#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

A single page of posts towards devs now is the whole thread? I don't think so.

Healers have been frustrated for years, the thread exploding is just an expression of that. It's not shocking that players would be antagonistic to devs as a group for that. So long as it's general feedback and not personal atta ks it's fair to express annoyance. They're paying for a product not getting charity.

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Its more than just a page.... i've been following this for days. And its SOME healers are frustrated. Not enough for them to roll back those changes either.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

See that's the thing though, they don't HAVE to listen to our feedback 100% of the time.

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And we don’t HAVE to be happy with the slop they serve us expansion after expansion

We are the customer here

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

See that's the thing though, they don't HAVE to listen to our feedback 100% of the time.

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No one's asking them to implement everything we say?

What we're asking them to do is acknowledge that the feedback exists. Because they haven't shown any inkling of feedback existing at all despite telling everyone to post feedback in the official forums.

You can't expect your paying customers to remain patient for eternity when you don't even notice their feedback on your product.

I am just going to say this since I keep seeing it pop up.

Healers choosing not to play a class that is no longer fun to them is NOT, I REPEAT NOT selfish.

They are simply exercising the same right I as a DPS or anyone else has to enjoy the game they pay for. They do not owe me a queue pop.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I am just going to say this since I keep seeing it pop up.

Healers choosing not to play a class that is no longer fun to them is NOT, I REPEAT NOT selfish.

They are simply exercising the same right I as a DPS or anyone else has to enjoy the game they pay for. They do not owe me a queue pop.

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good to hear Myrany, happy to share a world with you ^^

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Its more than just a page.... i've been following this for days. And its SOME healers are frustrated. Not enough for them to roll back those changes either.

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Yeah I've been peeking the thread too. The whole thread is not just atks on devs.
And you say not enough for them to roll back? Well Yoshi P already admitted they went too far making things simple. They already are planning to roll back on the simplifications to the jobs, the shitty part to that is we won't see it for years.

And yeah some healers, a lot of healers given this thread and every other major healer feedback thread also being hundreds of pages. The continued low playrate of healers compared to other roles could be argued that even outside forum feedback players don't find healers compelling enough to play.

I'll not bother with more on that matter. We can give our feedback and see what comes of it like we have since shb dropped.

Devs and SE as a whole can be criticised, ppl are paying for the game. I'm not for singling people out but I think it's fine to say the devs have failed healers if that's how you feel. I don't get to avoid critical feedback at my work, idk what this pussy footing is around game devs ever getting negativity for their poor products lately.

If you want the praise for the wins, and the se devs have had many. You can take the L's and criticism for places you could be doing better, in this case healers is one place they could do a lot better imo.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Oh look, its now the whole thread has descended into bashing the devs. How predictible.

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Oh look, a post made in bad faith to discredit years worth of dissatisfaction made by customers towards a product they also pay. How predictable.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Oh look, its now the whole thread has descended into bashing the devs. How predictible.

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It's truly remarkable the effect echo chambers can have on people psychologically. I've come to believe there are quite a few people here who truly cannot fathom that the 99.98% of the playerbase that doesn't use the forums might not necessarily share their opinions. Let's be real - the dev team has far more information available to them than any of us perusing the forums. If they're intentionally choosing and sticking with a certain path, chances are good it's because the huge amount of data they have available shows it's a good idea.

The negative echo chamber here, however, can't accept that the dev team likely is listening - they're just listening to everyone, as opposed to just the minuscule few of us that post on the forums. They've become incapable of considering that other people might find something fun and enjoyable that they personally don't. (And that's not even touching the point that the dev team has the freedom to decide what they want their game to be. We don't have any right to dictate that to them, simply to decide whether we like their product enough to play it and how to go about doing that.)

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Some people don\\\\'t care for roulettes and spend most of their time doing MSQ, side quests, FATEs, Tribal Dailies, etc., all of which occur outside of instances.

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You have chocobo companions for those activities. It’s laughable that you bring open world content to the table and think it’s good argument, they’re not. You don’t need party mitigation and group healing in open world.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

He straight up called it good game design. Meaning that the healers are sufficiently similar in that they\\\\'re balanced so you can feasibly take any of the healer roles in a group without hamstringing your group, while still giving each one enough unique touches to give it its own identity.

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The PH/BH split was enforced because Yoshi-p wanted healers to compensate each other, as stated in pre-EW interview. What you said is direct opposition to intended design.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Because people are naturally more apt to complain, and this is a voluntary sample of people who choose to post on the forum, rather than a truly random sampling of healers in-game. I\\\\'m a casual healer who is very much enjoying the current state of healers, for the record. And there are many more of us in-game that just aren\\\\'t among the minuscule few that post on the forums.

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Whenever you start posting in this tiny little echo chamber, you no longer represent the silent majority in game. You’re one of us now. Judging by your posts in this thread, I’d say you’re minority among the minority.

You’re also assuming everyone in the game has no negative opinions about the game based on the fact they don’t post. Let’s say you’re right.
The premise of your argument:
people in the game has zero negative opinions about the game and disagrees with forum feedback because they don’t post. People play FFXIV = FFXIV is good.

Based on the same premise, it’s also safe to assume that anyone, who has since terminated their subscription, must be unhappy about the game. In addition, anyone that doesn’t play FFXIV must think this game is so bad that they don’t even want to try it. People don’t play FFXIV = FFXIV is bad

We now have different groups of “silent majority.” The scales look like this: people who stopped subscription + people who don’t play FFXIV V.S people who enjoy FFXIV

Oh dear, we now have over tens of billions of people over the world that actively hate FFXIV. That makes us majority, and you the minority. Your opinion is so insignificant compared to the silent majority combined.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

You\\'re assuming everyone is here to "argue" and go back and forth. People can also just be stopping in to post their two cents with no intention of engaging in a protracted debate (especially against an echo chamber likely to gang up on them for daring to disagree and enjoy healing).

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A post is argumentative when confrontational keywords are used. They were used in the post I was responding to.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

It's truly remarkable the effect echo chambers can have on people psychologically. I've come to believe there are quite a few people here who truly cannot fathom that the 99.98% of the playerbase that doesn't use the forums might not necessarily share their opinions. Let's be real - the dev team has far more information available to them than any of us perusing the forums. If they're intentionally choosing and sticking with a certain path, chances are good it's because the huge amount of data they have available shows it's a good idea.

The negative echo chamber here, however, can't accept that the dev team likely is listening - they're just listening to everyone, as opposed to just the minuscule few of us that post on the forums. They've become incapable of considering that other people might find something fun and enjoyable that they personally don't. (And that's not even touching the point that the dev team has the freedom to decide what they want their game to be. We don't have any right to dictate that to them, simply to decide whether we like their product enough to play it and how to go about doing that.)

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Striker we are used to you claiming the majority with no evidence but that doesn’t even remotely match the point that the person you quoted is replying to

It’s got nothing to do with an echo chamber that we are rightfully calling out someone implying we are directly attacking the devs, there is no majority there

The silent majority has spoken by making healer queues so short,

if the game's playerbase likes healers so much, why aren't they playing healers?

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Yeah I've been peeking the thread too. The whole thread is not just atks on devs.
And you say not enough for them to roll back? Well Yoshi P already admitted they went too far making things simple. They already are planning to roll back on the simplifications to the jobs, the shitty part to that is we won't see it for years.

And yeah some healers, a lot of healers given this thread and every other major healer feedback thread also being hundreds of pages. The continued low playrate of healers compared to other roles could be argued that even outside forum feedback players don't find healers compelling enough to play.

I'll not bother with more on that matter. We can give our feedback and see what comes of it like we have since shb dropped.

Devs and SE as a whole can be criticised, ppl are paying for the game. I'm not for singling people out but I think it's fine to say the devs have failed healers if that's how you feel. I don't get to avoid critical feedback at my work, idk what this pussy footing is around game devs ever getting negativity for their poor products lately.

If you want the praise for the wins, and the se devs have had many. You can take the L's and criticism for places you could be doing better, in this case healers is one place they could do a lot better imo.

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God I love the “don’t bully the multimillion dollar company” mindset. Back when they killed the game and reworked it and made 2.0, they actually talked about how the fun and the feedback of the community are the pillars for a better game. Today they do it the same way as Blizzard does by saying “you think you know what you want but you don’t”. And people actually defending this kind of attitude is even more nuts. Like these people either rarely play healer or want a actual brain dead easy carry job because let’s be real if I had people pay 15 bucks a month for a 2 buttons gameplay while the other roles can full heal themselves without you as a “healer” then why the hell would I not play anything else if my entire trinity existence gets thanos snapped by almost every other dps and tank job in this game.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

let’s be real if I had people pay 15 bucks a month for a 2 buttons gameplay while the other roles can full heal themselves without you as a “healer” then why the hell would I not play anything else if my entire trinity existence gets thanos snapped by almost every other dps and tank job in this game.

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What. Every job needs a healer in most content other than like, WAR? PLD at a cost to dps? RDM Vercure's aren't keeping a tank topped. In fact, Viper comes with ZERO defensives other than a 120sec and 90sec abilities that hardly sustain over a fight. I will agree that SOME of the healing, shielding, and mit should be taken from the other roles and placed back on the healers, but speaking in hyperboles and over-exaggerations kills any sensible conversation.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

What. Every job needs a healer in most content other than like, WAR? PLD at a cost to dps? RDM Vercure's aren't keeping a tank topped. In fact, Viper comes with ZERO defensives other than a 120sec and 90sec abilities that hardly sustain over a fight. I will agree that SOME of the healing, shielding, and mit should be taken from the other roles and placed back on the healers, but speaking in hyperboles and over-exaggerations kills any sensible conversation.

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The sustain of the other roles massively devalues the healer

Put it this way, with the sustain the tanks and DPS have instead of needing to heal every 30 seconds I only need to heal every 90 seconds, so every piece of sustain that’s given to the other roles is one less piece of healing I actually need to do and more broil I’m stuck pressing

I should also inform you zero healer clears of all casual content is relatively easy in a decent group and no healer clears of savage isn’t uncommon

They're going to tell you it's just too hard to heal and all that sustain was added because of the bottom 5% off healers rather than maybe just bad WAR players.

Which, to be clear, I do not know that. Yet there's nothing disproving it either.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The sustain of the other roles massively devalues the healer

Put it this way, with the sustain the tanks and DPS have instead of needing to heal every 30 seconds I only need to heal every 90 seconds, so every piece of sustain that’s given to the other roles is one less piece of healing I actually need to do and more broil I’m stuck pressing

I should also inform you zero healer clears of all casual content is relatively easy in a decent group and no healer clears of savage isn’t uncommon

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They should honestly just take all the healing tanks have and instead focus on making the actual mitigation tools stronger, maybe not stuff like Reprisal or Shake it Off, but stuff like Rampart, TBN, Bloodwhetting, etc.

If you've got 40% damage mitigation then you're still dying, just a decent bit slower compared to only 15% or 20% mitigation. It still makes the job easier for healers while also not making them irrelevant by having the healer basically go AFK on heals while the warrior has their bloodwhetting on.

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Originally Posted by EmyEmy

It is concerning to see some healers displaying negative behavior in response to new expansions. Instead of focusing on the challenges and changes, it would be more constructive for healers to embrace the new content and adapt accordingly. Observations have shown that some healers exhibit arrogance by refusing to heal or resurrect players, particularly if the tank is new or struggling with mechanics. This can lead to an unsatisfactory experience in alliance raids, where other players, often DPS with healing or resurrecting abilities, have to compensate for the healer's lack of support.

Healers should prioritize their responsibilities, which include healing and resurrecting, to ensure a smooth gameplay experience. The expectation is for healers to maintain their role effectively, without letting personal frustrations interfere with their duties. It's important to recognize that every role faces challenges, but cooperation and a positive attitude can significantly improve the gaming environment for everyone.

Moreover, some healers express a desire for the game to be more challenging, potentially due to feeling underutilized. However, addressing this by neglecting their core responsibilities is not the solution. It is crucial for all players, including healers, to work together harmoniously to enhance the overall experience.

Square Enix, known for its expertise in game development, is expected to balance the needs and feedback of all player roles without disproportionately catering to any single group. By maintaining this balance, the company ensures that the game remains enjoyable and fair for the entire player base.

In conclusion, while feedback and adaptation are important, it is essential for healers to fulfill their roles responsibly and constructively engage with new content. A cooperative and positive approach will benefit not only individual players but the community as a whole.

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https://i.imgur.com/3jxKpLh.png
https://i.imgur.com/3Z3K9DY.png

I just wanted to chime in again and say; I'm tired of hearing content creators constantly voicing their opinion that healers are fine as is. The role is required in high end content and what do healers expect from dungeon content that needs to be accessible.

What I expect is a fully realized damage loop on my healer for when healing is not required and/or for solo content.

The FFxiv community is an echo chamber of worshipping Squex and the devs. The backlash against this movement is because we are finally speaking out and speaking loud against the echo chamber and they are offended by our heresy and blasphemy against their perfect game.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

The FFxiv community is an echo chamber of worshipping Squex and the devs. The backlash against this movement is because we are finally speaking out and speaking loud against the echo chamber and they are offended by our heresy and blasphemy against their perfect game.

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It's also amusing how we constantly hear about how good the devs are at listening to feedback, when healers have offered feedback and asked for changes since the start of Shadowbringers

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I just wanted to chime in again and say; I'm tired of hearing content creators constantly voicing their opinion that healers are fine as is. The role is required in high end content and what do healers expect from dungeon content that needs to be accessible.

What I expect is a fully realized damage loop on my healer for when healing is not required and/or for solo content.

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Are they actually voicing that opinion? Genuine question, I don't have the time or energy to follow a lot of them. What I've seen is "this strike is stupid" but then they agreed that there are problems with healers.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

What. Every job needs a healer in most content other than like, WAR? PLD at a cost to dps? RDM Vercure's aren't keeping a tank topped. In fact, Viper comes with ZERO defensives other than a 120sec and 90sec abilities that hardly sustain over a fight. I will agree that SOME of the healing, shielding, and mit should be taken from the other roles and placed back on the healers, but speaking in hyperboles and over-exaggerations kills any sensible conversation.

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Have done full pulls in dungeons with the weakest sustaining tank DRK, without a healer or RDM. It's hilarious. You should check out our run of Mt gulg, min item lvl (below questing gear), sync, full extended pulls (all five pulls, three at the end) no healer. It is truly eye opening and yet depressing at the same time. It is posted in the server. Feel free to see how needed a healer actually is, spoiler alert, they aren't.

By the way, I chose DRK to prove a point in sustain, I hadn't touched it for five months (don't like the concept of not contributing the most dps while having the least amount of sustain). I am in no way a DRK main, but we accomplished way more than I think you should be able to.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I just wanted to chime in again and say; I'm tired of hearing content creators constantly voicing their opinion that healers are fine as is. The role is required in high end content and what do healers expect from dungeon content that needs to be accessible.

What I expect is a fully realized damage loop on my healer for when healing is not required and/or for solo content.

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Somewhat a counterpoint. There's Cider Spider. He has a series where he is doing Mentor Roulette runs. Like 10 runs per video. He mains scholar. In the latest video, where he got a bunch of dungeons he complained a lot, how boring and sleep inducing they are. :P

Edit: I was watching the video and was thinking "this is the perfect demonstration what is wrong with the current content and job design"

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Originally Posted by Katish

Have done full pulls in dungeons with the weakest sustaining tank DRK, without a healer or RDM. It's hilarious. You should check out our run of Mt gulg, min item lvl (below questing gear), sync, full extended pulls (all five pulls, three at the end) no healer. It is truly eye opening and yet depressing at the same time. It is posted in the server. Feel free to see how needed a healer actually is, spoiler alert, they aren't.

By the way, I chose DRK to prove a point in sustain, I hadn't touched it for five months (don't like the concept of not contributing the most dps while having the least amount of sustain). I am in no way a DRK main, but we accomplished way more than I think you should be able to.

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Basically from experimenting with 1T3D comps the healer is functionally there to cover their own shortfall

A DRK (and depending on the pull a GNB) generally can’t survive long enough to finish the pull without a healer………….when the pull is going slower because there is a healer in the party and not a 3rd DPS

So healers are basically an enforced burden generated by their own shortfalls

https://youtu.be/RO5yKy2IYBE?si=WoTpdRq25sNfqwg0

Watched some of this while playing Elden Ring. He made some good points on how they should add mechanics that are exclusive for the healers. One example is during a certain mechanic you have to quickly dispell debuffs and that would cause the boss to take some damage, after you remove all the defuffs. He also did go after some content creators being disegeinus.

Look the devs simply need to have more mechanics for healers and make post game dungeons actually be more difficult and for me that sounds more fun as someone who likes to heal too. This is honestly probably the only solution that they will probably go with and would definitely make healing more fun if you have to use everything you have in your toolkit to survive.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Basically from experimenting with 1T3D comps the healer is functionally there to cover their own shortfall

A DRK (and depending on the pull a GNB) generally can’t survive long enough to finish the pull without a healer………….when the pull is going slower because there is a healer in the party and not a 3rd DPS

So healers are basically an enforced burden generated by their own shortfalls

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Indeed this is true, so when a healer just isn't pressing their dps button it's felt that much more in bigger pulls. The role is designed with huge failure in mind, and in my opinion, that makes it a huge failure. Some of our group failed some mechanics and we were still able to recover in the drk comp, reminder we did it below questing gear on all dungeons (min ilvl). So that tells me, the healer is only there for the worst of the worst, and if that isn't occurring they might as well not be there.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

What. Every job needs a healer in most content other than like, WAR? PLD at a cost to dps? RDM Vercure's aren't keeping a tank topped. In fact, Viper comes with ZERO defensives other than a 120sec and 90sec abilities that hardly sustain over a fight. I will agree that SOME of the healing, shielding, and mit should be taken from the other roles and placed back on the healers, but speaking in hyperboles and over-exaggerations kills any sensible conversation.

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And that is just a semi true fact. Yes ofc they have “less heal then healers” but the fact is pandemonium 5-8 flopped healing wise for casuals because healer aren’t the sole reason for mitigation and are forced too trust dps and tanks to press some extra buttons (something in a pug scenario that rarely happened) If the dps and tanks have such a massive chunk of the mitigation (something healers should have let’s be real here) and you effectively are in the mercy of these roles for a massive unavoidable aoe bleed then tell me how this doesn’t hamstring healers.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

What I've seen is "this strike is stupid"

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It kind of is. Facinating that yall manage to vent about healer for 516 pages though.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And that is just a semi true fact. Yes ofc they have “less heal then healers” but the fact is pandemonium 5-8 flopped healing wise for casuals because healer aren’t the sole reason for mitigation and are forced too trust dps and tanks to press some extra buttons (something in a pug scenario that rarely happened) If the dps and tanks have such a massive chunk of the mitigation (something healers should have let’s be real here) and you effectively are in the mercy of these roles for a massive unavoidable aoe bleed then tell me how this doesn’t hamstring healers.

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This is fundamental issue with healer design, that you only heal damage after mitigation, but you do not control amount of mitigation (which, includes vuln stacks as "negative mitigation" :) )

If there was no mitigation, but higher player HP pools, there would be more healing and proper triage and healer role would be far less dependent on what the rest of the party does (besides them standing in bad).

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And that is just a semi true fact. Yes ofc they have “less heal then healers” but the fact is pandemonium 5-8 flopped healing wise for casuals because healer aren’t the sole reason for mitigation and are forced too trust dps and tanks to press some extra buttons (something in a pug scenario that rarely happened) If the dps and tanks have such a massive chunk of the mitigation (something healers should have let’s be real here) and you effectively are in the mercy of these roles for a massive unavoidable aoe bleed then tell me how this doesn’t hamstring healers.

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Yup I did all of Abyssos savage in PF, including 8 clears of p8s, and the only thing I ever saw being discussed for survival was people telling me (the melee dps) and other dps and tanks when to use mitigations. What struck me as odd was that the healers never discussed healing cooldown use amongst themselves so that they could spare enough tools for each hard mechanic. I guess only mitigation from other roles mattered... Combined with the one button dps spam which is still present in savage and not only in dungeons, this is not the kind of "healing" I want to do as a former raid healer from WoW.

I can see tanks and/or physranged keeping their party mitigations but casters and melee have zero business being responsible for party survival. They are dps roles, not support.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

It kind of is. Facinating that yall manage to vent about healer for 516 pages though.

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More than that. Don't forget that there are more threads giving feedback to healers that got ignored for 2 expansions now. So I don't think it's fine to say that it is kinda stupid.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I can see tanks and/or physranged keeping their party mitigations but casters and melee have zero business being responsible for party survival. They are dps roles, not support.

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Found the player that never pressed Virus/Feint/Addle in their life.

I don’t think that’s their point at all lmao.

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Originally Posted by Venarius

Found the player that never pressed Virus/Feint/Addle in their life.

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Their point was that casters and melee have no business having mitigation that is required for completion (or mitigation at all, they can just have their defensives)

There are too many fail points for mitigation as it is, the melee and the caster mitigation should be pulled off them and given to the healers and tanks should lose reprisal in exchange for their shields/POA style mitigation leaving the only two real “mitigation” fail points as the healers and the physical ranged

Right now when you fail a mitigation check it could literally be any of the 8 members that failed

I'm mixed on party mitigation on DPS. It gives DPS some responsibility but also is something healers could have as their main thing if removed from DPS. Personal mitigation on DPS is okay tho as long as it doesn't have party healing. *Cough* *cough* reaper *cough* picto *cough"

In savage DPS already have the highest responsibility to actually meet the enrage, everyone needs to DPS but it’s far far easy to carry a grey healer through a savage than it is to carry a grey DPS

Savage should accentuate the trinity, not dilute it

put me on the sheet

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Their point was that casters and melee have no business having mitigation that is required for completion (or mitigation at all, they can just have their defensives)

There are too many fail points for mitigation as it is, the melee and the caster mitigation should be pulled off them and given to the healers and tanks should lose reprisal in exchange for their shields/POA style mitigation leaving the only two real “mitigation” fail points as the healers and the physical ranged

Right now when you fail a mitigation check it could literally be any of the 8 members that failed

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Yes like why was I alternating Feints with the other melee for several AoEs so that the party could survive while the healer is spamming Glare? Make it make sense. People say "do harder content" but the harder content is where I've questioned all this role blending the most.

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Originally Posted by Venarius

Found the player that never pressed Virus/Feint/Addle in their life.

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So you cut out the part of my post where I discuss using Feint and then post a quip saying I don't use it? It doesn't make you look clever, honey.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

What. Every job needs a healer in most content other than like, WAR? PLD at a cost to dps? RDM Vercure's aren't keeping a tank topped. In fact, Viper comes with ZERO defensives other than a 120sec and 90sec abilities that hardly sustain over a fight. I will agree that SOME of the healing, shielding, and mit should be taken from the other roles and placed back on the healers, but speaking in hyperboles and over-exaggerations kills any sensible conversation.

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nola pls u surely know u can faceroll all dungeons with 1t3d even on gnb

This is awkward...

On the topic of 1t3d, i'm not that good yet to carry with any other tank than PLD....