So did the original developers. Remind me how that went?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!
Printable View
-
08-10-2016, 10:07 AMSaccharin
-
08-10-2016, 10:08 AMJennika
Please do something. I feel a lot of midcore people want something more than a gear treadmill full of 1-shot mechanics.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...71&oe=584F5FDD
Taken today at 6:00pm PDT :( -
08-10-2016, 10:17 AMZarcoft
Wow people on the forums complain about everything, first you are complaining about the game being too much like WOW, ok so you want a game that will stand on it's own, be unique and that is something I can totally get down with. But that the same time you saying I want it to be a copy of FFXI. So let me get this straight, you want the game to stop copying one game, make improvements and stand on it's own, which is fine. But then you want it to copy another, so you aren't making any sense and you are also contradicting yourself. I hope you can see that. You are saying stop copying WOW, make blah blah improvements and copy FFXI. But yet you want the game to stand on it's own and be unique then copy a different game? hmmmm Doesn't make any sense to me. But whatever ya are going to flame me or troll me. Don't really care, because if you can't see that you are contradicting yourself, not giving constructive criticism, and just crying and whining about how FFXI does this or that and I want it now post, then maybe you should stop playing games, and go to school for programming and make your own game. I got another idea instead of all these post about how terrible the game is, and I'm going to quit unless you do this type of posts. Maybe constructive post about what is wrong, and what YOU think would be a great way to fix it. But you didn't, you make a post about how you want it to stop copying one game and you want it to copy another. That's great constructive criticism.
-
08-10-2016, 10:21 AMMasekase_Hurricane
I think people forget that when WoW was released a lot of players left XI in favour of the more casual format( I wasn't one I wouldn't play that rubbish cartoon :P). Only thing I miss from 11 is more open world content, as for FATES I am sick of everything being stapled to them as they are boring and tedious.
-
08-10-2016, 11:12 AMADVSS
wonder when a final fantasy mmorpg will take place in like a ff7 sort of setting and not the middle ages... though i guess the job system works really well with the midieval setting, im not entirely sure if the complaints are about the job system, restrictive rigid role assignment, or about the raids.. or open world content in general. i dont really think camping a monster for a one drop vs the entire server is fun, i lag out on odin, to the point hed disappear and even some s ranks when hunts are the thing I would not have fun if essentially 1 rare and needed drop came from a monster the entire server would camp, at the same time
...id like a looser roles system or something, or different gameplay. wasnt really fond of the additions that were given in this expansion, id probably say pld was cool and war was just awesome addition, for the other jobs- meh and back to that pld thing, if cross class cure would have been worked in to be good to begin with we never wouldve needed clemency....at all its things like this i wish theyd improve upon, not really worried about changing it to be another ff11 or wow -
08-10-2016, 11:40 AMNicolepwned
In XIV, I play for pretty much only end-game (so raids and even extreme trials).
Watching raids in XI looks like an absolute snore fest. So nah, I'll take XIV over XI atm. -
08-10-2016, 11:49 AMJennikaI am not surprised. I played FFXI on PS2 via America Online dial-up internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolepwned
-
08-10-2016, 12:23 PMSkivvyEveryone's taste will vary on this. Non-stop button mashing and dancing is not my idea of a fun fight. While XI's combat is slower, the fights were still incredibly fun and challenging. Definitely required more team work to pull off, which is a plus IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolepwned
-
08-10-2016, 01:13 PMVelhartYou must not do higher level content if you believe the game is just button mashing. Understanding your rotation not in general, but every fight you take on and adjust to, is extremely important and makes or breaks those DPS/tank/heal checks. Also, required more team work? Game has just as much team work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
Both games are strategic and challenging in their own right. You can prefer one or the other, but don't pretend that one is just a slam your head on the keyboard easy. If you want to make that assumption, then I can easily say that in FFXI just get 100TP and Tachi: Gekko, its that easy. I don't believe that, but you can easily generalize that game also. -
08-10-2016, 01:32 PMSkivvyButton mashing to me = non-stop pressing of buttons, regardless if there is a rotation or not. In XIV you are expected to keep up your rotation and fill spare moments with off-GCD abiliites while dancing around to non-stop AoEs. This is not fun to me, but as I said, everyone's taste varies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
-
08-10-2016, 01:46 PMMasekase_HurricaneWasn't just the fights actually getting to them was a challenge in itself. No map unless you found it, True sight/hearing mobs, random Notorious monster spawning whilst trying to level, going through an area that was way above your level to get to a destination and no running unless you are a thief. You want your basic artefact gear go look for it/fight for it, you want next set of levels go unlock them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
lol just to unlock chocobo u had to take the death walk and hope u lived getting to the main city, travelling 3 zones with many of the mobs being able to 1 shot you. Then you had zones that was a complete maze to navigate with or without the map (if you could even locate the map).
I also miss the friends on 11 I invited people to my linkshell because I had a laugh with them. In 14 you invite people to your company cause u want to get stuff done and hopefully become friends.
The community in a way was better very few gave up regardless if it was their first attempt or 10th killing a boss. Lol sometimes whole party had weakness and would just throw bodies at the mob, while some healed up just to stop someone else taking it.
These are the stuff I miss non instanced filler. FFXIV is just DF and FATE with a load of beautiful zones under used. Everything SE is making atm is just to drag it out to the next patch it's not even interesting it's just the same thing over and over again.
Not sure who makes the seasonal events either but if their only idea is "oh lets put it in a FATE" needs fired. As for classes I am not sure why you give us such a choice, then only be able to max out a couple between patches. Fine adding more classes but damn increase the lore from 450 a week and weekly limits at the very least to 2 drops.
As for the weekly limits on red scrips,lore,savage,Weeping City and Alex they are way too low for the amount of classes. We wouldn't need all these weekly limits if people could max many classes (I don't expect all but at least 25% of them would be nice), also the DF would benefit from more people leveling up/grinding tomes, instead of just doing lore etc on Tuesday and then not seen again for another week.
I still like 14 but I can see why many friends have left and got tired of the game. -
08-10-2016, 01:47 PMJynxTanaka has been quoted saying he was pressured to make FFXIV as different from XI as possible and that's why the game wound up lackluster. So they really didn't try to make XI-2...Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccharin
-
08-10-2016, 02:35 PMNicolepwnedI've always thought that having class-specific tome lockouts (albeit probably lowered, so like 200 Tomes per class each lockout) would make more sense. One of XIV's selling factors is the versatile class swapping system junk. Having recently gotten almost all my battle classes to 60, I'm feeling this hardcore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane
-
08-10-2016, 02:44 PMSandparkI agree on what button mashing means in that sense. They couldn't slow down the constant presses here though because of the GCD. People already complain it's slower than WoW or other GCD games. Other than server issues, high cost MP/TP skills could slow down enough with GCD removal but it won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
-
08-10-2016, 03:02 PMSkivvyThat right there would give players more freedom when playing, and I can only hope they bring this into the game. The lockouts killed off my desire to play multiple jobs ages ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolepwned
-
08-10-2016, 03:05 PMShurrikhanAt a 2.5 GCD, you'd have to weaving an average of two oGCDs for every three GCDs to make the apm (actions per minute) comparative to WoW's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
Channeled, charged, and GCD-skill cooldowns (without any ever-useful filler remaining) all slow down the action rate, but XIV has none of these (even EA, the only CDed weaponskill, is optimally used as a pure oGCD). That's every bit as at "fault" for the high (by which I really mean average, compared to most MMOs other than XI) button-press rate.Fun little sidenote: WoW has no invasive animations for most oGCDs, even attaching "can be cast while casting" to the tooltips of most, so it doesn't generally have to "weave" a damn thing", and its GCD animations are usually limited to a single swing or thrust, as thus restricted, according to Blizzard, by its short GCD (1.5s - Haste for most classes, or 1.0s - Haste for DKs).
All the GCD really does is give a new mechanic to watch out for ("weave"), one I think most double-weave classes tend to enjoy... as long as their ping doesn't prevent them from making use of it.
You could technically go the other way and make macros wholly supported, at least for appropriately queuing weaponskills while manually supplying your GCDs in between. You could even toss "Gambits" in.
...Theoretically. I'm not so sure the community would be appreciative of the latter gesture especially.
Personally I wouldn't give a damn if someone wanted to just press Full Thrust (m) once to have all three combo skills go off in order, and just spend their time between picking their target for each, moving, and using their oGCDs. I wouldn't even mind if the game would allow you to move short distances automatically, on toggle or macro option, to stay in range of your melee target rather than losing a bit of uptime for not creeping forward as silly tanks spin or nudge mob packs about. Even if they macroed the whole DRG rotation down with blank slots for WT or F&C, at least they still have to pick which of the two came up, their oGCD order, and when to Geirskogul. They wouldn't exactly be losing out on tactical value. Though they might mistime something a manual player would not have if they're not at least as careful. -
08-10-2016, 03:31 PMSandpark
@Shurrikhan
I don't think most here would like combat to slow down to XI levels, I wouldn't mind it either way. I don't want to go back to auto attack, but I also don't like the fast action combat associated with exuberant amounts of button presses especially as more and more skills get added. I would like see control and weight or momentum have a place here which my idea you read previously on gives me away.
I know Dark Souls combat would not work in an mmo but it has the pacing I like most. Cerebral by the moment versus cerebral when learning then movesets then full blinding action speed God Of War mode. With a note on weight not hampering movement or counters by much, I want to see less global robotic mechanics from enemy AI and have more, I don't even know the right word? AI changing on circumstances?
My combo does punishing damage a few times, the monster gets wind of my rotation, and then bam! It catches me off guard and does something differently. -
08-10-2016, 03:44 PMKhalitharAfter they added the whole specialist system as a means of reducing the power of omni-crafters and the way the drop systems are, it is my belief that the devs genuinely want us to only ever focus on 1-2 classes at most with having a bunch of them leveled just letting you switch to a new class when the ilevel goes up if you want (by reducing the cap on the old tomestones to let you gear it up quickly by grinding dungeons).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
-
08-10-2016, 04:04 PMShurrikhanIntelligence. You'd want their scripting to better feign intelligence. Or "conditional scripting". : PQuote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
The thing is though, they literally only have AAs and one to two iCD or sCD (or, say, XI/1.0 TP-based) skills. There wouldn't really be anything for intelligence to act on anyways, except to do something as annoying as instantly moving behind its attacker at all times as not to be targetable, LoSing every ranged attack, or run away and not look back while pulling other mobs into you. You know... the only things we'd be capable with silence, pacified, and suffering from amnesia. First thing's first – they're going to need more stuff to do.
The pacing you mentioned, however, is something belonging to ARPGs and H&S MMOs, and one that can suffer heavily from latency. You could swing, but then you'd be in action lock and unable to dodge (run the 1.x Ifrit horror pictures). Otherwise you memorize the timings and rotations (no different from the dodge dodge revolution of today, except that there are typically no obvious indicators) and just stay idle or only use light or auto attacks until the dodge, and resume from there for the allowed duration. That's what DS comes down to, and I can't honestly see why it'd be considered more cerebral than what we have now. It's mostly just a matter of bringing back the inability to move for a variable length of time while executing a skill, to ensure that you have breaks by which you can either remember to stop attacking, or you're maimed, and perhaps instituting variable GCDs based on weapon speed, or replacing GCDs with a pure animation lock or "time-locked" system as I've mentioned before in your thread. At present, we still have this sort of desync or forced downtime for casters during frequent movement, whereas the H&S paradigm usually focuses more on the melee. The closest other representation of that we have is saving burst for a more vulnerable phase. I think AI and mob skillset improvements should pave the way for the kind of variance you're looking for, rather than trying to approach from a more time-locked / H&S / ARPG model. -
08-10-2016, 04:20 PMSandpark
@Shurrikhan
Here is a talk from another forum and some of the ideas they were tossing around about AI were pretty cool to me.
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...98&h=50&p=1#30
And more...Quote:
When I was more active in MU* coding, how I'd handle mob behavior was one of this things I mulled on from time if I made my own game. As is, current MMOs tend to be either heavily scripted or little more than "spam this to keep a hidden number high so a mob focuses on you" sort of manipulation.
On the statistical end, I had affix behaviors like:
Confrontational = Focus on the character with the highest Attack/Strength.
Standoffish = Focus on the character with the highest HP/Vitality.
Deft = Focus on the character with the highest Dexterity.
Nimble = Focus on the character with the highest Agility.
Discerning = Focus on the character with the highest Magic Attack/Intelligence.
Zealous = Focus on the character with the highest Mind.
Flamboyant = Focus on the character with the highest Charisma.
These traits would be hidden to the player and would vary as things respawn, effectively making each fight potentially different. However, I upped the random factor further in that mobs could have further enhancements to the above mentioned categories. Depending on their move sets, you might not even notice, but a traditionally STR-heavy mob getting an even further STR bonus might facilitate a slightly different strategy. Especially since fights typically weren't going to be Many Allies vs. 1 Monster, but something more variable where I further distinguished mobs into size categories with party formations that followed.
Since this is an MMO and not text-based, however, we could technically go further in their (re)actions. Wear red when you fight a bull-type mob? You might be the target. Cast Ice magic against a mob that really hates the cold? It might wanna pick on you. Could even have ones that prefer hit and run tactics or might not even want to fight at all, instead turtling up and constantly curing themselves. Yoinking a page from FF4, anyone wearing metallic gear could receive slight debuffs simply being around certain mob types due to a magnetic aura. Some traits can be consistent, sure, as that's part of what makes a race/species/whatever, but I really do believe that if we want to make players distinguishable, our foes need to be, too. And not just because some want PvP that way.
Plus it kinda fits more snugly into my ideal crafting systems where items are more customized to our play style than every Iron Sword being exactly the same.
Quote:
Well, that's when I'd confess that fights would not only be turn-based, but also "instanced" like you'd see in earlier FFs. I mentioned mob formations, but you'd also have your party. Perhaps imagine a mix of Suikoden II and FF12, where you could have a 6-man group, either full of players or the gambit-like AIs filling in as needed. Obviously, if I wanted to be an ***, I could go more TRPG and make the fights 2D grids, but I figure each version has strengths and weaknesses.
I mention Suikoden in particular, though, because it also did things with weapons like having have short, medium, and long range types. Where you were positioned would affect what you could attack on the enemy end relative to your weapon choice. However, since I planned on skills to customizable, a sword move that starts off hitting one foe could be trained to eventually hit a row, column, or even the whole enemy unit at varying costs of damage and something like AP. I'd also idealized spells being broken down into elements, where an affinity you chose at the start would reflect how easily you could raise others on the grid. In time, that aforementioned sword ability could've gotten fire magic magic imbued into it. Or something like Ice was actually a combination of Water and Wind, but independently a mob may not be weak to either of those.
There was a lot of ruminating on combos, weapon types, their strengths and weakness that went on back then, to the point I successfully intimidated myself because I didn't know anyone else who could either run with such or even be interested. MU*s could certainly be their own drama pools.
-
08-10-2016, 04:24 PMKhalitharI wouldn't mind enemies being a little bit more active. An example would be the two legged add in Final Steps of Faith and the last boss in Stone Vigil (HM) or the cat in the first "boss" of Hullbreaker (HM), enemies that ignore threat tables and go on a rampage attacking your party at random or (in the case of the cat) fixate on a party member. I think that makes the enemies more interesting, it also shows whose paying attention when the big add does it's wind ups for it's aoe/cleave attack that has no telegraph. It forces you to pay attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
-
08-10-2016, 05:14 PMMorningstar1337The problem is more for both progression and (non-)raiding purposes. Getting gear from both the raid and the tomestones would be much easier and faster than saving one or the other for multiple jobs (at least until you got it on farm, but even then there might still be lockouts until the next raid tier is introduced and the cycle begins anew), plus the absolute BiS builds mix and match from both sets, while the ability to effectively buy one time piece per week makes it rather impossible to get all the jobs or even 4 jobs geared unless you have the raids on farm, which would allow you 5 pieces a week given some luck (best case scenario bar the drops being uncapped, and even then 7 other people have to get gear too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolepwned
Put simply there is a clear difference between Maining and Playing, Gear. And some people might be put off by that Since it might seem rather pointless, and SE might not help because a cap increase would also allow players to gear their main faster, rather than focusing on alts. -
08-10-2016, 06:08 PMShurrikhanI've seen a few discussions of that sort on these official forums as well. Most have long since been buried though. Far and few between at any concrete level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
To me, the basics for enmity manipulation start with something like... (spit-balling here, don't judge me too hard, yah?)
- Nature – the basic initial formulas for how Enmity is assigned by the mob type (e.g. per point of enmity healing, mitigation, damage dealt, or even damage taken; this also includes scalars for "focus" and 'thwarting', and the use of "drive"). These also determine how much of a personal resource the mob is willing to spend on what, and under what conditions. Nature may have several variations or augmentations in the form of Motive (below).
- Motive / Instinct / Theme – various different scripts triggered according to the sums and balance of enmity according to nature, that may then adjust that nature in turn over the course of the motive or its consequent "tactic" (below). It is the basic, imagistic want at the time, a theme of action that may bind a mob's decisions. These break down to relatively simple, spontaneous, or primal notions, but can be mechanically complex and vary in ambiguity of appropriate tactics, such as Defiance, Survival, Disabling, Dismantling, Intimidation, Slaughter, etc.
- Tactic – a plan devised according to mob nature to suit present motive, or any point within said plan that can be considered to progress or regress. All decisions (tactics) come from a point of initial motive, and motives may change mid-tactic. Opposing actions that directly negate attempts to achieve that plan or a point of its execution can be considered "thwarting" and works under a separate enmity scalar type.
- Drive – a measure based on how a given tactic is progressing or regressing, and may build differently from either direction of success or failure, based on mob nature (including adjustments by motive). It determines how affixed the mob will become to a given tactic. Its a combination of confidence and stubbornness, so speak.
- Focus – A sort of Enmity in itself, it further scales incoming Enmity, usually enhancing the changes to nature according to motive script. The bonus enmity generated may or may not carry over, at any percent, between motive scripts. It is the idea that the enemy has his "eye" on you. Confusingly, Focus (or being "in focus") also describes whether or not you have gained enough enmity on the mob to be calculated in his enmity decisions, OR calculated as your own enmity source.
- Intelligence – A floating value stat that determines how precisely or accurately a mob can sort sources of enmity based on Focus. For instance, if a healer was not already at enmity level enough to be tracked, the healing he does to a tank might be mistaken for the tank's own output and increase enmity against the tank instead, based on Intelligence. Intelligence tends to be tied to Drive and Motive script atop the base given by Nature.
That's all I can presently imagine as being needed to fake variable levels of reactive intelligence; for the whole package I'd need a determiner also for measuring opportunity to tie into Focus, Intelligence, and Tactics, adjusted by Nature, and similarly triggering Motive scripts. I can't even imagine that off the top of my head.
For as much as I have written, though, I imagine the real trick will probably be in designing more "human-like" ways of determining enmity sources, as for when mob Intelligence (above) is low. The largest portion of work, however, will likely reside in forming the motive sets (or instincts)... which more Intelligent, low Drive-scalar enemies aren't going to noticeably follow anyways. To get the full flavor out of the enemy, you might also want to attach actual power scalars, not just enmity or scalars, to certain Instincts. Resource usage modifiers may be enough though, and keeping it to just that would be more realistic. - Nature – the basic initial formulas for how Enmity is assigned by the mob type (e.g. per point of enmity healing, mitigation, damage dealt, or even damage taken; this also includes scalars for "focus" and 'thwarting', and the use of "drive"). These also determine how much of a personal resource the mob is willing to spend on what, and under what conditions. Nature may have several variations or augmentations in the form of Motive (below).
-
08-10-2016, 08:36 PMCaitlyn
Make FFXIV hard again! FFXIV 2.X FTW! (but i still keep my Au Ra Machinist, just to make sure)...
-
08-10-2016, 08:42 PMTheGrimace
Make ketchup more like mayonnaise! Those people who like ketchup? Forget them, mayonnaise is king now!
"But I didn't like mayonnaise. It's gross. That's why I stopped eating it years back."
You're out of luck, ketchup lover! Mayonnaise everywhere! This is the world now! -
08-10-2016, 10:05 PMIstaruNot if the cap was by role. You can get the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Tomestone of Lore (Tank): 0/450
Tomestone of Lore (Healer): 450/450
Tomestone of Lore (Melee): 75/450
Tomestone of Lore (Ranged): 225/450
You get awarded Tomestones based on the role you used when gaining them. Could be done at the job level too. Purchasing items would require the corresponding Tomestones. Tank ones get you the fending set but not the healing set etc. -
08-10-2016, 10:16 PMSkivvyDo you know what is also awesome? Thousand island! Gotta mix that mayo and ketchup along with some other special flavors to get that delicious sauce.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimace
-
08-10-2016, 10:17 PMLambadeltaWhat about crafting mats that are bought with tomestones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Istaru
How would you balance it so people who can play more don't get an advantage in that department. -
08-10-2016, 10:23 PMKhalithar1. They can do what they're doing now by having mats on the old tomestone that don't have a weekly limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambadelta
2. I don't see an issue with someone playing more having an advantage over someone that doesn't. -
08-10-2016, 10:25 PMZojhaAs far as I'm aware, these mats are bought with "uncapped" tomestones - esoteric right now. So nothing would really change, would it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambadelta
-
08-10-2016, 10:27 PMSkivvyQuote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
#2 is the weirdest complaint to me. I will admit, I don't see this argument that often, but it does pop up from time to time and always leaves me baffled. But it's exactly as you said, why shouldn't someone who plays more be farther ahead and/or have a slight advantage? They've put in the time, they deserve their rewards. This game is designed that no one can really get that far ahead, so I think this would be non-issue. -
08-10-2016, 10:32 PMIstaruCorrect, they are 20 ESO for No Quality and 50 ESO for High Quality. Lore is currently gear only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
I'm going to join in on not understanding why this feeling even exists. Should someone who puts 30 hours into playing be able to have more rewards than someone who only plays 8 hours per week? You're damn right they should!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambadelta
They absolutely should have more stuff. I do believe, part of the reasoning for the weekly caps is so that casual and new players don't feel that it will take too much effort to "catch up" and be on par with everyone else. Participation awards everyone!! Just show up once in a while and you get the same rewards as the person who busted their butt to make it happen. Too much of that attitude exists.
You want to know a reason why people find FSoF and such so difficult? Up until that point, everything in this game is given out for just showing up. Everything is at almost 0 difficulty so that people who demand to be on par with people who know what they're doing are give things for no effort. None. -
08-11-2016, 12:09 AMThayosBecause each of these raids starts over with a completely new song and dance routine, and each one must be memorized on its own from start to finish. There is very little actual "skill" involved in most of this game's hardest content; it's more about memorizing a script and, sometimes, recognizing when it's your turn to do a certain dance move. There is extremely little reading and reacting that goes on in this game. If that wasn't the case, then you'd see less of a gap between people who played 30 hours per week and have statics vs. folks who can only play 10 hours/week and not at consistent times.Quote:
You want to know a reason why people find FSoF and such so difficult?
-
08-11-2016, 12:27 AMPlatinumstorm
Please make FFXIV more like FFXIV. More frequent updates, less treadmill, less grind, more varied activities.
If you want to kill the game, make it more like FFXI.
MMOS need to change. -
08-11-2016, 12:34 AMSkivvyAre you saying you hope that XIV implements more frequent updates, less treadmill, less grind and varied activity, or do you think they already do a good job on the aforementioned items?Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinumstorm
-
08-11-2016, 12:35 AMVelhartSaying most of the hardest content requires little skill is not accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayos
If we are talking about raids and to a lesser extent, extreme primals. You need to have a full understanding of your job, it's rotation, and how to adjust that rotation to the boss fight's mechanics. This is also while communicating with your team. It is very clear to see who is skilled on their job or not in those fights. -
08-11-2016, 12:39 AMThayosThe rotation is also mostly a matter of memorization, and how it fits in with each boss script is also mostly memorization. And there's little need to communicate with your team once everyone memorizes the fight. The biggest reason to communicate at all is to help each other learn the script more efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
The ability to memorize something more quickly is definitely a skill, but let's not pretend (not that you, specifically, are) that people who don't have the time to memorize these raids are a bunch of unskilled newbs. The amount of consistent playtime a person has is a far bigger factor than skill, especially because people who can play at certain set hours are much more likely to be able to find statics. And statics can memorize fights much more efficiently than pickup groups.
I do agree the game could do a better job of giving people reasons to learn their optimal rotations early on. But even with echo and being overgeared, people are more likely to die in raids because of mechanics. -
08-11-2016, 12:52 AMPlatinumstormI think FFXIV does a decent job on varied activities. The rest has been lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
I'm doing the Yochi Watch or whatever event right now. I can't believe they made this. It's uninspired, an awful grind, and it isn't fun. Are you inspired by the event's story? The combat? Why develop things like that if the answer to all of those questions is no?
There are so many other great games to play right now, I just don't understand the decision behind making bad content. -
08-11-2016, 01:04 AMIstaruFor some content, I will agree with you. EX primals to a degree and definitely for Savage. No disagreement on those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayos
FSoF? WCoM? Yes, I disagree
I did it day one with my casual FC friends. Before anyone asks, no, I don't want a parade.
The people I did it with are not raiders but are good players that pay attention and understand their jobs, and play them well. They do not spend their lives in this game, they spend a more moderate amount of time doing stuff. We did it cold, no video, no guide, just queue up and do it. Yes, we wiped once or twice. Why were we able to do it where other groups fail?
I still state, just as before, part of the problem are the people who demand that this game, which isn't FarmVille btw, give the poor players the same rewards and everything as the good players. The players who invest nothing feel they should reap the same rewards as the people who play more.
There really isn't any reason to grow as a player, and yes, part of that is the time you spend to learn your job. At this point, 1 year past expansion launch, even at 8 hours per week, if you play one or two jobs, you have spent over 200 hours on it. That should be more than enough time to learn enough to pass the FSoF DPS check that kills many groups.
I would like to see how reading and reacting lowers the skill gap from people who have spent a significant time mastering their job versus those who have not for the 2 content types listed. EX primals and savage are a different story. -
08-11-2016, 01:10 AMVelhartThat is a shallow way of looking at it. Video games in general are all about memorization if you want to go by that logic. If what you say actually held water, then why is there not more AS8 wins? There is a difference between memorizing something and executing it. I may remember a mechanic, but I need the ability to execute it. I can watch a video, completely memorize each part. It does not mean when I go in I am going to execute it like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayos
I can memorize patterns in Dark Souls, but I am not going to win by that alone. That game is all about execution and trial/error.