Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

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Originally Posted by Intellion

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I like how you know everything about my life (you know how and how much i played my bard in previous contents)

Anyway SE actions are clear on this matter, and they are game designers by profession (Yoshi-p also saved a game that was dead and now has 5 millions users), if they made such an hard choice maybe what i told was not so incredible.

Honestly the only thing that should even matter is this; Post about Bard and the fact we are being fixed regardless of what anyone says. Let the dev's do the job they are being paid to do and let us give the appropriate feedback when the content or fixes goes wrong.

Otherwise once it's acknowledged then just let them be and fix what needs to be fixed before complaining more, also just because one person wants to troll or another whines doesn't mean we aren't going to get the fixes we need in the end so relax people.

http://m0.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/...h-FacePalm.gif

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Lewt literally just contradicted themselves in their last post by saying Musa said bards should do as much DPS as other DPS...

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Blech, this was poor wording on my part. I just want to clear this up and I'll be done.

I wasn't saying that Musa was saying that bards should have equal DPS. I was saying that only people like Musa have been saying that we (and by we I mean Intell, myself, and others) have been saying that bards need equal DPS. Basically he and others would put those words in our mouths, cause if you see, we all kept saying we want more damage, not just as much.

That clarified, yes, the devs have taken notice already. These posts have been rather redundant obviously, but when has that ever stopped anyone on here so far? It's good to vent though; people feel things need be said and they say them, despite being contested or not. And I have said my piece, though I'm sure I could have said it better, so I'm pretty much good on this topic.

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding things.

A Bard and Machinist's main duty is to provide a below average amount of DpS and increase the group's average DpS through TP/MP Regen and a Physical or Magical Damage boosts. The combination of the below average DpS and the DpS gained by others through TP/MP Regen + Foe Requiem/Hot Shot is supposed to allow them to provide roughly the same DpS as the other ranged classes.

Average DpS comes in 2 states "Mobile DpS" and "Stationary DpS." All classes were balanced during 2.X around only Mobile DpS. When Stationary DpS fights such as The Avatar were added, problems started appearing as Bard Mobile DpS and Stationary DpS are the same while every other class has a sharp increase in DpS between Mobile and Stationary.

Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel are intended to rectify this difference in Mobile/Stationary DpS. The problem is that these abilities were overbalanced and ended up not providing the boost in Stationary DpS they were intended to. Perhaps the best/simplest way to fix the problem is to increase the amount that WM and GB increase damage by around 15% of base damage.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Blech, this was poor wording on my part. I just want to clear this up and I'll be done.

I wasn't saying that Musa was saying that bards should have equal DPS. I was saying that only people like Musa have been saying that we (and by we I mean Intell, myself, and others) have been saying that bards need equal DPS. Basically he and others would put those words in our mouths, cause if you see, we all kept saying we want more damage, not just as much.

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More dps... not just as much....? anyways... if you meant you want more dps than what you do now then WM will probably be up your alley when it's fixed but you won't ever have more dps than a dragoon or monk.... and I just did a serious back track on his whole converse... it's all about mobility vs songs along with bards doing low dps never about you wanting as much even Intel said was low dps was a bard thing before this patch so she technically agreed...

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Originally Posted by Intellion

So in ARR, these are what defined the different DPS classes:

Melee: High-powered, instant melee attacks. Mobile.
Casters: High-powered ranged spells with casting times. Immobile.
Ranged: Low-powered, instant ranged attacks. Mobile.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

Our DPS doesn't have to be high. It's a tradeoff we get for our mobility and utility. After all, our class is all about mobility since we compensate for our low damage by being able to maintain DPS while dodging and rapid-firing oGCDs and procs. Just expand on our current gameplay without drastically changing it

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And from what I read, Intel doesn't even have a problem doing low dps, it's mobility issues with WM because WM isn't showing any real boost unless I'm misunderstanding something. -.- You were fighting with him about the whole song vs movement stuff and wanting more dps and he never even said bard should do less, he said they currently do less by the way also that songs are a big deal for our job and what we are used for.

Anyways... My head hurts and I'm done with this thread, if you want more DPS than you have atm then wait for WM fixes, don't whine about it....


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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Otherwise, you put those words in our mouths, not ourselves

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Yep, I did say it and I stand by it 100% and yes some people have said it before and I am against them but I also said these posters, not you or intel or anyone else. I'm not willing to backtrack to every post or thread to post names etc either so that was easier to say and not to be rude but my every posts or comments don't revolve around you nor intel nor is every piece of a post directed at either of you and the reply wasn't even to you but a reply to someone else.

and you may want to correct your last post too because it can be misunderstood like that which is why I asked because I wasn't putting that in your mouth.. but you legit said the below soooo and I even said that Intel's problem was with movement in WM..

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

cause if you see, we all kept saying we want more damage, not just as much.

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I just thought of an amusing buff that'd make bards everyone's favorite party support member again: Let WM add a 5% DPS bonus to everyone else in the group, in addition to our 20% bonus. Right now we get Foe's but that only applies to elemental damage.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

A Bard and Machinist's main duty is to provide a below average amount of DpS and increase the group's average DpS through TP/MP Regen and a Physical or Magical Damage boosts. The combination of the below average DpS and the DpS gained by others through TP/MP Regen + Foe Requiem/Hot Shot is supposed to allow them to provide roughly the same DpS as the other ranged classes.

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If thats true then we need a melee buff songs, maybe some avoidance, +crit, +accuracy... you know, buffs. Actual buffs. Because some crappy 10% magic damage debuff (no its actually -resistance)that only helps with casters, and resource regens that youll never need with experienced players, sounds like a whole lot of bulldookie for a class thats not only does less damage while buffing the group, it also takes a another nerf by design.

Even WoW hunters get much better group buffs (definitely better for DPS) than we do. All the while DPSing with the best of them. Thats just a damned shame.

I deeply regret leveling MCH. I've never felt this way about a class before in an MMO

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Limit.

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I see you missed the point I had made that I've been using Wanderer's, but agree that it needs to provide better damage. And yes, more damage, just not as much >as other DPS<. You missed that context right there.

And fair point, it was never Musa that said it. I've gotten confused, it was you who claimed we were making a call that we wanted to do just as much as other DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I'm against these posters who are talking like they want to do more DPS to reach up to other DPS'ers period when they have so many benefits to the job as it is

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This is what I was saying. It wasn't "Oh, he said Bards need do equal DPS" it was "You Bards keeping saying you want to do equal DPS" which neither me nor Intell ever said.

Not to say some haven't said it, but as to how often people agreed with them is the point. Most of us aren't in that boat. If you see that we have said it, then please point it out to me, and this will need to be verbatim. Otherwise, you put those words in our mouths, not ourselves.

So my apologies to you, Musa. Disagree as we will, I flubbed bad on that.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Anyways... My head hurts and I'm done with this thread, if you want more DPS than you have atm then wait for WM fixes, don't whine about it....

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This is why I should learn to stop trying, lol.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

If thats true then we need a melee buff songs, maybe some avoidance, +crit, +accuracy... you know, buffs. Actual buffs. Because some crappy 10% magic damage debuff (no its actually -resistance)that only helps with casters, and resource regens that youll never need with experienced players, sounds like a whole lot of bulldookie for a class thats not only does less damage while buffing the group, it also takes a another nerf by design.

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I was going to point out the same thing lol. If support abilities are truly the reason to keep DPS low (as removing the mobility is clearly already on the table), then they can't go half-assed on it. Why make a BRD player feel gimped because he's in a group with only melee jobs (or maybe only 1 caster in a healing intensive 8-man). Why put them into a position where they must permanently do less damage for their assigned role/slot (DPS), but makes their support situational with very limited uptime, and in the case of TP/MP regen, reduce their damage output even more? There is very little doubt to the necessity for progression raiding when Alexander Savage is released... but then what? Why bother with a job with unnecessary situational support and gimped DPS taking up a slot that some other job with minor party buffs could overwhelmingly better fill the role (e.g. DRG or NIN)?

If they (the devs and players) want to focus on the support aspect so much, then make more (or better) support abilities to justify the job taking up a role that it's not even performing up to par for. Why make a job that is only intended to be useful for progression raids, when they'll just be obsolete or pointless come farm status or in every other part of the game? LOL You just make the players who take up these jobs (BRD and MCH) feel like they made a bad choice or that they're being a burden upon the party for the grand majority of content in the game.