"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by computerquip

... this is the FFXIV community, what are you talking about? You're literally putting on a blindfold here.

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I feel like most people who think that the forums/reddit are not an accurate representation of the community ultimately are the ones who are the problem.

Y'know the beauty of this mentality? Tanks are not necessary to complete dungeons. A group can just as easily kick the baby-raging tank and have one of the DPS take over while they wait for the spot to be filled again. Even tankbusters won't do enough damage to one-shot most DPS. It's mostly just a question of whether or not the healer wants to deal with keeping a DPS alive while they get stomped into the ground.

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Originally Posted by computerquip

... this is the FFXIV community, what are you talking about? You're literally putting on a blindfold here.

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Well, first of all, you’re using literally incorrectly. I’m not actually wearing a blindfold.

Second, these shitty forums are not the entirety of the community. Only thankfully a very small part of it. And as the other poster pointed out, do not reflect the in-game community. Which is quite different.

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Originally Posted by computerquip

... this is the FFXIV community, what are you talking about? You're literally putting on a blindfold here.

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Nah. It's a part of the community but not the whole community. There are far more "I have level 90 everything and have run all content 700 times each so I expect X behavior and perfection from everyone I meet" here than in the game itself, with many new/casual players who really don't give a F about these so-called agreed upon standards.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Well, first of all, you’re using literally incorrectly. I’m not actually wearing a blindfold.

Second, these shitty forums are not the entirety of the community. Only thankfully a very small part of it. And as the other poster pointed out, do not reflect the in-game community. Which is quite different.

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It's liberating to reach the conclusion that what the few people here think doesn't matter all that much, since the in-game experience is very different in practice.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

so I expect X behavior and perfection from everyone I meet

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The amount of people who knowingly represent one side of the community with this kind of hyperbole. You know no one here has ever demanded or even asked for perfection. People have only said that by a certain point you should be knowledgeable about your class/ roll/ skills and do more than the bare minimum of showing up and hitting your most basic combination of attacks.
Asking people to use their defence and attack buffs is not expecting perfection. Pulling more than 1 pack of mobs is not demanding elite gameplay. Enough with the lies because people have minimal expectations

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Originally Posted by Lium

Well, first of all, you’re using literally incorrectly. I’m not actually wearing a blindfold.

Second, these shitty forums are not the entirety of the community. Only thankfully a very small part of it. And as the other poster pointed out, do not reflect the in-game community. Which is quite different.

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I also like how the other poster left out the part about redditors downvoting things they don't like to oblivion.

Like the complaints that you see here on the forums. We wouldn't want people to know that the game is less than pristinr, right?

/s

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I also like how the other poster left out the part about redditors downvoting things they don't like to oblivion.

Like the complaints that you see here on the forums. We wouldn't want people to know that the game is less than pristinr, right?

/s

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Most of the complaints here on the forums are not constructive, though. They are mostly just crapping on the game and tearing it down at every opportunity. Some of it is just trolling, but a lot of it is just negativity for the sake of being negative. Every now and then I'll read a legitimate critique about the game that I agree with. But it's mostly crap like this thread or everyone saying how terrible Endwalker was and how much it sucked. Or it's harping on how everyone should play the game exactly the way you want or they're doing it wrong.

This is not unique to these forums, by the way. Every MMO I've ever played has forums that suck. But FFXIV's forums really stand out to me because this game really is the best MMO on the market, in my opinion. And it is an all around good game. Flawless? No. But a really good game? Yes, absolutely. A quick glance at the forums, though, will have you believe it is the worst by far.

Reddit is mostly fluff for sure. But they actually do allow for some good CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. But you gotta come correct. You can't do a drive-by post like, "Why are casuals ruining this game?", or "Why was Endwalker so terrible?" without backing it up with your well thought-out reasons why.

The only thing good thing about these forums is the Lore Section, which I enjoy. There's less flaming and great discussions over there.

It feels like I haven't missed a single day of the forums from when I left it back in 2021.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Y'know the beauty of this mentality? Tanks are not necessary to complete dungeons. A group can just as easily kick the baby-raging tank and have one of the DPS take over while they wait for the spot to be filled again. Even tankbusters won't do enough damage to one-shot most DPS. It's mostly just a question of whether or not the healer wants to deal with keeping a DPS alive while they get stomped into the ground.

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in the 85 dungeon, we had a tank that ended up dying to the second boss while I was leveling SAM. Because he died, I ended up with the boss, and they were not provoking back so I ended up keeping enmity. painful, but my heart sunk seeing the tank buster icon circle me. I popped third eye, and hoped for the best, but expected my death for the tanks refusal to provoke, for whatever reason, to come for me.

To my own surprise, the tankbuster, from a boss, a boss that KILLED MY TANK did not kill me. However, sadly, the following auto still did as the healer was confident I'd die to it too and didn't have a heal ready for me.

But, I think it says a lot. Back in SB the 65 dungeon 100% would kill a non-tank (And I know, as I did a no tank run of that synced in SB for RP reasons), and here we are now where they just can't. If it's, at least in theory because I could have been healed to survive the following hit, possible for a dps to eat a tank buster and survive, and it's very much possible for dps to handle a single group so long as the healer pays attention a little bit, then unless the tank goes ham, they are quite literally just a weaker dps in the party. At that point, why would you not just bring a third dps?

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

in the 85 dungeon, we had a tank that ended up dying to the second boss while I was leveling SAM. Because he died, I ended up with the boss, and they were not provoking back so I ended up keeping enmity. painful, but my heart sunk seeing the tank buster icon circle me. I popped third eye, and hoped for the best, but expected my death for the tanks refusal to provoke, for whatever reason, to come for me.

To my own surprise, the tankbuster, from a boss, a boss that KILLED MY TANK did not kill me. However, sadly, the following auto still did as the healer was confident I'd die to it too and didn't have a heal ready for me.

But, I think it says a lot. Back in SB the 65 dungeon 100% would kill a non-tank (And I know, as I did a no tank run of that synced in SB for RP reasons), and here we are now where they just can't. If it's, at least in theory because I could have been healed to survive the following hit, possible for a dps to eat a tank buster and survive, and it's very much possible for dps to handle a single group so long as the healer pays attention a little bit, then unless the tank goes ham, they are quite literally just a weaker dps in the party. At that point, why would you not just bring a third dps?

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That's not necessarily true tho.
I had multiple dps survive multiple tankbusters in all content (with leveling gear and such, too). Unmitigated TBS on TANKS usually do less than half hp of them, that means dps can also survive it. Sometimes i do wonder how some tanks get so much more damage than others (unmitigated) but otherwise it doesnt kill them outright.

Heck, even I as healer survived some tankbusters i definitely should have died to.

Samurais, Nins and Reaper can survive a lot if they actually would use their mitigation tools, had multiple sams/nins easily survive tbs in Paradigms ONLY because they used their mitigations.

I throw shields on dps on instinct by now because i have seen them survive this often.

It happens a lot that if one tank dies that the other never picks them up in trials and then both are up and nobody takes the boss back for a while, god....
Dunno why hitting provoke is so hard, but it is

Even weirder is that the tank does pull all trash and then doesnt aoe them so you, the healer, have yellow aggro on everything....
Just... Aoe... if the dps run away from you with an add, i can understand that you dont wanna run after them if one provoke isnt enoigh and or out of range.

But if the people run to you to tackle you... just... aoe. You're supposed to Aoe anyways...

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

But if the people run to you to tackle you... just... aoe. You're supposed to Aoe anyways...

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This this this this this.

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Originally Posted by Asaeampan

You bring them to me, I'll take them. You don't bring them to me I'll just watch munching on my snack of choice at the time watching your HP drop to 0 because you couldn't wait a few bloody seconds.

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Positioning is a tank's job. If you're expecting them to bring their adds to the aoe party, then you're expecting them to follow 'you pull you tank'.


This whole equating it to 'I'll stop tanking now' is some weird strawman that I only hear when people make arguments against the 'you pull you tank' sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Y'know the beauty of this mentality? Tanks are not necessary to complete dungeons. A group can just as easily kick the baby-raging tank and have one of the DPS take over while they wait for the spot to be filled again. Even tankbusters won't do enough damage to one-shot most DPS. It's mostly just a question of whether or not the healer wants to deal with keeping a DPS alive while they get stomped into the ground.

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The tank class isn't needed in these runs, but someone still has to tank. Or do you have everybody running around like headless chickens trying to kite their individual mobs?


Who's pulling in these tankless runs anyway? Do they end up tanking? Positioning is part of tanking: Do they gather the mobs in a ball so you can absolutely demolish them? That is, are they following 'you pull you tank' after all?

I mean by definition yes in a run with no tank you have to have someone aggro the mobs at some point, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make though

moot point because even at 3 targets you should be aoeing and there's no real reason for dps to be running around so they can just stand vaguely near each other and press aoe buttons lol, the mobs will group themselves up quite naturally then regardless who has aggro

there is no real argument for "not wall 2 wall" unless you're in, like, stone vigil with 3 sprouts, or aurum vale where half the mobs are optional. If you're trying to force people into singlepull runs of Expert roulette that approaches borderline trolling from the level of laziness. Wall 2 Walling with current healer/tank kits boils down to pressing your aoe damage and cycling like 3 cooldowns. The requirement from a gameplay standpoint is that you know where the buff bar is on your HUD so you can press a new cooldown when the last one runs out.

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Originally Posted by Pells

Positioning is a tank's job. If you're expecting them to bring their adds to the aoe party, then you're expecting them to follow 'you pull you tank'.

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The problem is if they're running around with 3-4+ mobs willy nilly, it's incredibly slow at best, or impossible at worst, to get them back. Enemy hitbox while in motion is really weird. It's much easier, for both, to just bring it over to the tank if they get it. Heck in the case of like half the joblist, they'd be doing it anyways if they wanted to aoe themself.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Provided they have the common courtesy of dragging them to the tank, then sure there's no excuse.

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Exactly this. Bring them to me let me AOE them also remember people many people on this game even playing on the PC play using a controller. Simply using Provoke is not as easy as you think. Cycling using a controller takes time and can cause problems as your trying to do different things. If you want to pull bring it to the tank if for some reason the tank was not able to pull on mob and you got the mob on you don't run in circles away from the mob run to the tank.

As a tank I have to remember I can't always simply redirect everyone to come get that one mob on the DPS as I can turn the mob and cause the Healer to wipe.

I have escaped from baby jail to once again say YPYT is a coward's mindset.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

It feels like I haven't missed a single day of the forums from when I left it back in 2021.

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Not surprising, considering it takes a special sort of player to even want to stay on the forums (including me).

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

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This mentality was used to keep other roles in check, but I don't think it's needed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Thank you.

These forums are terrible and do not reflect the FFXIV community.

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Actually they do with a decent degree of accuracy. It's been proven time and time again, that's why people dont really throw around the old buzz words of "vocal minority" and such anymore becuase they've been proven to be bs.

People make the mistake of counting forum users as one sub set of the games player base and that's innacurate. The forum users consist of playrs from almost every subset you can imagine. Male, Female, Non Binary, Old, Young, Crafters, Gatherers, Casual players, Hardcore raiders, Speed runners, Role Players, Weekend warriors you name a sub set and there will be users of the forum who represent it.

What this does is it actually makes the forums a reasonably accurate representation of the playerbase as a whole.. Dissmissing the forums as a singular subset would be a big error and a common mistake.

A real world comparisson could be if I went to stand outside a Wallmart store and surveyed 1,000 customers about a chocolate bar... If the comon opionion opinion was it was flavorless you wouldn't dismiss that as just a Wallmart customers opinion. nor would you call it a "vocal minority" because the millions of people who didn't take the survey or dont shop at Wallmart must think the chocolate bar is amazing.

Companies have spent billions on consumer research and the results of all that rresearch often says that for every person that complains there's 25 people that share the same complaint but remain silent about it.

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“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain. The rest churn. A lesson here is that companies should not view absence of feedback as a sign of satisfaction. The true enemy is indifference.”

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Source

That last part is important and a mistake many people make. Silence or lack of feedback does not mean satisfaction or happiness. neither does participation..

You could take healers in XIV as an example. Lots of complaints Lots of silent people, Lots of people still playing healers...
You can not assume that all the people playing healer or are silent think the job is great..
the evidence shows that's just not true. Many will play the job simply because its needed by there groups or raid statics, Many just for faster queues on roulettes for tomes, other for completion sake. get every job to 90. many reasons.

So to dismiss the forums as an innacurate representation of the general playerbase is a huge mistake and one that many companies and games developers have learnt the hard way, All the consumer research proves that it's more likely to be accurate than not becuase forum users aren't a single subset.
It's the reason terms like "vocal minority" have died and no one with any sense uses them anymore.

If you are gonna pull stuffs at the least use arms length. Mmmm free mitigation!

Extra style points if you thunderclap back to me or do the swanky dragoon backflip/jump trick. Nothing gets my commendation faster! That deeps is free mitigation for you on that pull especially if sprint has run out. Icarus plus rescue is also super fricken fun! Zooooop free engage for the tank and Toxicon for Mia! Bards getting early dot uptime, Samurai building buffs early, reaper getting out that smexy debuff you just love to see it.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

A real world comparisson could be if I went to stand outside a Wallmart store and surveyed 1,000 customers about a chocolate bar... If the comon opionion opinion was it was flavorless you wouldn't dismiss that as just a Wallmart customers opinion. nor would you call it a "vocal minority" because the millions of people who didn't take the survey or dont shop at Wallmart must think the chocolate bar is amazing.

Companies have spent billions on consumer research and the results of all that rresearch often says that for every person that complains there's 25 people that share the same complaint but remain silent about it.
Source

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This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

This goes both ways with healers who believe certain people should be left to die because they did something wrong. However as I always tell healers when leveling there are two important people in the party your tank and yourself. The Tank is number 1 unless for some reason you got Argo or close to dying.

I always explain to a new healer or DPS if for some reason you accidentally pulled or let’s say a mob is walking around. Calmly run to the tank so they can AOE The target. Remember everyone AOEing is the best way for a tank to get Argo and remember many people are playing on controller rather then keyboard.

The worst thing a tank can do is if the DPS got Argo or pulled and now the tank has some to come rescue you. Now sometimes the rescue is easy but sometimes depending on where the DPS or healer is if I run to get your Argo and chase after you I might move the mob directly into the line of fire of the healer.

When you play as a DPS you are pawn in the game. If I move around the chess board to rescue you and sacrifice the two more important piece that’s not going to help.

Remember a healer is like butter. I can’t always just move around the board to save you but I can I will.

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Originally Posted by Espon

This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

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Indeed. While forums are diverse, there is one feature that binds us all.

None of us experience this game 'casually'.

Instead of playing the game and then forgetting about it until the next time we play or it pops up in our social media, we actively engage with the game when not playing it. Whether you want to connect with other players, or if you want to complain about that one thing in the game that ruins it for you... in either case, you're in deep.

That's not to say that devs should ignore us, but we aren't a complete cross-section of the player base, either. We aren't the people who answer questions when asked; nothing so passive as that. We are active - we mail our opinions to headquarters.

"You pull, you tank" is game dependent, IMHO. In FF14 i do not do this because getting aggro as a tank is very easy. Just spam AoE and all is fine. So i am not pissed off when someone pulls because i can get the situation under control very easy.


Cheers

As a main tank I am disgusted to see so many people condoning to this type of behavior.

Sure, Skiros is a troll but this post is pointing out a serious issue that should not be enabled.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

The assumption here is that they "don't want to play". The fact is not everyone is at the same skill level. [...]
The bottom line is if you don't have the patients are desire to deal with players who may not live up to your expectations then don't use roulette.[...]

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Skill level _doesn't matter_. Tanks play the EXACT same way at 1 group as they do 2 groups as they do 3 groups as they do 4 groups. They sit there and AoE

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

This right here pretty much says everything that needs to be said on this topic.

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Healers are the most affected by the number of enemies that are pulled, not tanks. If anything, healers should be the one determining how much to pull. If a healer or DPS pulls, they should just bring it to the tank. If the tank lets them die, the tank is wrong. Period. End of story. The tank can certainly ask if the person can stop pulling.

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Originally Posted by Espon

This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

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That's....that's not how statistics work. We don't need to see the total number of customers at all because based off the statistic you can extrapolate the total number of customers based off the number of customers that complain.... But that has nothing to do with the point that they're making. The point was that if you see a group of people complaining, then you can expect that 25 times that number are ALSO upset, just not complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

You shouldn't try to pull if you are not a Tank.
Not because tanks cannot pull them back but because it's super annoying for the tank.
You pretty much mess with the position of the mobs making in unescesary hard to pull them back.
Not to mention some smart ashes run around jumbing tinking they are playing Lara Croft or whatever.
There are roles for a reason.
DPS should burn the targets, Healers should heal and support whenever they can and Tanks should pull and manage the crowds.
If you want to pull just play as a tank.

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Almost none of this is true.

DPS pulling mobs will have little bearing on the tank if they're remotely decent. In fact, it may be easier to take aggro because now they're all bunched together. In all my years tanking, a DPS or Healer pulling has never "messed" with my tanking unless they run around with the mobs like a headless chicken. At which point, that's on them not me. It's the only time I'm fine with letting them die.

Players run ahead because they can. Have you ever tanked a small pull as a DPS? They're comically weak. So much so that a single pulling tank is completely worthless. You aren't a tank at that point. You're a gimped DPS. The same applies for healers. There's zero threat for a DPS taking mobs because the occasional auto does nothing. There is no reason to pull small, especially at 70+. Trusts exist for a reason. Use them if you want to casually stroll through.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

Could you just stop, every post you make is just vitriol. The only point you have successfully made is you are an elitist womble.

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Truth hurts, huh? If you are going to single pull, you indeed don't need a tank. This is an objective fact.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

Truth hurts? Have you grouped with me? Do you know me? Nope? Then you really have no idea what you are talking about do you? Show me where I said yeah single pulling only? Meanwhile Ill just add you to the list of garbage people just looking for a fight.

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Delightful. Well aren't you the paragon of compassion and holiness?

Imagine accusing other people to write comments with vitriol when you take every opportunity you can to call others 'garbage people'.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Imagine accusing other people to write comments with vitriol when you take every opportunity you can to call others 'garbage people'.

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Literally beat me to writing this.

I just went down the list and put a whole lot of people on the ignore list. The post is super super toxic with some salty people in it. My Lord.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Imagine accusing other people to write comments with vitriol when you take every opportunity you can to call others 'garbage people'.

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that's how the average YPYT tank, 0 DPS healer and freestyle rotation DPS usually handles themselves in this game lmao

Kupo the funniest thing about this thread is the Tag Cloud <3 lol kupo

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Originally Posted by ThivraK

that's how the average YPYT tank, 0 DPS healer and freestyle rotation DPS usually handles themselves in this game lmao

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Hmm, seems like they yeet boyed all the posts or mod got them. Ohhhhh well.

There are three ways usually a pull can go if a dps pulls or even healer just dots a mob like they are immortal in castrum. I like to call this the the dps/healer pull grief, where I am in paper armor or I know dps is low so I will try my best to do the pull anyway, but for some reason even with sprint this is not fast enough and someone will run in and instead of pulling the mobs to me, they run around like a headless chicken. I usually just shake my head as I watch their health drop extremely fast and I run after them in attempt to catch up with them, but usually in those situations it goes great googly moogly for a moment before order is restored.

It is so weird they will run around making the pull take twice as long and seen the previous pull you pulled the whole world, so why would they think this time would be different. Why would they suddenly go crazy. It just feels strange like they were just trying to cause an issue. I am going as fast as I can I can't physically go any faster.

This is also the case when some, usually astros, take lightspeed to the brain and start to run around like a monkey dotting things than dragging them around castrum because they have an ssd and loaded in faster after the cutscene. They also do not pull the mobs to any tanks and run around lightspeed trying to keep themselves alive while usually saying something snarky in chat about going faster. These do not happen often but when they do it is just one of those things I have grown to except happens sometimes. My favorite was someone saying "Keep this train rolling". The astro was all the way at the end of the huge pull to the second set of canons somehow they made it to end before everyone and they just ran without everyone and died. Someone told them "the train apparently ends with the floor"


The second example, everyone is silent somewhat griefy dps. You are in lower level gear and dps want to pull every group and do the biggest chungus stone vigil pull while doing barley any damage. This was when I was first starting out. Not much gear was dropping in the dungeons and I was attempting to gear out best I could with a smattering of dungeon gear ranging from brayflox, maybe some shoes from qarn I think one thing from cutters cry and I was in vigil. I was the healer, and typed could we hold a second I am oom. The blm and dragoon who were already doing low dps which was one of the main reasons I was oom.

No one responded in chat and black mage decided to just run ahead with the dragoon and try to solo 6 ice sprites everything inside of the side room and a few dragons, It was the last pull before the boss that you can break up into two parts usually do if in bad gear or low dps the ice sprites can really destroy you if you are not in full vigil gear or later. Heck I have seen people get destroyed in ironworks unsure about later gear because it has been sometime since I have seen vigil.

They died, mobs reset, I was typing in chat and didn't notice they were dead until I seen the release teleport graphic. We wait for them to get back, tank went to do the pull they scathed the second set of sprites than pull the things in the room we whipe again. Maybe I could have healed through it but I literally had no time to dps I was spamming cure 2 and starting to fish for freecures out of desperation. The tank didn't have the best gear either and was mitigating but things were just taking so long to die. I don't know, it was just not fun. Wooohoo first time healing vigil. At least they finally typed in chat 'Oh' and finally stopped doing that and the two pulls went fine still took forever but it was fine. They probably had bad gear too so why try to aggro everything if you can't do the damage to back it up?

The third and final glorious dps moment. I was in the burns and the saint of a dragoon was pulling for me. They were amazing! The would jump in tag the mobs arms length and bring them back to me after my sprint ran out to finish out the big pulls without having to wait to get to the end of the chasm. That is how you do it. I com'd that amazing dps.

You can pull for the tank just don't run around like a doofis. I don't care if you pull for me, I don't care if you accidentally pull just don't run the mobs around like a weirdo that is all I ask, if I can't physically get to you I can't save your booty. I will try to save your booty the best I can if you pull something that one shots you, I can only voke intercede try to get a cover off. I like to think I pick up ads fast even ads that spawn into an arena and when the boss jumps from the arena and back. Usually many of the healers I have played with whom I know will keep people alive through situations they really shouldn't be alive through. Dps have a ton of vulns well they are somehow still alive and we won! I have seen people with so many stacks in vale survive without eating fruit for 7 stacks, I have no clue how that was possible, but I feel if you die on their watch it would be a miracle.

Someone posted this before but I wish to restate this. This is a team game, everyone on your team is important. Not the healer, not the tank, not the dps. ALL are important. Sure you can do content without one or the other, but everyone in the dungeon is important and there is someone at the other end of the screen trying to just have fun in a team game. Just because you play healer or tank does not make you a god, stap it.

Maybe I am a heartless monster but if you go running into a boss room while I am in a cutscene and die, I can't save you. I am watching my cutscene darn it!

I am extremely sorry for how long this became!

We're back, back again~

I remember years ago mentioning healer regen prepull can be an accident, and got a long wall of text response that was completely unnecessary.

Fast forward to SHb now we get Gunbreaker having a regen that they can slap on anyone, put it the red DPS that pulled to bring the mobs to them, easy game.

Every year I'm reminded how many people have high sensitivity over the most benign things in the game, a dungeon of all things. Easy stuff that is over in no more than 18 minutes on average where you never see each other again.

Get mad over something that more valuable use of your time.

Welp, not this again…

:blobsweat:

The real issue is that tanking in this game is a joke. Tanks are little more than brain dead dps classes that happen to have more mitigation abilities, and where the mitigation kits between tanks is virtually the same outside of 1 ability (amazing game design, best mmo ever tho.. lol)

Dungeon mobs barely hit for anything individually, have virtually zero relevant mechanics as they have no consequences/punishment and aggro as a concept might as well be removed from the game as all you have to do as a tank is bang your head on the keyboard/gamepad and you'll have aggro, so long as you dont forget to put on your tank stance. Couple that with the fact that some tanks basically dont need a healer, period, and you have a complete degeneration of gameplay. So no wonder DPS classes feel like they get to pull and do the tank's job, the job is trivial, menial and made to be basically impossible to fail at.