While i don’t agree the 48man savage should be cut for ultimate...
Just out of curiosity since some many people mentioned how ultimate is only for 1% of players... how many % of player is going to clear DR Savage?
Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?
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02-15-2021, 10:31 AMLyraleiManagem
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02-15-2021, 10:36 AMValkyrie_LennethMore people if they didn't write it off as "bad content" immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyraleiManagem
This is one of those "SE never does anything different" "why did they do that, no one wants it" things... -
02-15-2021, 10:39 AMSturmChurroNo. It's one of those "SE implemented it poorly" things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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02-15-2021, 10:47 AMMPKFOURTY EIGHT man SAVAGE locked behind CASUAL CONTENTQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
People want stuff like mythic+ type dungeons, not garbage like this! -
02-15-2021, 10:49 AMValkyrie_LennethI mean technically Savage and Ultimate are locked behind casual content. The whole game is casual content.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
Mythic+ is what? same dungeons with harder difficulty over and over again to make them harder and harder? That doesn't really sound any more interesting to me.
I'd rather have new content. Or just make old content harder via min ilvl roulettes. -
02-15-2021, 10:51 AMSturmChurroThe hilarious part is, people here keep constantly saying that the only people who even do savage, or high end raiding, are a TINY portion of the playerbase. Yet we get that 48-man savage actually locked behind casual content. There should be no issue getting people for this content! Oh, but SE never does anything wrong, we cannot criticize SE. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
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02-15-2021, 10:59 AMMrJPtheAssassinYou can criticize SE all you want but OP is doing nothing but being a troll. I have yet seen him say anything good about this game and all he does is complain. You can be criticized sure but to be completely negative about the game and its dev team all the time is dumb. Just quit playing, stoping your sub, and move on instead of sitting on the forum bitching about how the game isn't made just for them and wish it was more like wow. Do you know what game is like wow? WOWQuote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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02-15-2021, 11:05 AMMPKNonsense! The devs are doing a great job at ignoring the player base! I've never seen a more deaf dev team before! Congrats on them for doing such a good job at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 11:06 AMValkyrie_LennethYou sure? I hear the WoW dev team is terrible at listening to its players.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
I legit do not understand why people who seem to hate 90% of a game, and want it to be a completely different game, keep giving that games developers money and playing it..
Just... go play the game you want. That's why I dont play WoW. I dislike the way that game works.. -
02-15-2021, 11:08 AMMrJPtheAssassinGood then leave! If you dont like the game get the F out and never come back. You nothing but toxic lala troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
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02-15-2021, 11:31 AMvan_arnPot calling the kettle black.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 12:04 PMMrJPtheAssassinIm not in here trying to start fights and bitching about thing not made for me. You can think Im toxic all you want I really dont care what a faceless internet person thinks of me. At least I enjoy FFXIV and not wishing it was Wow or any other mmorpg. If I dislike a game you know what I do? I stop playing it and move to another game. I hated WoW bc ppl there was toxic just like the OP so I came to FFXIV and never look back.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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02-15-2021, 12:18 PMLaylaTsarraNo they're not. You're not the player base even though you think you are and you sure don't speak for it. Get over yourself. Borja is very popular content atm in spite of the standard forum complaints and trolls trying to stir the pot. Relic complaints are nothing new. They are standard fare here on this forum regardless of which xpac we're taking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
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02-15-2021, 01:20 PMJirah
Imagine how vast SB would be if they didnt destroy resources by making Erueka?
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02-15-2021, 01:24 PMMrJPtheAssassinLove you called me a casual when if you look at my past post on this topic and look up my character, you see I do savage, I did all of eureka and BA, I'm proging UwU with plans doing the others ultimates. I am a hardcore raid no I actually do other things in-game other than raids but I am a mid-core raider at least. So you trying to use casual to describe me is far from the mark. All kinds make up a game community and that what makes a game great. If a game only focuses on one of them the game would die. If you and the OP don't like the fact FFXIV puts story and other things ahead of raiding then find another game. Don't sit here and try to make the game into a game that is already out there. It just means FFXIV isn't for you and that ok, you'll and the OP will live.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
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02-15-2021, 01:30 PMLaylaTsarraNothing wrong with Eureka. I'd do that willingly and have than have to run Void and Rab 36 times to satisfy those who didn't want to play the real relic content.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
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02-15-2021, 01:31 PMWoWNah, you're a casual. Only casuals pretend they're hardcore. Hardcore players' actions speak louder than words!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 01:33 PMVahlnirSays the supposed "hardcore" speaking louder with words than action.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
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02-15-2021, 01:37 PMMrJPtheAssassinThat the thing ass Im not even saying Im hardcore. If you read(which I starting to think you can't read at all) I said I wasn't hardcore. I'm a mid-core raider at least and also nothing wrong with being a casual so stop acting like is a virus or something. All kinds play this game and if YOU dont like it then you can spin on my middle finger.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
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02-15-2021, 01:42 PMWoWCan you stop lying!? smhQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
Next you're gonna say it was a typo! That is so predictable
As I predicted! Stop pretending to be hardcore and then deny you pretended when you get pointed out for being a casual!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 01:44 PMvan_arnSquare should make the best game they can. Their hubris after FFXI is exactly what caused 1.0, and ignoring the successes of other games will cause the same result in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
If that means stealing good concepts from WOW, they should steal those good concepts from WOW. This is, and always has been, the secret to Square's success.
Even XI wouldn't exist if they didn't have Everquest as a model to work off of. -
02-15-2021, 01:45 PMKaurhzMaking all game zones like Eureka is one of the few things in this thread you've made worthy of any praise. It'd add to the thrill whilst traversing the open world. Though I'm not sure how much you'd enjoy not being able to fly to quest locations, or mobs being equally as dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
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02-15-2021, 01:49 PMMrJPtheAssassinQuote:
Originally Posted by WoW
Nice with not including the full quote buddy. As you see my read post said "I am a hardcore raid no..." I may have worded that wrong most likely to my 2 hours of sleep I had last night but still the fact still stands I never said or meant I was a hardcore raider. Now, this is done Im done with you and your lvl 24 maraude butt. Good day sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 01:58 PMMrJPtheAssassinThat fine but if people want a game like wow they should play wow. Pretty much I have seen on here and other sites know the ff14 is known for its story more than anything and that it doesn't cater to the hardcore all the time. The delay of ultimate is a disappointment and I wish things were different but to me, they made the right choice because getting EW out in the fall is the better choice. The thing the OP and some others don't get this wasn't a choice between the 48 man savage, bozja, and the ultimate. It was a choice between delaying EW or ultimate and in the long run, I think getting an Expac out as soon as possible while dealing with a virus is more important to the game than the ultimate fight. Also, another reason I say what I said is that the OP acts like he in love with wow and hates FFXIV so that why I said why be here? so many others have told him he should just go play wow if he finds it more fun. Nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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02-15-2021, 02:00 PMMPKidk my casual raider friend's static are on e12s lion prog alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 02:01 PMVahlnirJust because WoW is a different game doesn't mean it's the "boogeyman". One can play both games and see the flaws in either of them, like I do. Currently on an extended hiatus from WoW, but I will return eventually as I always do. Fun fact, ARR was heavily influenced by WoW in its design. Very few MMOs that exist today paved their own way forward entirely. You have WoW partially to thank for that. You're welcome. Even WoW had to borrow ideas from what came before as well as their competition. FF XIV would be better served to borrow some more ideas from WoW, because some of what FF XIV doesn't work out very well. I think FF XIV suffers in some areas because they don't borrow enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 02:01 PMMrJPtheAssassingood for him, so?Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK
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02-15-2021, 02:02 PMMPKidk I think a midcore raider wouldve cleared e11s by nowQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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02-15-2021, 02:04 PMMrJPtheAssassinI understand that but for a game to grow in its own it has to break away for wow unless you want FFXIV to be known as a "Wow clone"Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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02-15-2021, 02:06 PMMrJPtheAssassinBefore you smart off my static has had a lot of miss nights and problems bc of irl deals and unlike some groups, we don't just kick someone because irl problems pop up. So before you jump to conclusions know all the facts :PQuote:
Originally Posted by MPK
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02-15-2021, 02:14 PMvan_arnIt is a wow clone, though. It's always been a wow clone since ARR. It will always be a wow clone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
It's a wow clone in the same way XI was an Everquest clone.
This is fine. Square puts their own spin on things.
I want more people to play FFXIV. If that means other games have great features we can use here, then we need them too. Especially if Square can implement them with their own spin. -
02-15-2021, 02:21 PMStarflake
If there is anything I have taken away from this whole debate, it's that the "casual" playerbase is the most toxic online community I have ever seen and confirms my suspicion that this community is a positive toxic one. It almost makes me physically ill to think off how two faced and "good" this community is. Blindly defending a company that just wishes to bank on you. Like kissing the ball that chains you.
The fact that I as a player who only plays this game to raid, really has to wait for over two years for a piece of actual challenging content and over three years for a new Deep Dungeon (I like to solo) is ridiculous. The fact I have to eat it up, even more so. It just shows you what place we have in the line. 48 man savage? Pretty nice content actually, but good luck organizing it. New Blue Mage? Why even do it? For a title? It's just reused content after all with a bit of Blue Mage spice. Mahjong? Triple Triad updates? Constant crafter and gatherer changes? Parasols? Monk "rework"? Flying in ARR?
Like to me, it seems they put in so much crap nobody even asked for or it just blows my mind how it was prioritized over working on an actual Ultimate. Remember, original Ultimate supposed to be 5.3 but delayed as to spread it out towards the end of the expansion cycle. Which I thought was a great idea. But it means during all this time, they prioritized all this fluff stuff over actual content. Content that has not been in the game for so long. Even then, I took it on the chin. But for SE to come and say this so late into the tier is a disgusting move. I would not have spent any money on this game if I didn't think I needed to get BiS for Ultimate. It's shady and I as a customer feel blatantly used through omission of information. People keep moaning about covid-19 and SE. I have a difficult time too during the pandemic! I would have spent the 50 euros I could have saved on something else instead. Now to me it's just wasted money. I immediately quit, haven't even finished the tier as I don't care. -
02-15-2021, 02:29 PMVahlnirYou're painting with a pretty broad stroke there. Does FF XIV's player base have it's own brand of toxicity? Yeah, but that isn't everyone. I don't particularly care for being called something I'm not. I'm a casual with a lot of time and activity put into the game, and I never kiss the ball and chain. I'm usually very vocal on the forums if I disagree with them on something. I am also one of the least toxic casuals you will ever meet (in my opinion at least, I'm sure someone hates me somewhere though!) I do agree that the devs prioritize the wrong things at times though when more pressing matters should be attended to first. However, as far as this topic goes...it was the new expansion, or a new ultimate. They literally could not do both with how things are set up over there. So...pick your poison. A new expansion, at least another half a year away from the intended release date, or a new raid full of mini bosses. They had to prioritize what would upset the least amount of people, and that is exactly what they did. I don't think they should have had to made that call, but they said why. And it was completely understandable. You don't even have to believe them for their reasoning, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be true. You are also free to feel upset by this. That is also understandable. Good luck on your travels I guess. You won't find 0 toxicity regardless anywhere on the internet. Just...try not to be so judgy at your next destination, yeah? Especially when you don't even see the full picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflake
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02-15-2021, 02:40 PMWaterShieldWhat an interesting argument. Where was the Ultimate for Heavensward? You mean, before they started doing them? The precedent was started in Stormblood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-15-2021, 02:42 PMStarflakeAre we still at this immature stage where one has to clarify that obviously not all people are as I stated. You don't have to treat me like a toddler mate, I know the nuance and I expect this to be basic knowledge. Also I don't even know who you are but I guess you feel as if you are targeted ("I don't particularly care for being called something I'm not"). Maybe an eye opener for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
Quite convenient is it, that the content originally scheduled for August 11th last year had to be sacrificed to release the expansion on time, which is of course also delayed by the courtesy of Covid-19. We already have a delayed expansion. So again, I am asking why we got all this fluff nobody asked for and put their resources into Ultimate instead. Because you seem to ignore what I am actually saying. I am questioning if it really is that black and white (expansion v Ultimate). Seems to me a lot of bad decisions releasing content that's prioritized over an Ultimate. Nah this game has gotten incredibly lazy and I'm not afraid to say it. Reskinned content, Shadowbringers has been the absolute worst. I have seen very little actual originality at all and Ultimates follow that same pattern. Which is also why 6.1 is the final chance for me and I will quit the game.
What I am seeing this expansion:
- A lot of Mogstation stuff
- A lot of reskinning (poor gear sets, not much choice)
- A lot of reskinning of mobs (same skeletons etc)
- No Deep Dungeon
- Extremes quite poor (increasingly easy)
But most important for me personally, the raiding. We'll probably have three Unreal trials by the way by the end of the expansion? Again, it's a reused extremes which is using up resources. I just see so much in this expansion which could and actually should have given way to the Ultimate. But hey man, it's whatever for me. I lost 50 euros for no reason and I'm not touching the game till the next Expansion. SE is not your friend. They are greedy and they want your money. They don't love you. -
02-15-2021, 02:50 PMKaurhzEqual amounts of toxicity on both ends of the spectrum, especially in this thread. A lot of the comments you would find be more tamer if the initial proposal and feedback weren't akin to "Cut content I dislike"; whether the content is disliked by someone or not is not reason enough to make the comment, so of course you'll find people all the more eager to jump to the bait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflake
The outlined post title and what is proposed here solves 1 problem to create an equally bad problem for others. sure, you'll get Ultimate, but then people who genuinely enjoy the story get that cut short, so would people that genuinely enjoy the new large scale raids, people who actually enjoy Bozja, community feedback from this perspective is only going to be on behalf of that individual versus representative of the community at large, so your perception could equally be different from what is a reality in terms of feedback. That said, this implies in the first place that simply cutting or delaying content would create the resources for Ultimate to be done on time; coming to terms with how many of those working on Bozja, etc would be competent enough to handle the implementation or testing of Ultimate in the first place. If it would, then it's a different argument, but it's an awfully bold statement to make all things considered with it. They've done many questionable things this expansion otherwise, and I do agree personally with many things, but again...
All this does is potentially solves 1 problem by creating an entirely different problem. Where you guys would be happy, another equally, if not larger segment of the player base would be unhappy, so there's a certain level of hypocrisy that comes from this. It was in the end a no-win situation!
Now if we want to propose things that they could have done, then one could start of simply by how much development overhead would be required by allowing BLU to enter into Ultimates as a form of 'band-aid'.. If a party enters in with a complete BLU composition, then they could negate the original achievement for "The Legend" and then instead have another, a separate achievement like "Legend of the Blue" or something to compensate and make a distinction between those that do clear with BLU and those that don't. This additionally addresses their comment and fear of "We don't want people to potentially cheese Ultimates by using Blue Mage".
Again though, proposing a solution that drops 1 piece of content for another is not a solution at all, just trades places of 1 content with another. Whilst trading satisfaction between 2 separate 'spectrums' of the community. Doesn't make for a very productive conversation at all, so arguably the toxicity could be narrowed down to the original, counterproductive, and instigating suggestions. Someone with 500+ posts on this forum should know and be completely conscious of the backlash that would occur with such comments. I, like many, do feel for Ultimate-level raiders, but this was a no-win situation for everyone. I especially sympathize about PotD/HoH, but I would rather they innovate further on Deep Dungeon and the mechanics/concepts behind it than simply just a change of scenery with a new pomander.
There's been a severe lapse in judgment on many decisions they've made this expansion, no dispute, but I don't think they could forecast COVID, or it being this severe. -
02-15-2021, 02:57 PMStarflake
[QUOTE=Kaurhz;5505101]snip/QUOTE]
Haha this man has his toxicity meter ready at the hand to make out it's just about an even battle in toxic behaviour from people! I don't know why you have typed this wall of text that has nothing to do with what I am saying. Why even quote me at all to be honest? You are arguing with the OP's title and suggestion. One I have not made at all. So what's the point of this? At least your final paragraph has something to work with.
While sacrificing one piece of content for another does not inherently solve anything, it can be discussed if it's a good move or not. Releasing not a single Ultimate in over two years and a Deep Dungeon in over three years? Seems to me to that one of these two at least should be implemented over some of the things I mentioned above?
Again, I am not having these excuses, even though I know you mean well. -
02-15-2021, 02:57 PMWaterShieldQuote:
Originally Posted by Missbone
If you don't care about it so much, why are you arguing about it so much? Seems like a "waste of lifetime" to me. Seriously confusing. -
02-15-2021, 03:00 PMVahlnirNot really. Heck, believe it or not I'm not even offended. That takes a lot to do. I don't know who you are either, and it can stay that way. Mostly just wanted to point out that not all of us are like that, and that is what your post was implying. You came in hot and never specified, so...wouldn't be the first time someone tried to paint a large swath of the player base that way. I'm also no mind reader, though that would be nice at times. I'm a no nonsense kind of guy, in that I take absolutely none of it from anyone. By the time I wake up tomorrow morning I will forget this conversation ever happened. As to the rest of your post...we will have to agree to disagree on certain things, and that's okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflake
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02-15-2021, 03:03 PMWaterShieldHistory shows that the best way to reach them is to unsub in large numbers (1.0). Not saying that we're likely to see that over this though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz