AOE Toggle Needs to GO

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Originally Posted by Shai

Less and less freedom to play how I want to play. I get such a bad feeling about the future.
Did anyone tell Yoshida the best part of this game is the player controlled customization?

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No. In the Player Polls, we told him that the best thing about the game was the graphics, and that he should feel free to completely overhaul the rest game as long as he doesn't wipe character progress.

Ask and ye shall receive. :(

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

lol.. I like how its all "taking it to XI"... It's more like "taking it back to the Final Fantasy roots" (We'll probably get Cure I, Cure II, Cure III, Curaga I, Curaga II) just like in the other FF titles...this was not new and exclusive to XI, and to even consider the fact either shows that you never played the FF series and/or you just want to complain about complaining about fixing the game because of complaining.

They are readjusting the current spells to be AoE or not, and gonna add the new AoE versions (I believe it what Bayohne was trying to slyly point out)

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We're mentioning XI because the battle system from previous single player FFs was completely different from the mechanics found in an MMORPG.

When they remove the AoE toggle and add in extra versions of spells, they either 1) further restrict what mages can do since they'll be required (due to mob behavior and the f-ed up claim system) to have both versions loaded into the already clunky and limiting action bar(s), or 2) do away with the action points/bars meaning we'll be able to cast any spell at any time, and have to set up macros to use them as quickly as we need to.

The first option makes the game even worse, the second makes the mage battle mechanics exactly the same as XI.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

What makes any DoM player think they deserve every spell they have to be AoE? Dragging up random situations where XXX spell has to be AoE is pointless, these changes are not done in a vacuum like most of you would like to believe.

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Go single-target protect/shell your party.

It's ok, I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

lol.. I like how its all "taking it to XI"... It's more like "taking it back to the Final Fantasy roots" (We'll probably get Cure I, Cure II, Cure III, Curaga I, Curaga II) just like in the other FF titles...this was not new and exclusive to XI, and to even consider the fact either shows that you never played the FF series and/or you just want to complain about complaining about fixing the game because of complaining.

They are readjusting the current spells to be AoE or not, and gonna add the new AoE versions (I believe it what Bayohne was trying to slyly point out)

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I'd really like to know what FFs you're talking about since lolXI was the only one that had -agas as AoEs. Every other FF used -aga/-aja as the tier for that spell. And most spells could be toggled to be single target or all.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I prodded for some more details about the system to hopefully give you guys a better understanding at what the current plan is. The current policy of allowing spells to be cast both as an individual-target and AoE will be done away with. During the armoury system improvements spells will be evaluated and determined whether they will be an individual target spell or an AoE spell on a case by case basis.

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Once again, the dev team does something good and then ends up taking 2 steps backwards. Try playing a mage on just about any endgame monster, and you will know that just about every spell needs to be AoE at some point.

is it that friggen hard to press z? if you're really worried about it, make two macros for your spells, one with aoe, and one without. Removing the trigger is a stupid idea that isnt worth the time it'll take to change.

Thank You Dev Team! This is a good step in fixing the mage classes, I am extremely excited to hear they are going to evaluate "EVERY SINGLE SPELL ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS!"

Anyone who intended to be a main class healer should be rejoicing being able to cast any spell aoe/single target with the press of a button and with zero consequences to MP consumption/spell bar requirements etc will now be able to take a tactical approach to casting spells. What is worth it in each situation? This goes to the heart of FFXIV's problems where everything was designed to be so damn mainstreamed and 1 size fits all, this change helps encourage unique setups, pre party planning, and helps distinguish good players from lazy poor ones.

A good healer in an MMO should not be relegated to spamming sacrafice II all day long, I can take that little toy woodpecker from the simpsons episode where homer causes a powerplant meltdown to do that job. Now you will have to think about conserving MP with a single target spike cure vs poping curaga III when the party gets AoE'd. Also allows the devs to individualize the emnity generated from each type of cure to help distinguish a true healer build vs the guy who is curing as a MRD.

*facepalm* they are going to remove the AOE toggle?! good lord I swear what the hell is this Dev team doing!.........

They need to stop listening to people on these forums because half of em dont know what the hell they are talking about -.-

I really the more SE rolls over and makes these kinds of changes..... the more I loose the desire to bother with this game anymore......

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

*facepalm* they are going to remove the AOE toggle?! good lord I swear what the hell is this Dev team doing!.........

They need to stop listening to people on these forums because half of em dont know what the hell they are talking about -.-

I really the more SE rolls over and makes these kinds of changes..... the more I loose the desire to bother with this game anymore......

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Too bad people want MMO standards in this game even though it doesn't need them.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I prodded for some more details about the system to hopefully give you guys a better understanding at what the current plan is. The current policy of allowing spells to be cast both as an individual-target and AoE will be done away with. During the armoury system improvements spells will be evaluated and determined whether they will be an individual target spell or an AoE spell on a case by case basis.

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For the love of god no..... what is the team thinking?.... This is a very very bad idea -.-

There was nothing wrong with the toggle of AOE, is was a matter of hitting the button on your controller or keyboard, or even adding it to a macro for your spells, and it was set.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Too bad people want MMO standards in this game even though it doesn't need them.

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there is a difference in bringing things to standards, and changing something that was fine to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

there is a difference in bringing things to standards, and changing something that was fine to begin with.

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Nah, I said that because other MMOs use that system to define AoE or non-AoE attacks.
Also there are other MMO standards that aren't needed, like Jumping. About the AH there are good reasons to implement it.

I hope this is the last time they listen to other suggestions like these, as I'd like to see what the Dev team can do with THEIR hands.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Nah, I said that because other MMOs use that system to define AoE or non-AoE attacks.
Also there are other MMO standards that aren't needed, like Jumping. About the AH there are good reasons to implement it.

I hope this is the last time they listen to other suggestions like these, as I'd like to see what the Dev team can do with THEIR hands.

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ah yeah, I agree.... this is starting to get sad, and oddly enough all these changes are making me loose interest in the game -.-

I was all for making the game better, it had its problems, auto attack was fine, even removing physical levels was fine, but removing the AOE toggle...... stupid.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I prodded for some more details....

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You haz a cattleprodder?!?

Share!

Anywayz, i see alot of mixed feelings about this...
I both like & dislike the AoE toggle.
I want buff spells to be active AoE by default, and maybe bring back Cure 1-?, and curaga...etc.

But seeing so many diffrent opinions about this AoE toggle,
id prolly leave the function as option for those who like it.

Cant be too hard to add some coding to the options / Settings menu, just to please both sides.

Personally, I'm just glad SE doesn't listen to people who are actually in favor of the way everything was before. People don't seem to think of balance over this "I want to be able to do everything!!!! >(((" nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Personally, I'm just glad SE doesn't listen to people who are actually in favor of the way everything was before. People don't seem to think of balance over this "I want to be able to do everything!!!! >(((" nonsense.

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pff... even WoW isn't balanced and it's restrictive, so what?

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Personally, I'm just glad SE doesn't listen to people who are actually in favor of the way everything was before. People don't seem to think of balance over this "I want to be able to do everything!!!! >(((" nonsense.

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Except adding different MP costs/hate generation for AoE was completely possible with toggle. There was no need to remove a perfectly good and unique system in favor of forcing mages to load up on even more spells.

The only thing I'm worried about is if it's Fire I is single, Fire II is AoE then you're being forced to use the less potent spell for a single target and the more potent spell for AoE. Hopefully they balance it out where single target > more damage, focused. AoE > less damage per target, spread out. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's how it will be considering FF does tiers of single spells for the entire element. Other MMOs have entirely different spells for single target and AoE that can gain greater potency in their own tiers.

While I don't normally jump in on these sorts of threads, this change has me concerned. As several posters have mentioned before removing the AoE toggle restricts play further--and ultimately in my mind doesn't really solve the issue. Though we don't know specifically how it is going to be implemented, the most likely way has been stated several times before (e.g. Fire to Fire, Fire II to Firaga).

If that is the case, and we are given Fire, Fira, and Firaga in place of the spells we already have, in order to achieve the same versatility we have today with AoE toggle we will be required to equip at least two of the versions of the same spell. At present we can equip one and toggle with the AoE button. This makes every spell designed like this (regardless of change in action points) more expensive to equip because it takes 2 slots out of 30 instead of 1. Meaning to have full versatility in spells you're taking up about 6.67% of your action bar for just one elemental spell instead of 3.33% which it is now.

Further more, the people who complain about AoE toggle are likely going to still complain about the two actions because they will accidentally hit the auto-AoE spell instead of the single and become mad and frustrated. Right now, if you toggle AoE off, it stays off for every single spell you cast until you turn it back on.

I'm not very hopeful with this change--but I will reserve final judgment until I actually see it implemented.

@Bayohne--is it possible to get further details or an example of how some spells (offensive, defensive, debuff, buff and curative) will be addressed if this is already known?

(And, to everyone complaining about the time it takes for the AoE toggle button to come up--that's not a game mechanic issue, I still feel AoE toggle works perfectly fine. That right there is a problem with the UI and how sluggish it is, still. If that was your main complaint with the AoE toggle you should have raised an issue with the UI itself, not the AoE toggle mechanic.)

Ugh, i can only imagine how much more painful this will be for a caster.

Taking away toggle is totally nerfing the casting system. It is a lil of a hinderance having to hit enter/x once more to cast, but having aoe toggle is great option for a caster.

(My beef is with the action bar, and arrow keys. I have trouble moving around the action bar up and down. I hit arrow keys loose my target, then have to spam arrow up or down wotever to get to the bar i want, retarget, the activate move. Then go back to bar. This happens occasionally when i havnt pressed a button in a few sec.)

Neways~
Taking this away along with the implication of auto attack really is making my faith in this game go away. Ive stuck through this in hopes it will get better, but im seeing it get more and more bland.

I am a hardcoreish gamer. I like to play video games been playing them since i was in diapers (had an intelevision in my room when i was 1). Im not a casual gamer, and i like the challenge FF11 was as an MMO. It was way more difficult then all other mmo's ive played.

So having a game get easier on me makes me not want to play it anymore. With AA, supposed removal of aoe toggle, shady "difficult content" coming out i am getting more doubts. Doubts i do not want to have for FF.

Ugh ive ranted. I'm done.

The longer this team is developing on FFXIV, the more I see it being transformed into XI-2.

I loved the AOE Toggle, and thought it was one of the best battle ideas in the game. The removal of this because of complaints from lazy or people whom cant pay attention or create macro's to do this is pure ignorance on the development team.

I do somehow feel this was already being removed before this OP's post and that the whole plan was to convert to a more FFXI battle style. The reasoning behind this might be because its easier to adjust difficulty of a mob with all these battle adjustments. I do have a feeling that battle after they are done with these patches will not be the same, or close to it.

Again, I will preach that the real need is to remove leve's or make them a solo only thing to do that doesn't give you 200k+ SP every other day. These should be supplemental, and not primary ways of Ranking up.

I really wish you would reconsider the AOE Toggle feature and leave it in the game. I would also love an idea of what the battle system is going to change to...

Will we still get Cure/Sacrifice on other classes than mage?
Will Actions be interchangeable between classes?
Are we doing away with the Action bar? Or are we making the action bar larger with lower Action costs per spell/ability?
Are we going to see EXP Chains and Skill Chains?
Are you going to speed up the mob spawn rate so we can actually grind in parties?
Are you going to increase the difficulty of this game so most of us can have a challenge?

Plenty more questions, and Bayonne, if you can, please get answers for these... Thank you...

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Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

While I don't normally jump in on these sorts of threads, this change has me concerned. As several posters have mentioned before removing the AoE toggle restricts play further--and ultimately in my mind doesn't really solve the issue. Though we don't know specifically how it is going to be implemented, the most likely way has been stated several times before (e.g. Fire to Fire, Fire II to Firaga).

If that is the case, and we are given Fire, Fira, and Firaga in place of the spells we already have, in order to achieve the same versatility we have today with AoE toggle we will be required to equip at least two of the versions of the same spell. At present we can equip one and toggle with the AoE button. This makes every spell designed like this (regardless of change in action points) more expensive to equip because it takes 2 slots out of 30 instead of 1. Meaning to have full versatility in spells you're taking up about 6.67% of your action bar for just one elemental spell instead of 3.33% which it is now.

Further more, the people who complain about AoE toggle are likely going to still complain about the two actions because they will accidentally hit the auto-AoE spell instead of the single and become mad and frustrated. Right now, if you toggle AoE off, it stays off for every single spell you cast until you turn it back on.

I'm not very hopeful with this change--but I will reserve final judgment until I actually see it implemented.

@Bayohne--is it possible to get further details or an example of how some spells (offensive, defensive, debuff, buff and curative) will be addressed if this is already known?

(And, to everyone complaining about the time it takes for the AoE toggle button to come up--that's not a game mechanic issue, I still feel AoE toggle works perfectly fine. That right there is a problem with the UI and how sluggish it is, still. If that was your main complaint with the AoE toggle you should have raised an issue with the UI itself, not the AoE toggle mechanic.)

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Agree with all. I even mentioned like, all of those points in the first anti-AOE toggle thread, without the %s. Bt they all got brushed to the side. There were other problems that could have added restrictions or penalties to selective AOE. Problem I see, people seem to want this rushed and not thought out, Even tho some claim to want things done right. people seem to really want everything rushed.

just push emotion buttom when choose target before cast.This game system not support swap equip when fight like ffxi so it mean less to make alot combo of macro so just check on or off... that easy to control and... mage can't combo buff ability in pt by hate control -3-"

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Originally Posted by Reika

Agree with all. I even mentioned like, all of those points in the first anti-AOE toggle thread, without the %s. Bt they all got brushed to the side. There were other problems that could have added restrictions or penalties to selective AOE. Problem I see, people seem to want this rushed and not thought out, Even tho some claim to want things done right. people seem to really want everything rushed.

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I didn't have much of a chance to read through all previous posts--so I likely missed yours Reika--even though it seems I mostly reiterated your sentiments. To your point about people wanting things rushed, I cringe every time I see some of these proposed changes (and read some of the threads), a lot of people are really impatient. While their impatience is certainly justified to a point, I'd much rather see something done right even if it takes longer. Otherwise we'll have a repeat of last September's launch of XIV, but in patch form.

the biggest issue i notice, is this was the unique play mechanic of conjurer and thaumaturge. It looks like they are scrapping class having different play mechanics rather than building on it. This was something that made mage classes more unique instead of less. What are they going to add to replace the loss of a major job mechanic? what is going to be different about the basic styles of play of a thaum and a con? i hope they start adding like basic skills that alter basic playstyles, so being a mage is not as simple as just having different spells, and identical in every other way, which it looks like they are doing.

people who dont' want AoE toggle are not saying they are too lazy to push the damn button, the button should have nothing to do with this change. The problem is that its harder to balance all aspects of a spell with the toggle:

how much MP should a spell cost? does the MP change based on whats toggled? how does the system show you before you choose the desired spell if u can cast it? How much emnity does it generate /w or w/o aoe toggle?

ex. you have 30mp, you need 24 to cast Sacrafice III. But wait you wanna click AoE toggle now it costs 124MP and the spell fails? this is the kind of clunky play that the button creates. The way around this was making aoe/single target the same MP which SUCKS this creates a zombie of THM's main healing afk style by spamming Sac-II all day long.

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the biggest issue i notice, is this was the unique play mechanic of conjurer and thaumaturge.

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almost certain that they are not going to allow cross class jobs to use aga version of mage specific spells I would not worry about that part. They will make them job specific. I think removing aoe toggle also allows them to further define what a CON vs THM is rather then the only current distinction being CON gets a crappy AOE circle where THM gets a monster cone.

ie, a CON can now get CURAGA III where a THM might only get Curaga-I. Allowing CON to be further developed into a main healer and THM being a more effective enfeebler type mage.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

people who dont' want AoE toggle are not saying they are too lazy to push the damn button, the button should have nothing to do with this change. The problem is that its harder to balance all aspects of a spell with the toggle:

how much MP should a spell cost? does the MP change based on whats toggled? how does the system show you before you choose the desired spell if u can cast it? How much emnity does it generate /w or w/o aoe toggle?

ex. you have 30mp, you need 24 to cast Sacrafice III. But wait you wanna click AoE toggle now it costs 124MP and the spell fails? this is the kind of clunky play that the button creates. The way around this was making aoe/single target the same MP which SUCKS this creates a zombie of THM's main healing afk style by spamming Sac-II all day long.

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actually this is about people that are not smart enough to click the button. it has little to do with being lazy and much more to do with being fail at that job. the biggest complaint throughout this thread was people accidentally forgetting they have aoe on and attacking other mobs. that is fail on the user not fail on the game.

your example is fail in the aspect they already have the spell cost seperated and works just fine when using spiritbind to half the mp cost and it works fluidly. it would be a simple fix to have the single spell cost the same as what a spell does while under spirtibind and the aoe versions be the normal cost. then casting aoe spells costs twice what the normal single cast spell does. all you guys want is a change for the sake of change and could care less how it affects the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

almost certain that they are not going to allow cross class jobs to use aga version of mage specific spells I would not worry about that part. They will make them job specific. I think removing aoe toggle also allows them to further define what a CON vs THM is rather then the only current distinction being CON gets a crappy AOE circle where THM gets a monster cone.

ie, a CON can now get CURAGA III where a THM might only get Curaga-I. Allowing CON to be further developed into a main healer and THM being a more effective enfeebler type mage.

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thm is vastly superior to con in its healing abilities. it is much more useful in a party as a healer.

You have some good points Tachikoma, but nothing you've brought up here couldn't have been addressed while maintaining the AoE toggle button functionality. It would require modifications to the UI, but still, removing the AoE toggle requires some UI modification any way. I just don't think that the arguments for removing AoE toggle are very good.

If you're worried about different MP costs, the toggle for AoE could be changed from a button to a "spell selection" which functions the exact same way, but instead of a green button you see something a bit more descriptive, e.g. [AoE Off] "Fire, MP: 10, Enmity: X, Recast: Y, ..." and then [AoE ON] "Firaga, MP: 15, Enmity: X+N, Recast: Y+N"

There is virtually no difference between this and the argument for separating spells into distinct equipable actions except in the fact that it creates less clutter on the action bar and you can be more versatile with the types of actions you equip. Further, SE could restrict the ability to toggle spells to AoE further, right now its just carte blanche "No AoE" for disciples of war, but there could be more advanced criteria that also apply to other disciples of magic, for example your suggestion that a THM might only be able to do single and AoE Cure I/Curaga I but not higher level Conjuer cure spells.

Hi Zhango, Reika,

I made this post buried somewhere in the page 30s section, ;) but this is one thing that I can see the developers going for that isn't about pushing an extra button or not:

Hi All (and Thanks Bayohne for the clarification!) ;),

There are definitely pros and cons to both systems, but one thing that this could do is allow Spells to have more unique characteristics.

I know the argument right now for many is "Well Cure II (w/ AOE Toggle) = Curaga, it just takes an extra slot now." That may be true but other types of attacks / skills are separated this way currently in various games.

For example, in most FPS games, there's a:

* Hand Pistol - Single Target
* Shotgun - Spread Shot, Short Distance, Massive Damage
* Rocket Launcher - Huge AOE, Big Damage

Would it be nice to have a Hand Pistol with an AOE Toggle, to hit 1 Enemy, or All Enemies in an AOE Cone? Sure. Would it be nice to have a Rocket Launcher that was Single Target and did massive damage to a Single Target with No Splash Damage? Or Toggle it to be AOE? Sure.

But that's what makes the Hand Pistol, or the Shotgun, or the Rocket Launcher what it is.

Same for Gladiator Weaponskills like Red Lotus (Single Target) vs. Circle Slash (AOE) vs. Luminous Spire (Hits 1 Target, AOE Blind). Red Lotus and Circle Slash are the exact same animation. Would it be nice to AOE Toggle Red Lotus or any Weaponskill whenever you want to? Sure. But we accept that "Red Lotus is a Single Target Horizontal Slashing Weaponskill" and "Circle Slash is an AOE Horizonal Slashing Weaponskill."

I think having these differences (without AOE Toggle) is what might make the Mages feel more unique, with different spells. Let's say, Cure I, II, will be Single Target, but, say a new Spell, "White Wind" is a curative spell that heals everyone in an area for an amount inbetween Cure I and II (so a 1.5 level of strength). That's the inherent quality and uniqueness of "White Wind" then.

Now, we can only hope that the Battle Team has more interesting effects / augmentations than just making 1 spell Single Target, and 1 spell AOE. But like the examples above, I can see why they want to do away with the toggle. I'm fine with either system, but let's see what the changes are to all the Mage Spells before we go crucifying the team.

lol You people speak as if the player community is going to allow you to not play inside the predetermined "Job" of your class. Do you not remember XI? It wont matter if you can use AOE on none mage jobs because you will be kicked out of your party if you even consider casting a spell as a melee within 3 months of these battle changes.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

lol You people speak as if the player community is going to allow you to not play inside the predetermined "Job" of your class. Do you not remember XI? It wont matter if you can use AOE on none mage jobs because you will be kicked out of your party if you even consider casting a spell as a melee within 3 months of these battle changes.

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Whm/Thf? [Do you need it?]

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Originally Posted by Kiara

I made this post buried somewhere in the page 30s section, ;) but this is one thing that I can see the developers going for that isn't about pushing an extra button or not [...]

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I actually did read your post earlier Kiara :) It was well thought out. I do agree with the points that you made, but would like to point out that your analogy of firearms may not necessarily be appropriate. It depends on a few things--but and most importantly--if magic in Hydaelyn (and Eorzea specifically) is versatile (which it seems to be) the restriction of magic to single or multiple targets is not a result of how a spell functions but rather how it is used. Unlike with firearms whose area of effect (be it single or multiple) is a product of how they function.

Of course my argument for this is no less infallible. The point still being that a firearm analogy is good, but is only anecdotal at best.

I do agree that there are benefits that can be seen by the actions that they are taking--specifically mentioned by you and others, that this may allow the developers to create more unique play experiences based on the sort of spells and actions that are offered to the spell casting classes. But I still think that this could have been done without a removal of AoE toggle--and just a rework of the existing mechanic.

Now, I hope you're right that the battle team has some better ideas than just making some spells AoE and others not. I think that it is important for people to express their opinions on this, as we are, but since it looks like this is happening regardless, we'll have to wait and see what the new battle system is like before judging it. I know that I'm reserving final judgment until after the changes are made, and others should as well, but discourse is still important.

... All that being said--I'm still left feeling uneasy about this change without any further details that would better explain their plans.

I love the AoE toggle. Always works great for me unless I lag a little. I do not want to have two spells for each spell. I don't want to have to worry about Protect and Protectra or Fire and Firaga. I like it the way it is personally. Instead of a flurry of multiple bars here and there and so on I like just being able to hit one button. And if I want it off or on as long as I want I can just toggle it. I like the unique feel. I don't really want to play every other MMO out there.

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Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

I actually did read your post earlier Kiara :) It was well thought out. I do agree with the points that you made, but would like to point out that your analogy of firearms may not necessarily be appropriate. It depends on a few things--but and most importantly--if magic in Hydaelyn (and Eorzea specifically) is versatile (which it seems to be) the restriction of magic to single or multiple targets is not a result of how a spell functions but rather how it is used. Unlike with firearms whose area of effect (be it single or multiple) is a product of how they function.

Of course my argument for this is no less infallible. The point still being that a firearm analogy is good, but is only anecdotal at best.

I do agree that there are benefits that can be seen by the actions that they are taking--specifically mentioned by you and others, that this may allow the developers to create more unique play experiences based on the sort of spells and actions that are offered to the spell casting classes. But I still think that this could have been done without a removal of AoE toggle--and just a rework of the existing mechanic.

Now, I hope you're right that the battle team has some better ideas than just making some spells AoE and others not. I think that it is important for people to express their opinions on this, as we are, but since it looks like this is happening regardless, we'll have to wait and see what the new battle system is like before judging it. I know that I'm reserving final judgment until after the changes are made, and others should as well, but discourse is still important.

... That and I'm still left feeling uneasy about this change without any further details that would better explain their plans.

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Hi Zhango,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. :)

Oh definitely, it's one of those things that works, if it makes sense in the "lore" of the world of the particular game. :) If one can control the magical flow in Eorzea, then wouldn't allowing Red Lotus be toggleable be the same as well? I think it gives a nice freedom to every DoW class, but at the same time, we've gotten used to "Red Lotus" being a single target, and "Circle Slash" being an AOE. I'm fine with either system, but I can see why they may want to try it this way.

And a great point Zhango: Ultimately it would've been great for them to fully explain themselves about this. I feel that sometimes when we get a tiny bit of new information (via the forums), SE may sometimes be doing more harm than good. In this case, it might've been better to not say anything and unveil their full plans for Disciples of Magic (All Spell Changes, All Skill Changes, Job Specialization, the Focus of the Class), instead of just leaking this one bit of information.

Ultimately, we'll see where this goes (hopefully soon). :)

You aren't able to change Red Lotus or Circle Slash because they are bound to and formed by a weapon. Mages work with the raw magic, Gladiators simply briefly enchant their blade with Red Lotus.

God I'm sick of people talking about "unique" features in XIV being scrapped. An AoE toggle is nothing unique, its a not well thought through way of implementing spells. There can't be any balance for spells if the spell can be used as Single or AoE. Otherwise they would have to use algorhythms that will reduce effect of spells based on the amounf of targets hit. This is unneccesarry complicated BS. Give me Cure/Curaga, Sleep/Sleepga etc etc and everything is fine again.

This is a FF, even though its an MMO, and having Single Spells and AoE Spells(ending with either a number or a -ga) is part of FF! Stop pulling that stupid uniqueness BS card over and over.

Except they're still going to have to do that with the I,II,II/-ra, -ga, -ja spells. You think they'll have the same MP cost, enmity generation and damage as their single target counterparts? Sorely mistaken. They'll have to do it either way, one just involves adding more icons to your bar.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

God I'm sick of people talking about "unique" features in XIV being scrapped. An AoE toggle is nothing unique, its a not well thought through way of implementing spells. There can't be any balance for spells if the spell can be used as Single or AoE. Otherwise they would have to use algorhythms that will reduce effect of spells based on the amounf of targets hit. This is unneccesarry complicated BS. Give me Cure/Curaga, Sleep/Sleepga etc etc and everything is fine again.

This is a FF, even though its an MMO, and having Single Spells and AoE Spells(ending with either a number or a -ga) is part of FF! Stop pulling that stupid uniqueness BS card over and over.

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False, the only FF that had -aga spells as exclusively AoE was XI. In the rest of the FFs that these suffixes were present -a and -aga were tiers, much like II, III, etc. are. The only exception is Tactics, which still didn't limit II and III tiers to single target. Fact.

You're bringing up Hate/MP consequences to AoE, which could be added to the current system while retaining toggle, and is pretty much off topic. Nobody is arguing against balancing hate/MP cost/damage spread, etc. Anyway, having -aga spells would be the same as what we currently have, only more limiting to our options as mages.

AoE Toggle is a unique feature of this game, and a streamlined way MECHANICALLY to toggle AoE.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

You aren't able to change Red Lotus or Circle Slash because they are bound to and formed by a weapon. Mages work with the raw magic, Gladiators simply briefly enchant their blade with Red Lotus.

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Hi Arcell,

True, but what's to say in this world, that there's a particular set of enchanted Magic Words that cause a widespread Cone of Flame, and another set of enchanted Magic Words that produces a Single Flame Arrow (single target) attack?

Ultimately, it's suspension of disbelief and what you or I may believe how magic works in Eorzea.

Right now, the developers have chosen to re-examine magic and all spells in the game. We'll see where they go with it. It could be fine, or it could be very bad.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

False, only FF had -aga spells as exclusively AoE was XI. In the rest of the FFs that these suffixes were present -a and -aga were tiers, much like II, III, etc. are. The only exception is Tactics, which still didn't limit II and III tiers to single target. Fact.

You're bringing up Hate/MP consequences to AoE, which could be added to the current system while retaining toggle, and is pretty much off topic. Nobody is arguing against balancing hate/MP cost/damage spread, etc. Anyway, having -aga spells would be the same as what we currently have, only more limiting to our options as mages.

AoE Toggle is a unique feature of this game, and a streamlined way MECHANICALLY to toggle AoE.

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Agreed, thank you. Couldn't have said it better. Which also reminds me, the whole final fantasy concept aren't really supposed to be connected, all difference worlds and events through out the entire series (Minus a few continuations) with similiar spells. Final Fantasy is a set of stories and games, not a religion of what spells and so on, should be. Always room for advancement and uniqueness.
On top of that.. I would like to keep my aoe stoneskin and aoe shock spikes, they aren't going to be making stoneskin-aga or similar for shock spikes.