coil, it happens again. No matter how often I beat T6, I never see an item for my class. I was ilevel 90 in Coil before entering T2 and I am now iLevel 103 before entering T8 and in 2-3 weeks, I will be completely decked in i110 gear - but not from Coil but from stupid CT oil and hunting seals I use for sand. Great endgame challenge! I want loot from the hardest stuff I do but the RNG in Coil loot was never to my favor. And it is a joke that they still did not implement a Training mode where you do not get loot but can help other groups out if they face problems with certain mechanics. Everyone is inside their static and nobody helps anybody. Closed shops everywhere you look.

Normally, if you play much, you should have an advantage over players who don't play as much as you do. But since everything is paired with RNG and lockouts, you can play as much as you want and still end in getting nothing or not more than others who had more luck although they invested far less time than you did. RNG with ultra low chances and heavy usage of FATES for everything is what will make me unsub at some stage if things do not change.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

Normally, if you play much, you should have an advantage over players who don't play as much as you do.

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This is true - Yoshida is against this though. He said numerous times his design philosophy is so people who aren't playing the game and join years later can easily catch up and not have any gaps between them and people who played consistently for 6 years.

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Originally Posted by WeiShan

If you just want to kill something and get some gears,you should play Diablo, not an MMORPG,

MMO is about social interaction ,adventures, do something with some people

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My illustration was Vanilla WoW was *exactly* like how FFXIV is right now.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Oh yeah. That was totally my intent. I was just so serious about that post.
I'm being incredibly clear right now.

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I realized that with your type setting the first time. You're obviously having problems now though.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Man I forgot we were all working instead of playing a video game.

Peoples concept of the value of time is so wonky these days.

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Yeah I consider explaining fight mechanics to the fortieth random person I get grouped up with to be work. Stop being lazy and look it up yourself instead of having everything handed to you by more determined players.

I didn't mind the lock outs we had in FFXI when it was only for 1 day to 3 days at max. 1 week lock outs are so dumb. really do feel like im doing the same thing after every patch. what ever happen to having good hard boss fights where you would have to use all of you skills to take them down like using Slow or Para ect. take AV in FFXI that took years to be able to be taken down. in FFXIV coil 2 was done in a week or so. getting gear in this game takes little to no effort to get anything. This game is tiny hope the new zones we get a huge I would love for it to take me a good 15mins plus to get two 1 end of a zone if not more. and less teleports. I think they need to remove the Freely teleporting to zones out of the game, return the teleport system we had in FFXI

1. FFXI's lockouts were much worse than the lockouts we currently have in FFXIV. Don't forget that in FFXIV you're only locked out of coil if you actually beat the dungeon, and you can spam CT until you get the item you want. Lockouts in FFXI were applied the moment you entered an area. And this isn't even considering the lockouts behind the King's system.

2. AV is a horrible example of challenging content. First, stuff gets killed fast in FFXIV because, like I mentioned above, you can spam the content until you beat it. You couldn't spam AV in FFXI. Pair the inability to spam AV with the ridiculously obscure mechanics of the fight and you have your explanation why AV took so long before a legitimate kill appeared.

3. You don't like that we can teleport everywhere? Then don't ****ing use them. Don't force the entire playerbase to rely on a teleportation system where only WHM or /WHM could move around freely.

As for the actual topic of this discussion. I'm greatly disliking that they're putting so much things behind a grind (chocobo raising, DoH/DoL i70 and i75 tools, glamours) or implementing restrictions on what our characters can do (desynthesis). If I had to make a bet I'd say that the FFXI team is behind these.

The other big thing is how the old content is getting outdated. There's little to no reason to do the first Coil and the Ex fights are heading in that direction too. They need to give players a good reason to keep doing this content so it remains a relevant option.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

1. FFXI's lockouts were much worse than the lockouts we currently have in FFXIV\

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Guessing this is sarcasm. If something has a daily lockout (JP Midnight), if you did it before JP midnight you can literally do it back to back even if it ticks over to the refresh period (JP midnight) - In XIV, you'll still receive your lockout if you do x and it ticks over. For example if you enter Circus Tower 20 minutes before and didn't get your item last week, but it hits the refresh timer while you're inside, that counts for your new weekly lockout, not last weeks. That is actually worse than XI's. Let's also not forget, XI had a content style where you'd cycle content and content systems retained use..unlike XIV's where Coil is the only progressive content and is on a weekly lockout.

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AV is a horrible example of challenging content

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So is citing Savage Coil or Coil 2 (Team Jump Rope isn't really challenging.)

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If I had to make a bet I'd say that the FFXI team is behind these.

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You'd lose that bet, since the XI team is actually introducing new concepts and even content systems in some of their monthly updates..compared to XIV that hasn't expanded much since its last year's release.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Guessing this is sarcasm. If something has a daily lockout (JP Midnight), if you did it before JP midnight you can literally do it back to back even if it ticks over to the refresh period (JP midnight) - In XIV, you'll still receive your lockout if you do x and it ticks over. For example if you enter Circus Tower 20 minutes before and didn't get your item last week, but it hits the refresh timer while you're inside, that counts for your new weekly lockout, not last weeks. That is actually worse than XI's. Let's also not forget, XI had a content style where you'd cycle content and content systems retained use..unlike XIV's where Coil is the only progressive content and is on a weekly lockout.

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God, you do this over and over again. Get this through your thick skull already: you posting an example of FFXI being "better" does not invalidate all my examples where FFXI was "worse". Even the example you use is ridiculously extreme and can be easily countered with "If you get your CT item right before the reset you can get your next CT item in a matter of minutes". Compare that to all the lockout systems of FFXI that I mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So is citing Savage Coil or Coil 2 (Team Jump Rope isn't really challenging.)

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Oh really? And what exactly is challenging? You like to put FFXI on a pedestal, but difficulty in that game was for the most part merely rng. You may not consider "Team Jump Rope" challenging, but it's still well above the challenge that existed in FFXI. FFXI didn't really have much in the "skillful play" department.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

You'd lose that bet, since the XI team is actually introducing new concepts and even content systems in some of their monthly updates..compared to XIV that hasn't expanded much since its last year's release.

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And who is the judge of that? You? If you have proven anything around here is that you're not objective with pretty much anything when it comes to FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

That is actually worse than XI's.

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Yeah, but can be argued either way looking at how you both put it. Counting spawns and inability to claim HNMs as a lockout would have to take the cake for me, though. I camped Khim for like 6 months to get a haut and it took a year after the PLD ahead of me to get a ring from KB; don't forget 99% of the community was pretty much locked out of this content just by design. If you only needed king camps you were still locked out from attempting a claim for a week. I guess it depends on how you define lockouts in both games and still have to factor in drop rates.

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

Yeah, but can be argued either way looking at how you both put it. Counting spawns and inability to claim HNMs as a lockout would have to take the cake for me, though. I camped Khim for like 6 months to get a haut and it took a year after the PLD ahead of me to get a ring from KB; don't forget 99% of the community was pretty much locked out of this content just by design. If you only needed king camps you were still locked out from attempting a claim for a week. I guess it depends on how you define lockouts in both games and still have to factor in drop rates.

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So many poor Monks never got their black belt. :(

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

-Tried to spin around-.

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CT has no weekly loot restriction atm. ST does though and if you get your item before reset at any time you can get your new item again unless it ticks over, which isn't an extreme example at all because some people try to play the system last minute, you'll get a new lockout for that week rather than last week's item and this week's item.

How is me going into Dynamis 20 minutes before the daily lockout and going in immediately again after JP midnight ticks over worse? You never explained that. You yourself said it was worse, I didn't say it was better, I stated XIV's was worse in comparsion because it actually is. You seem to confuse tiered content with lockout - Einherjar for example is tiered content, you're only locked out of the main chamber until you beat the others.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So many poor Monks never got their black belt. :(

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i was one of those monks...................................

http://www.elle.com/cm/elle/images/3...ggifs_01_1.gif

Forever lockouts and end-game community divide.

I'm not sure that XI should really be the measuring stick we are using for the content in this game. There were things that were worse and things that were better, but even at its peak XI barely boasted a true playerbase of 500k actively playing subscribers. This game seems to be heading back in that direction with a lot of the systems being implemented. It's like SE isn't comfortable with a large playerbase and they want to go back to a lower, more manageable number so they add systems that are exclusive to a low population by design.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So many poor Monks never got their black belt. :(

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Yeah. For most people it wasn't even a lockout; it was just a wall they weren't allowed to climb over (unless they paid like Mexicans). I did have a belt, though. My first HNM LS had a ridiculous amount of MNKs and we tried to gear them out for Bahamut burns.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

CT has no weekly loot restriction atm.

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For the love of god. If you're going to be a smart ass I should point out that there is no CT, but rather a LotA.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

How is me going into Dynamis 20 minutes before the daily lockout and going in immediately again after JP midnight ticks over worse? You never explained that. You yourself said it was worse, I didn't say it was better, I stated XIV's was worse in comparsion because it actually is. You seem to confuse tiered content with lockout - Einherjar for example is tiered content, you're only locked out of the main chamber until you beat the others.

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Yes, lets pretend that for many years Dynamis (and many other content) didn't have 72 hour lockouts. Because if your argument is: "Dynamis doesn't work like that nowadays!" I'll respond with "BCoB and LotA doesn't work like that now either!".

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm not sure that XI should really be the measuring stick we are using for the content in this game. There were things that were worse and things that were better, but even at its peak XI barely boasted a true playerbase of 500k actively playing subscribers. This game seems to be heading back in that direction with a lot of the systems being implemented. It's like SE isn't comfortable with a large playerbase and they want to go back to a lower, more manageable number so they add systems that are exclusive to a low population by design.

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I'd say that the problem is more that a lot of people that want FFXI stuff in FFXIV spend their days whining on the forums and SE is getting a distorted view of what the people that actually play the game want.

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

Yeah. For most people it wasn't even a lockout; it was just a wall they weren't allowed to climb over (unless they paid like Mexicans). I did have a belt, though. My first HNM LS had a ridiculous amount of MNKs and we tried to gear them out for Bahamut burns.

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We actually claimed Faf semi-regularly so we had several monks stuck on the Brown belt part of the quest that had the BB items sitting in their moghouse. We had several krakens (and bahamut zaghnals after) for Bahamut though.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

I'd say that the problem is more that a lot of people that want FFXI stuff in FFXIV spend their days whining on the forums and SE is getting a distorted view of what the people that actually play the game want.

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I think this is a huge issue. We have 2 types of people who play this game:

Those who enjoy modern mmo's

Those who played/enjoyed FFxi

Square Enix is trying to appease both. The problem being that neither is satisfied with the end product. They need to pick a direction to go and go with it, because their indecision is going to stop xiv from becoming successful.

As for me personally? I loved the FF games in my youth, but XI, even when I played it in 2002-2003, was too much of a grind, and I'd like to play an mmo where skill will net you better loot than how much time you can stuff your arse in front of a screen.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Rain

I'd like to play an mmo where skill will net you better loot than how much time you can stuff your arse in front of a screen.

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Pretty much everyone would - till then though we're stuck with scripted encounters and team jump rope style difficulty.

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

Yeah. For most people it wasn't even a lockout; it was just a wall they weren't allowed to climb over (unless they paid like Mexicans). I did have a belt, though. My first HNM LS had a ridiculous amount of MNKs and we tried to gear them out for Bahamut burns.

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It was sad that fun content like HNM's at the time were gated from the non-HNMLS's. Even during it's prime, places like Sky were gated off to a lot of people because people camped the NM's that gave the spawn items. Ohh the memories of camping Ullikumi all day just for a botter to take it.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Rain

Square Enix is trying to appease both. The problem being that neither is satisfied with the end product. They need to pick a direction to go and go with it, because their indecision is going to stop xiv from becoming successful.

As for me personally? I loved the FF games in my youth, but XI, even when I played it in 2002-2003, was too much of a grind, and I'd like to play an mmo where skill will net you better loot than how much time you can stuff your arse in front of a screen.

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This is very true. Its hard to read SE sometimes. It is clear as day they go the modern day route for success, but at the same time add weird elements that don't mix well with it. Like during beta, the developers were very clear when they said that they wouldn't add Notorious Monsters to the field and explained why. Yet, here they are, and as the developers said and we predicted, became the mess it is. Just feels like a poor afterthought that should of done more thinking and testing before releasing it into the game. It was a rushed job and it shows. Its like they did it just to spite people who wanted it so badly. There is just so many better ways the system could of been approached.

Only one thing I do know, and I am no exception to this, is that people don't know what they want, they just know what they don't want.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Pretty much everyone would - till then though we're stuck with scripted encounters and team jump rope style difficulty.

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And just for the record, what exactly made FFXI better? Because I see a lot of people saying that FFXIV isn't hard because of the scripted encounters but then act like FFXI required a lot of skill.

Seems more like you guys just use the "scripted encounters" as an excuse.

we most XI/1.23 players want XIV1.23 with better ui,better graphics, more content

not a Wow Clone Reborn, Theme park Reborn

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Originally Posted by WeiShan

not a Wow Clone Reborn

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It's not even a good wow clone. Items that were copied from WoW were done halfway or implemented in ways that WoW had ALREADY REALIZED didn't work and changed, but SE wants to learn all these lessons over again I guess.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Pretty much everyone would - till then though we're stuck with scripted encounters and team jump rope style difficulty.

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What other type of encounters would you like? Ones where you stand still and heal and attack until boss dies? Or maybe ones that involves single player skill only, and if one of the players dies you just raise them and keep going and have no danger.
I don't really understand what you people are looking for. The end game is absolutely skill based already, most people cannot do it. It's always "so easy, I just can't find 7 others." Either your gods gift to man or its just not as easy as you think.

Your a level 25 GLD and 3 CJR why are you posting in here about content Wei Shan.

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Originally Posted by Makado

Your a level 25 GLD and 3 CJR why are you posting in here about content Wei Shan.

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It could be an alt, but yeah, it would be nice if the people saying that everything is too easy actually had their achievement profiles open. At least then we could be certain that they're talking from experience and not from their rear end.

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Originally Posted by Makado

Or maybe ones that involves single player skill only, and if one of the players dies you just raise them and keep going and have no danger.

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a AoE toogle fo every spell, where you switch between single target mode and AoE mode
THM with astral/umbral spells and a cone AoE field
Every other elemental spells on CNJ
THM get WHM an CNJ get BLM

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Originally Posted by WeiShan

we most XI/1.23 players want XIV1.23 with better ui,better graphics, more content

not a Wow Clone Reborn, Theme park Reborn

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yeah, sure, let's make another niche game that will only have 500.000 players... that soooo smart.

1.23 was better than 1.0 that a reality, but it was still a bad mmorpg... stop with the pink glasses of nostalgia. and if you want XI it's still running.

i'm harsh but let's be honest, we are not 5 years ago when this sort of game will have work, now people want more than this... sadly for now SE seems to lack an understanding of them own community and game. since they give us content that can be done in small group in openworld... i'm sorry to say this but that was the worst idea ever!

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

I realized that with your type setting the first time. You're obviously having problems now though.

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I can totally stop any time I want to.
Please don't send help.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I can totally stop any time I want to.
Please don't send help.

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http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...qbfro1_500.gif

Sorry, thought this died in the 90's.

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Originally Posted by hyperhelios

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...qbfro1_500.gif

Sorry, thought this died in the 90's.

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Oh fuff, you're no fun.

When I subbed back in May the game felt great, community inclusion was high.

Now I feel like HUNTS and the lack of Duty Finder interaction is killing the game. I loved all the DF focus the game had before this last patch, now you can barely get into any DF parties. They added HUNTS the wrong way, it's literally boring me and I haven't played in like a week or two now.

SE needs to open their eyes and realize that the game has become too superficial and unlinked. It's all about forming your own little circle of friends and ignoring the world around you.

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Originally Posted by Felis

a AoE toogle fo every spell, where you switch between single target mode and AoE mode
THM with astral/umbral spells and a cone AoE field
Every other elemental spells on CNJ
THM get WHM an CNJ get BLM

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I think I'm missing what this means. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

When I subbed back in May the game felt great, community inclusion was high.

Now I feel like HUNTS and the lack of Duty Finder interaction is killing the game. I loved all the DF focus the game had before this last patch, now you can barely get into any DF parties. They added HUNTS the wrong way, it's literally boring me and I haven't played in like a week or two now.

SE needs to open their eyes and realize that the game has become too superficial and unlinked. It's all about forming your own little circle of friends and ignoring the world around you.

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Hunts are about forming a large group and paying attention to all the world around you. Also they are there to add NM hunting in the game. That's all really. Its kind of fun to do one or two nights a week for me but I'd rather spend time on other things.

Those are very small parties compared to the server as a whole. DF did a better job of server inclusion at its core.