Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

different devices, different instruments, different sources...but its still all music

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Leveling slow or leveling fast... it's all still leveling...

You can listen to fast music or slow music...

you can level fast or you can level slow...

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

Who are you to define what the core mechanic of a mmorpg is? Things are constantly changing, the way we listen to music has changed over the years but we are still listening to music. And it has been ok in many...many ...many...mmorpgs i have played in the past. bold....

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Character progression is a core mechanic in every MMORPG. Without it the rest of the game would be meaningless. Without character progression you may as well be playinga lobby game.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Character progression is a core mechanic in every MMORPG. Without it the rest of the game would be meaningless. Without character progression you may as well be playinga lobby game.

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Using bold text makes me sound like I am driving down a bumpy road while I talk.

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

Who are you to define what the core mechanic of a mmorpg is? Things are constantly changing, the way we listen to music has changed over the years but we are still listening to music. And it has been ok in many...many ...many...mmorpgs i have played in the past. bold....

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The hallmark of roleplaying games have always been levels and story. When you look at the term MMORPG, you must note that it is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

If you need a visual representation that very simply represents what the core or a RPG is, please follow this link. It is a VERY simple "rpg" that displays those two core components of a RPG.

http://www.sophiehoulden.com/games/thelinearrpg/

If you make it possible to skip progression, it is no longer a RPG. And no, let's not take the words "role playing game" literally, as you understand (At least I hope) what roleplaying games have been for the past 4+ decades.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Character progression is a core mechanic in every MMORPG. Without it the rest of the game would be meaningless. Without character progression you may as well be playinga lobby game.

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You are right character progression is the core mechanic of the game...LEVELING IS NOT. You still progress after leveling!

Think of it this way in terms of progression, idk if anyone has beaten Ifrit yet, but im going to assume that he is impossible as of right now without a progression of your character. As it is, crafted weapons and armor maybe the best items available with materia in it, and untill your character progresses in this area you will not be able to progress in the game itself. Getting classes leveled up at a decent rate can only help this cause.

As i know that once i get the 2 classes i want to 45+ im going to go crazy in the crafting department. The sooner i can get past leveling my 2 DoM the sooner i can enjoy the game.

Yeah, let's get a person to power level another person and lets get another person who soloed/partied his way to 50, and lets pit them against each other.. The guy that has power levelled will be killed in a minute if not seconds after the fight starts.

What I'm trying to say here is, power levelling deprives the person of all the EXPERIENCE he had to get himself, I mean that's what you get when you kill monsters, "Experience" and if you power levelled all the way to 50, then you just threw away one of your best assets.

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Originally Posted by Rexes

Yeah, let's get a person to power level another person and lets get another person who soloed/partied his way to 50, and lets pit them against each other.. The guy that has power levelled will be killed in a minute if not seconds after the fight starts.

What I'm trying to say here is, power levelling deprives the person of all the EXPERIENCE he had to get himself, I mean that's what you get when you kill monsters, "Experience" and if you power levelled all the way to 50, then you just threw away one of your best assets.

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Thats not true, unless the player was afk the whole time and never once looked at the game, experience will come from attempting new content. The hours grinding raptors will not teach you how to fight ifrit or how to go through strongholds. Fighting as a team and learning ifrit encounters could also make you experienced in future raids and bosses as they may be similar.

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Originally Posted by Rexes

power levelling deprives the person of all the EXPERIENCE

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You can "learn to play" after you are done powerleveling.

You can "learn to play" while not powerleveling at all.

Choose the way you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

You are right character progression is the core mechanic of the game...LEVELING IS NOT.

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What do you think leveling is? It is character progression in the purest sense of the term. Of course there is character progression beyond leveling, but to get to that point you have to progress your character by leveling.

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Originally Posted by Rexes

What I'm trying to say here is, power levelling deprives the person of all the EXPERIENCE he had to get himself, I mean that's what you get when you kill monsters, "Experience" and if you power levelled all the way to 50, then you just threw away one of your best assets.

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If they wish to skip that experience then that's there decision. It's not like they can't go back and do it anyway. Sure, it'll be easier, but that's the price you pay.

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

Thats not true, unless the player was afk the whole time and never once looked at the game, experience will come from attempting new content. The hours grinding raptors will not teach you how to fight ifrit or how to go through strongholds. Fighting as a team and learning ifrit encounters could also make you experienced in future raids and bosses as they may be similar.

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Nevermind how awesome it would be if the devs did make party strategy more meaningful so there WAS experience to gain through your journey to cap.

There still is some, but not much. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean FFXIV can't become a better game once more patches come out. Your point is null.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

you have to progress your character by leveling.

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You can progress your character by leveling slow.

You can progress your character by leveling fast.

Choose the way you enjoy.

If you really can get from 1-40 in a day then, in my opinion, it is a bit broken, lol. However, I am totally against the need of parties to get decent-good exp. There are people who like solo and those who enjoy parties. There are people who have 12 hours a day to play and those who play every 3 days for 4 hours. The game should be balanced in a way that no matter what your available playtime is or your number of friends in game you should be able to accomplish everything. People play to win a game, not beat half of it. And in an online game since there is no end to the game, beating it would be to complete all the content that is released and obtain all the trophies, items, etc. such content gives. Taking all classes to 50 is part of that content. I think a day per class is way too little, lol. On the other hand, several months for me is too much. I guess what I´m saying is it all depends on the type of player/available time/preferences in game. At least the current state of the game lets everyone enjoy his/her preference of playing. Parties can go camp and have fun and those who don´t like the exping part of the game can blow through it and focus on other content.
With tha

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Originally Posted by Crica

You can progress your character by leveling slow.

You can progress your character by leveling fast.

Choose the way you enjoy.

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You can choose to get mad at the plvl killing all your mobs while you're trying to have a legitimate party.
Edit; Yes, it has already happened to me. Few hours ago.

You can choose to give up and get a plvl.

Or, you can choose to help send the message that this needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Crica

You can progress your character by leveling slow.

You can progress your character by leveling fast.

Choose the way you enjoy.

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How exactly does that fit within the context of my post and the post I was replying to? We weren't talking about the speed of progression. We were talking about the broad concept of character progression.

We get it. Play the game in a way that you enjoy and ignore everything else.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Nevermind how awesome it would be if the devs did make party strategy more meaningful so there WAS experience to gain through your journey to cap.

There still is some, but not much. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean FFXIV can't become a better game once more patches come out. Your point is null.

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Thats true and i have nothing against that, but as of right now this is the way it is. If this game had a meaningfull party system then il be all for it and it does...5 star leves...

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Originally Posted by Issac

You can choose to get mad at the plvl killing all your mobs while you're trying to have a legitimate party.

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Adding more mobs with a faster respawn rate would make this never happen.

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Originally Posted by Crica

A faster respawn rate would make this never happen.

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So I heard you like easy, so why don't we put easy on top of easy where all that easy is?

Faster respawn rate would translate to even faster powerleveling. What you're suggesting would make it worse.

Edit;

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Originally Posted by Crica

Adding more mobs with a faster respawn rate would make this never happen.

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I see you edited your post. More mobs, again, would still make the powerleveling problem worse. Oh, there's 30 mobs intead of 15? AWESOME, CHAIN 29!

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Originally Posted by Issac

I see you edited your post. More mobs, again, would still make the powerleveling problem worse. Oh, there's 30 mobs intead of 15? AWESOME, CHAIN 29!

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Ok, wait... you are saying once I choose to PL, that means you no longer have the choice to NOT PL?

Because I can tag all the mobs before you can tag one?

That sounds more like I have more skill then you...or that I have a ranged attack and you do not...or that I have a faster ranged attack then you do...

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Originally Posted by Issac

So I heard you like easy, so why don't we put easy on top of easy where all that easy is?

Faster respawn rate would translate to even faster powerleveling. What you're suggesting would make it worse.

Edit;


I see you edited your post. More mobs, again, would still make the powerleveling problem worse. Oh, there's 30 mobs intead of 15? AWESOME, CHAIN 29!

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you have 2 50's and a 38 archer why the hell are you complaining? i dont get it...lol im done here :D

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Originally Posted by Crica

Ok, wait... you are saying once I choose to PL, that means you no longer have the choice to NOT PL?

Because I can tag all the mobs before you can tag one?

That sounds more like I have more skill then you...or that I have a ranged attack and you do not...

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Say I have a party of 8. We hit a mob and get 4 links. We're busy fighting 5 mobs appropriate for our level while the plvl runs around and chains the other 25. This is excessive. We finish fighting our 5 mobs, and the mobs are now respawning sporadically around the map. We can't get that link bonus anymore, so while we kill that 1 mob, the plvl runs around and kills 5.

Do you get what I'm saying, here? Note that this is an exaggerated situation as I'm going along with your "more mobs, faster respawn" scenario.

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Originally Posted by Mindx3

you have 2 50's and a 38 archer why the hell are you complaining? i dont get it...lol im done here :D

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I rerolled on a new server for the thousandth time. New character. Highest level 28.


... I'm going to bed.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Say I have a party of 8. We hit a mob and get 4 links. We're busy fighting 5 mobs appropriate for our level while the plvl runs around and chains the other 25. This is excessive. We finish fighting our 5 mobs, and the mobs are now respawning sporadically around the map. We can't get that link bonus anymore, so while we kill that 1 mob, the plvl runs around and kills 5.

Do you get what I'm saying, here?



I rerolled on a new server for the thousandth time. New character. Highest level 28.

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Thats great bro starting fresh is always fun! Since you have been playing the game for clearly a very long time maybe you could benefit from a friend helping you out and get you faster levels so you can get started on the real meat of the game.
Im sure you have enough experience already. If not happy partying and soloing! Last post promise.

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Originally Posted by Godking

If they wish to skip that experience then that's there decision. It's not like they can't go back and do it anyway. Sure, it'll be easier, but that's the price you pay.

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No, it's the price we all pay. An MMO can not survive if everyone can instantly get to cap. You have to have a balanced progression system or people will get bored to quickly. Players will treat the game like a single player game and quit when they hit max level and get bored. If that happens in a week then there is literally no chance of the game ever building a sufficient population with which to sustain itself monetarily. This kind of glaring design flaw literally kills games. People who finish an MMO cancel their subscription. People who play an MMO want a long drawn out experience. This game should at the bare minimum entertain you for Five years. if you have caped every battle class in a month there is no possible way for it to do that. End game content can not be put out fast enough to sustain a game full of max level players.

They are called Experience Points for a reason. Earning them is the experience, be it through grinding or questing or whatever else. Everything else is the icing on top of the cake. If you make gaining experience points to easy you no longer have a game.

I don't understand these opinions about people not understanding their job if they level fast. The jobs are easy to understand and play with. I leveled fast with CNJ and I'm doing a great job maintaining eminity and cure flow. These are all flawed reasons being thrown out there to get rid of low levels attending high level parties. This is all jealous factor. By the time they raise cap soon it's going to be much harder. 100k exp it takes to get to lv 50, imagine trying to get lv 99. Yeah, there's nothing to worry here.

I now PL my own Ls so they can be caught up to do raids and other fun events.

You guys are acting like no one has to play up to 50 in the "Legit" manner in the first place. It helps to have friends in high places, now even more so.

How many times have you tried to convince a friend to join, only to get the "Man it'll take me forever to get caught up" stock reply?

Try to keep in mind most people don't have 8+ Hours a day to play a video game. I want my wife to play with me, but she is far from what you would consider a Gamer.

It would literally take MONTHS of casual gaming to get her to my level, before we could start enjoying new content together. Now, it will take a few hours. This is a bad thing? Not for normal people.

Seems to me the real reason anyone has a problem with this is simple pettiness. "I did it the right way so everyone else should have to as well." Don't try to play it off as "What's best for the game." You are pissy that someone can do something much faster and easier than you did it, provided they know some people.

"Oh No! There won't be any low level players in the game inside of a month!" Gimme a break. What exactly does that effect negatively?

Life isn't fair. Get used to it.

Or keep complaining, while you do that I'll be playing some nice endgame content with my friends and wife who I can now convince to play because of this. Have fun deleting your character over and over again, sounds like a good time.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

No, it's the price we all pay. An MMO can not survive if everyone can instantly get to cap. You have to have a balanced progression system or people will get bored to quickly. Players will treat the game like a single player game and quit when they hit max level and get bored. If that happens in a week then there is literally no chance of the game ever building a sufficient population with which to sustain itself monetarily. This kind of glaring design flaw literally kills games. People who finish an MMO cancel their subscription. People who play an MMO want a long drawn out experience. This game should at the bare minimum entertain you for Five years. if you have caped every battle class in a month there is no possible way for it to do that. End game content can not be put out fast enough to sustain a game full of max level players.

They are called Experience Points for a reason. Earning them is the experience, be it through grinding or questing or whatever else. Everything else is the icing on top of the cake. If you make gaining experience points to easy you no longer have a game.

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I completely understand what you're saying. I've been there and I'm sure half of these people have been there themselves: hit max, make a new toon, hit max, make a new toon. It can only go on for so long. I do find it disturbing that you can hit max level so quickly and the game has only been out a little than a year. I can understand if it was 4-5 years in that they decided to do it to this extreme. I can see it definitely being adjusted considering there is no end game at the moment except for Ifrit and DD, which no one will do anymore. I'm sure they'll respond soon. They are probably just coming up with what they want to say at us to make us all happy.

I've been leveling my low levels with mid level friends trying to get into the game, even as a low level I can equip cures/buffs and we can kill without downtime making exp better. I can get exp on my low level and they can still chain by killing equal level mobs for their level. We both enjoy being able to do this and I'm pretty sure neither of us would be playing even half as much as we are if this wasn't possible.

I don't think the powerleveling situation right now is as severe as people are trying to make it. People aren't "bypassing" leveling/progression, they are simply making it a little faster and more enjoyable. FFXI took a similar path with Abyssea and leveling there, and I fully support the current powerleveling. Right now people are excited about it and some people are abusing it, but over time the dust will settle and it won't be as rampant as it is now.

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Right now people are excited about it and some people are abusing it, but over time the dust will settle and it won't be as rampant as it is now.

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Nah, that is counter to the evidence people have seen in MMO's for ages. If an exploitable mechanic exists in the game, and goes unfixed, all it does is grow in popularity over time.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

Nah, that is counter to the evidence people have seen in MMO's for ages. If an exploitable mechanic exists in the game, and goes unfixed, all it does is grow in popularity over time.

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This isn't an exploit. Sounds like you're confused here.

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Originally Posted by Ava

This isn't an exploit. Sounds like you're confused here.

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Well, for one, you don't know that it isn't. For two, let's say "method to abuse." Happy now?

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Originally Posted by Travesty

Well, for one, you don't know that it isn't. For two, let's say "method to abuse." Happy now?

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Yoshi-P specifically stated it wasn't pre-patch. He was fully aware of powerleveling in 1.19 and supported it 100%. I specifically chose the to word what people are doing now as abuse because it's not a fun method of leveling. It's a thrill that doesn't last. Powerleveling is not fun for the powerleveler, and even less fun for the lowbie sitting there with his/her hands in their pockets leeching exp. People play games for fun and leveling, questing, doing leves, behests, etc is much more fun. I think it's reasonable to expect the abuse to become mitigated greatly after a couple weeks.

There is a similar method in WoW that is even faster. In fact, when completed, you get a free character leveled right off the bat. Granted, it costs a small fee but irregardless, it's not overly abused in the game. In XI you could bring low levels into Abyssea and get level cap in a day and it was greatly abused when Abyssea first hit. I'm not sure how it is now since I don't play anymore, but I would imagine it died down eventually. In fact, in XI pre Abyssea, it was impossible to exp in the low-mid levels without a powerlevel. People absolutely would not join a party without a powerlevel, but most people were fine with that. Is this really that much different from what other games have?

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Originally Posted by Ava

Yoshi-P specifically stated it wasn't pre-patch. He was fully aware of powerleveling in 1.19 and supported it 100%. I specifically chose the to word what people are doing now as abuse because it's not a fun method of leveling. It's a thrill that doesn't last. Powerleveling is not fun for the powerleveler, and even less fun for the lowbie sitting there with his/her hands in their pockets leeching exp. People play games for fun and leveling, questing, doing leves, behests, etc is much more fun. I think it's reasonable to expect the abuse to become mitigated greatly after a couple weeks.

There is a similar method in WoW that is even faster. In fact, when completed, you get a free character leveled right off the bat. Granted, it costs a small fee but irregardless, it's not overly abused in the game. In XI you could bring low levels into Abyssea and get level cap in a day and it was greatly abused when Abyssea first hit. I'm not sure how it is now since I don't play anymore, but I would imagine it died down eventually. In fact, in XI pre Abyssea, it was impossible to exp in the low-mid levels without a powerlevel. People absolutely would not join a party without a powerlevel, but most people were fine with that. Is this really that much different from what other games have?

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This is all well and good if there wasn't any low level content and all the focus was on endgame, which is what FFXI and WoW mostly became.

But XIV is still just starting, and 50 isn't exactly endgame. We have low level content and dungeons that are being rendered pointless and useless by people skipping ahead. Why should the devs support something that enables everyone to skip over half of their game?

When subscriptions hit, you can be damn sure this will be reconsidered.

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Originally Posted by Ava

Yoshi-P specifically stated it wasn't pre-patch. He was fully aware of powerleveling in 1.19 and supported it 100%.

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There is 0 evidence from his comments to make us believe he supports PLing to the extreme that is now possible, and several comments to the contrary, as has been pointed out in this thread multiple times already.

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Is this really that much different from what other games have?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Ava

There is a similar method in WoW that is even faster. In fact, when completed, you get a free character leveled right off the bat. Granted, it costs a small fee but irregardless, it's not overly abused in the game. In XI you could bring low levels into Abyssea and get level cap in a day and it was greatly abused when Abyssea first hit. I'm not sure how it is now since I don't play anymore, but I would imagine it died down eventually. In fact, in XI pre Abyssea, it was impossible to exp in the low-mid levels without a powerlevel. People absolutely would not join a party without a powerlevel, but most people were fine with that. Is this really that much different from what other games have?

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Just wanted to qualify that statement...

Are you claiming it was impossible to exp in the low-to-mid levels in terms of gameplay? Or, do you mean it was impossible because, as you state later, so many would refuse to join or participate in an xp party without a PL?

If it's the latter, then I agree.. people became *far* too dependent on PL's in that game. Having PL became a crutch to people and I encountered people who literally couldn't function without one. Was sad to see.

If you mean it was literally impossible to xp without a PL in that you *needed* one to level through the low-mid levels... then I'd have to say that's 100% wrong lol. You could level - at any level range - in XI without a PL. Plenty of people did it plenty of times before the whole PL thing caught on 'cause people became too impatient to level alt jobs up without one.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Just wanted to qualify that statement...

Are you claiming it was impossible to exp in the low-to-mid levels in terms of gameplay? Or, do you mean it was impossible because, as you state later, so many would refuse to join or participate in an xp party without a PL?

If it's the latter, then I agree.. people became *far* too dependent on PL's in that game. Having PL became a crutch to people and I encountered people who literally couldn't function without one. Was sad to see.

If you mean it was literally impossible to xp without a PL in that you *needed* one to level through the low-mid levels... then I'd have to say that's 100% wrong lol. You could level - at any level range - in XI without a PL. Plenty of people did it plenty of times before the whole PL thing caught on 'cause people became too impatient to level alt jobs up without one.

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That the issue i was partying with 8 people from 21-27 and within a hour the 21 got 25. everyone was level every 30min it was crazy with the expchain and this is without powerlevel now if i got 19-29 with a full party within 2hours or less now think of that with a powerlevel? i had to /tell many powerlevel to go somewhere else because we partying here about 100% of them where nice said i'm sorry and left. Even was JP person powerlevel his friend it starting to become a main steam thing and less people going to do party.

They need to fix the exp for partying and take off Powerleveling it's becoming a main steam thing now with PL and don't get me starting with the RMT saw 7 low level powerlevel by 1 50 and all there names where

dfkajad - adlkfj
adlfkj - aldkjf

and so on and even there linkshell was aldkfja

At no point in FFXI's life cycle did a PL make great exp 'possible' for a good party. Easier, certainly (as it is the point of powerleveling), but completely unneeded.
RDM+BRD+4xDD could actually work in a lot of level ranges (was more effective, thus more common 70+) and usually you wouldn't have much, if any, downtime running that setup if the DDs who pulled hate could pass it around and sub ninja. Power leveling really made little impact on such a group, the only thing is that groups like that weren't the norm, sadly.


Anyway, in terms of power leveling in FFXIV... I don't think it's really that bad anyway. Leveling fast isn't actually a bad thing for anyone except low rank crafters. They get the shaft in a number of ways anyhow though...

Why doesn't SE just give us all rank 50 battle classes. We clearly don't have to work for it anymore.

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Originally Posted by feint2021

Why doesn't SE just give us all rank 50 battle classes. We clearly don't have to work for it anymore.

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I just want to point out to those of you making comments like these that you are completely devoid of integrity in this. If you had integrity, you would exercise the option of taking the hard path, but instead you choose the easy and blame others for not forcing your hand. You do not deserve any effort from the dev team towards your entertainment since you are taking what's right there in front of you and ruining it yourself, like a spoiled little kid that breaks its toys because its upset.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I just want to point out to those of you making comments like these that you are completely devoid of integrity in this. If you had integrity, you would exercise the option of taking the hard path, but instead you choose the easy and blame others for not forcing your hand. You do not deserve any effort from the dev team towards your entertainment since you are taking what's right there in front of you and ruining it yourself, like a spoiled little kid that breaks its toys because its upset.

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Once again when PL become main steam no one going to want to party which then mean other players have to A: Solo or B: get a powerlevel.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Once again when PL become main steam no one going to want to party which then mean other players have to A: Solo or B: get a powerlevel.

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You are stating your opinion as if it was a fact. I´m sure there are people who will still want to party. Not everyone on the server has a PLer and those who do don´t have the person standing there 24/7 waiting for him to decide to get some exp.