I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dorfentyme

Got my MCH to 52 today, was looking forward to Gauss Barrel. Once I got it, it felt slow, clunky, looked awful, etc. I retired my MCH immediately and decided I probably won't ever touch the Bard either. It's just...not very fun or exciting, IMO.

inb4 "Good, we don't want you running around the battlefield anyways and ruining our day!" Well, news flash, I stood still as a MCH the entire time I DPSed except for when it was necessary to move.

---

So you're saying you ragequit before seeing a class's completed kit? Good to know, NEXT!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyrist

So you're saying you ragequit before seeing a class's completed kit? Good to know, NEXT!

---

Shouldn't have to complete it to 60 to see the benefit. You should feel empowered by it from day one, which is not the case.

Everyone wants to keep bringing up BLM for comparison, don't mean to add more fuel to the fire--but it is my main and BRD is one of my alts. By comparison, you benefit from Enochian immediately upon unlocking it. It boosts your output without hindering the job/class skills--I immediately felt a decrease in the time it took to solo mobs once I started using it. It is purely an enhancement to your kit as soon as you unlock it. This is not the case with BRD (and apparently MCH as well?).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raist

Shouldn't have to complete it to 60 to see the benefit. You should feel empowered by it from day one, which is not the case.

Everyone wants to keep bringing up BLM for comparison, don't mean to add more fuel to the fire--but it is my main and BRD is one of my alts. By comparison, you benefit from Enochian immediately upon unlocking it. It boosts your output without hindering the job/class skills--I immediately felt a decrease in the time it took to solo mobs once I started using it. It is purely an enhancement to your kit as soon as you unlock it. This is not the case with BRD (and apparently MCH as well?).

---

You felt nothing with a 30% increase in -all your abilities-, but felt something with a 5% increase in magic damage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

You felt nothing with a 30% increase in -all your abilities-, but felt something with a 5% increase in magic damage?

---

yeah... about got my face eaten off by mobs I could solo no problem otherwise.

Enochian is an additional damage boost that could be worked into your original rotation (as in you could now rotate RS and Eno with no penalty to game play). WM changed the mechanics on us. The loss of auto attack and having to stay rooted to fire off WS you normally didn't have to DOES make a difference when you are the one with hate (as in soloing, as I mentioned earlier).

Edit:
By no means scientific and not a parse over time, but just went out to fart around on a dummy in Falcon's. SS normal is 370-380-ish, crits 580-ish. With WM up, it's 470-480-ish with crits for 780-ish. Yeah.. that sounds great right? Well... you have to figure in also that I'm loosing my 220-230 auto attacks that can also crit up to 360-ish. The AA's fire between the CD on SS. So without WM, I can spam SS and get SS, AA, SS, AA, SS, AA.... That extra damage stacks up nicely...to the point on that it nearly balances out over time.

Now, with HS, we're talking 420-ish normal, 620-ish Crit normally, with WM up it is around 510 with 760-ish crits---but again, loosing the 220-ish/360'ish AA in between each one. Look at that really closely now. Say the crit rate was consistent and was a good rate of proc: 420 HS, 220 AA, 420 HS, 220 AA, 620 HS---vs 510 HS, 510 HS, 760 HS. Without WM up, that is 1900 damage in the same time frame for 1780 with it up. Over the course of spamming a very basic WS--and that is base damage by the way--SS was not up for crit bonuses at the time. Now run the numbers against the SS spam I gave earlier: 370 SS, 220 AA, 370 SS, 220 AA, 370 SS (1550) vs 470 SS, 470 SS, 780 SS (1720).

Now combine them... 1550 +1900=3450 no WM, 1780 + 1720=3500 with WM up. All it takes is one more AA (not even a crit even) during the span of 6 WS to give you MORE DPS with WM down. And with the CD timers, you likely WILL in fact get that 5th AA in during those 6 WS (remember---those comparisons only included 4 AA's).

Where is that great 30% increase in damage? Is it really worth putting myself at greater risk to stance dance my butt off for minimal improvement over time---a boost I can get from food FFS.

Granted, as you get higher levels and unlock the special weapon skills and get better gears and such it may scale better---but you shouldn't HAVE to wait until you earn another 6million+ in exp for WM to be any manner of a significant benefit like it was with other job's new abilities.

To draw a better contrast with Eno on BLM... with Eno up, a F3 opener and 2 F1's obliterated a dummy. With Eno off.. the same exact spell sequence left it with 27% health the first time. This was fairly consistent--with Eno off, the BEST I got one down was to 13%--and MP was to the point of needing to refresh mind you. I consistently obliterated the dummies with just the same three casting while Eno was up... every... bleeding... time.

That is what is at issue here... the skill is still too grossly unbalanced. It's better then when first added... but it still is not there yet until you get to the top of your class so to speak.

I think Machinist is absolutely fantastic, and firing magic bullets is right up my alley.

But I don't see how giving Bard the same treatment makes that much sense. Now I haven't played Bard past 50 so I can't speak from experience there, but it would make more sense to me if Bards had something other than a carboncopy of Machinist's Gauss Barrel. I mean, magic bullets are awesome. But magic arrows? I mean... wait, hey, that actually sounds kind of cool.

Then honestly, you have two ranged class, why give them the same skill and role?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

You felt nothing with a 30% increase in -all your abilities-, but felt something with a 5% increase in magic damage?

---

5-10% Increase* 20-25% of that was what our autos already offered, that's why they boosted it with 3.01. When it was just 20% you felt almost no benefits until you started unlocking everything else that had to work in tandem. And even still, without Empyreal Arrow you're working with a stunted rotation.

Lmao I still laugh at people who are telling others what they should feel is fun and not to others. Who the heck do some of you think you are? It does not matter what dps it does if players don't like the core change of the class to do that dps.

/thread and that is that. You can't argue with it. Fun is subjective and you don't have any say on what is fun to a person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Lmao I still laugh at people who are telling others what they should feel is fun and not to others. Who the heck do some of you think you are? It does not matter what dps it does if players don't like the core change of the class to do that dps.

/thread and that is that. You can't argue with it. Fun is subjective and you don't have any say on what is fun to a person.

---

This is what I posted in another thread about why I think people are upset about the BRD playstyle chg. I think the mistake is people are saying "mobility" but its really "utility" which mobility and fluidity plays a huge role in. I apologize in advance, its rather lengthy but I think many will understand what I mean:

I think that the problem is that people who normally don't play the Job are trying to tell people that do play not only that the Job is ok, but also how to play it. I think people complaining about BRDs complaining need to chill out and listen more. I have BRD lvl 50, NIN lvl 50, and MNK lvl50. I haven't done any Heavensward stuff yet, so I can't comment on how the BRD job plays now. But I rolled/played the job not only because of the mobility(Not running around like crazy, but knowing that I could move when needed and still keep my dps was important to me), but because of its utility. Not support, Utility.

For example: I felt as a BRD, my job was to help with adapting to new situations. If an add popped, I felt like it was my job to tag that ass...I mean ADD..lol..even before melee dps can move. I felt if I can help whittle away at enemies and finish them off, thats less time the melee dps has to spend away from boss. Also, not only did I have range, but mobility. I could attack pretty much almost anywhere on battlefield. Add popped to my left, turn fire off shots, another popped on my right a few yalms further away, I might not even have to move to target that one. Oh, attack boss some more, reset DoTs..etc. Kiting when necessary, pulling when necessary, finishing off that mob. Having a BRD was like those movies when the good guy was like "Hey, cover me" and you would provide it.

As a BRD, I didn't ask for more dps to catch up to melee and be on even par, we asked to be SCALED properly to keep the same distance behind melee in dps, whether through scaling weapon dmg properly or scaling dps in general. IMO, BRD would be considered a sidekick, similar to Hawkeye in the Avengers. Yes, he was support, Yes he wasn't super duper like Hulk or Thor, or Ironman, but he had utility. Well placed arrow..finishing off enemy at right time. Even shifting focus from other players. Do you know how many times I have covered healers cause if they are being attacked, its easier for me to shift focus from boss to add attacking healer in an instant whithout moving, without forcing a melee thats already working boss to stop rotation, chase add thats attacking healers, losing dps as a result. Thats what BRD brought to the table.

And from what I'm hearing, SE hurt the Utility of BRD. BRD didn't get invited to raids just because of songs. That was a bonus, yes. But what I see as the problem is that alot of you who never played BRD, but maybe played with the in your group can't look past the songs. Im pretty sure if you were to go back and watch old videos of BRDs prior to this update, and actually look at what they did during fights, you would understand where BRD players are coming from and why they are concerned.

Also, I would like to point out, because I've been on these forums for a while and have read and commented on many BRD threads, that there have been a very small percentage, very very small, that asked for DPS to rival/be even/ match melee DPS. BRD's don't want to kick ass like a mnk or nin or drg, they just wanted their dps to scale to remain the same distance behind, not drop farther behind with every patch and update. With that drop in DPS, its makes it harder for BRDS utility to shine. Now, I challenge all non-BRDS to, if you have the time and ability, to actually watch what the BRDS bring to the table and how they operate. Its like music the way we flow in a fight. Take this analogy:

If party members were compared to musical Instruments in an orchestra: MeleeDPS=percussion Section (Drums), Tank =brass section, Heals=Woodwind/flutes, and Ranged DPS=Percussion(Xylophones, Timpani, Piano, Cymbals, etc) AND String section. The Music heads will understand this analogy but in case you don't understand:

Melee DPS dictates the tempo of the party, like the drums in a band. If you can't meet DPS checks, not going anywhere.

Tank is the Backbone. They are the ones that are flashy and stand out more, especially when you need a solo, like sax, trumpet, etc. When people look and listen to bands(talking classical music here) they tend to focus on drums and brass, cause they are showy and bring fun to the songs, like melee dps and tanks bring to the party

Heals make me think of woodwinds, especially flutes. They play that melody but when they need to make an appearance, they show up loud and fast, like spam healing. lol.

And now Ranged DPS. I think of their songs like the strings section. Playing in the background..soothing and accompanying the woodwinds melody(heals) with the occasional solo(think BLM). BRDS do that but a little extra. Remember those instruments in school that many people didn't know how to play, or play well, or passed them up because they didn't look interesting, like tambourine, triangle, xylophones, timpani, etc? Thats the class I put BRD/MCH into. Most of the time, a band that has those instruments has one person (sometimes two) that play all of those instruments when needed.They jump from cymbals to xylophone, from tambourine to maracas. From the triangle to the woodblocks. Each of those instruments might not seem important and even many of them seem they would be easy, but it doesn't mean they are unnecessary.

The person that plays all of those and fills those roles isn't skating by. Its a challenge. They read the same sheet music as a trumpeter and have to be on time and consistent just like everyone else. Its their utility that makes them unique and important. I am sorry about the long post. I've been trying to get people that don't play the job on a regular to understand why BRDS were upset. From what I'm hearing from most of the BRD's using WM, that its like telling the percussionist to now play with one stick or mallet while waiting for next Bar to load on your sheet music, without moving. Remember...its about Utility and adaptability with this class

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Lmao I still laugh at people who are telling others what they should feel is fun and not to others. Who the heck do some of you think you are? It does not matter what dps it does if players don't like the core change of the class to do that dps.

/thread and that is that. You can't argue with it. Fun is subjective and you don't have any say on what is fun to a person.

---

Ironically, your own argument can be used against you and your side.

Many whiners are attempting to speak for all BRD players, saying the new playstyle choices "aren't fun". I've been running Alex on my BRD and been doing just fine, having a blast. To me, WM is perfectly "fun".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Ironically, your own argument can be used against you and your side.

Many whiners are attempting to speak for all BRD players, saying the new playstyle choices "aren't fun". I've been running Alex on my BRD and been doing just fine, having a blast. To me, WM is perfectly "fun".

---

Your opinion is visibly a minority and largely meaningless in the face of the mass bard exodus that has occurred since 3.0.

In case you didn't know, Bard went from the single most popular job to the second-LEAST popular after Machinist. When a little over half of the players are straight-up jumping ship, you know you dun goofed.

(On the flipside, Summoner suddenly being so popular could be a bunch of people bandwagoning, or just a bunch of people drawn to it by Akh Morn, and who could blame them?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

Your opinion is visibly a minority and largely meaningless in the face of the mass bard exodus that has occurred since 3.0.

---

LOL

Ahh, the age old fallacy of "I see more people complaining about it than not".

Firstly, that's anecdotal. Personally, I've seen far more people fine with/ok/liking the new mechanics than I've seen complain about it. So which one of us is correct? The answer is neither.

Secondly, the forums in no way represent the majority, nor can you determine what the vast majority feel from the forums.

Thirdly, people who are upset about something are far, far more vocal than people content. People are far more likely to make a post and whine about something than make a post and praise something. That's why even with the most successful games in history, their forums are filled with nothing but vitriol... because the people who are actually content with the game are PLAYING the game, and the people not are whining about it.

tl;dr No. If anyone can be said to be a vocal minority, it's anyone whining about anything on the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

In case you didn't know, Bard went from the single most popular job to the second-LEAST popular after Machinist. When a little over half of the players are straight-up jumping ship, you know you dun goofed.

---

Pretty sure 3091 votes barely counts as 1% of the FFXIV community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Pretty sure 3091 votes barely counts as 1% of the FFXIV community.

---

Actually, it's 0.001% (and that's being nice, rounding up). ^_^

Plus there's huge self-select bias, rendering any statistical relevance NULL.

Too nice. You could be meaner.

I'm also sure some BLM's have changed to BRD (or SMN) because BRD doesn't have to deal with the frustrations of Enochian.

I've met some Bard that like new change, but for me the change game play is so hard to accept. I'm mostly using WM now because that is the best DPS for me but I'm not have the feel like the bard that I used to like.

Not speaking for anyone but myself here but, I still dislike the change for my own personal fun factor. While I dislike it, I think it would be less of a bother to me if WM could at the very least be set to a 6 second recast so we could actually stance dance when necessary, which depending on the fight can be quite often. (6secs would be the same as cleric stance's cooldown for WHM) Currently it is 15sec recast time. So we are unable to toggle it off for 15seconds. In that time I could be running around, dodging aoe's unable to perform any dmg because I got stuck in WM.

Yes, I realize the argument of learning the content will eventually help with that overtime. But that's part of why the fun factor has been lost for me. Until I learn the content, WM is cumbersome and annoying to use in some fights, and therefore I find myself playing Bard less and less and less, and playing DRG or another class more often, because I just don't have to worry about it.

Perhaps when I get more familiar with the ebb and flow of the fights, I will return to using Bard but the flip side is, by that time I may have been pushed so far away from Bard that I will no longer care to play it all. (which is already whats happening with me now)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

snip

---

The point is, that no one can tell the other person what is fun and what is not to them. In this thread, People are forcing their views down each other throat. For both the side that finds it fun and the side that does not.


The question of fun can only be answer by yourself. Trying to tell someone they are wrong because I am having fun. Get good, is pointless.

I don't care about the numbers, I don't care about what you enjoy of the class. What I care about is my own enjoyment and what the class turned into. The fact they did not give more choices in support options, and advance what many love about the job, to a hit or miss play style is my problem. We can only speak for ourselves, is all I am saying.

I am having fun with the new play style of Bard. I like the changes made to WM and the increase in damage as well. Mobility is not hindered that much in my opinion. I Burst, then stay in one spot and side step dodge when able and then just turn off WM if I need more mobility. I like the way Bard is turning out even though I was really pissed off at first. For me it took time and getting use to it to get better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

...

---

While you are correct on these points, you are still in the minority here. Polls speak for themselves. From most popular to second least popular among DPS classes cannot be construed as a coincidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Pretty sure 3091 votes barely counts as 1% of the FFXIV community.

---

Take some statistics classes. You only need a sample size in the hundreds to have a statistically significant sample.

Here's a more recent poll with nearly 9000 respondents if you must be skeptical. Poor AST is doing even worse now...

Does that poll include votes from the the French, German and Japanese community as well? My scepticism isn't appropriately fed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Does that poll include votes from the the French, German and Japanese community as well? My scepticism isn't appropriately fed.

---

Even if it doesnt contain votes from them, it's a good rough look at the scale of things for NA. I feel like everyone used to main bard just by the sheer amount of them, but this makes me curious what the estimates were before HW. Did the bard population drop to an all time low, or have we always been around this mark?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

While you are correct on these points, you are still in the minority here. Polls speak for themselves. From most popular to second least popular among DPS classes cannot be construed as a coincidence.


Take some statistics classes. You only need a sample size in the hundreds to have a statistically significant sample.

Here's a more recent poll with nearly 9000 respondents if you must be skeptical. Poor AST is doing even worse now...

---

LOL

Either you took 101 statistics and got a D or something, or you quickly tried to google statistics when I brought it up. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.


1) You have no data or evidence to make any claim about minority or majority, for one. The voices of the people who are happy with the job and don't come to the forums because they are happily playing the game are not represented. Besides that, the forums themselves are an extremely small minority of players. Maybe, MAYBE about 1-5% of players post here. 5% is being extremely generous.

2) Sample size is only one part of statistics. It's true that a larger sample size reduces the margin of error. But reducing the margin of error when your data is tainted by bias is worthless. You could have a sample size of 100,000 and it wouldn't mean jack due to bias (self-selection being the major culprit).

One of the biggest things that urks me is people who tell other people to "take some classes" and the go on to spout words that prove they themselves have no idea what they're talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vespar

Even if it doesnt contain votes from them, it's a good rough look at the scale of things for NA. I feel like everyone used to main bard just by the sheer amount of them, but this makes me curious what the estimates were before HW. Did the bard population drop to an all time low, or have we always been around this mark?

---

Absolutely not. The self-selection bias makes that data completely worthless.

Here's a more detailed poll showing a significant number of respondents were heavily disappointed by the state of BRD in 3.0. Amusingly, the number of people disappointed by it is twice as high as the number of respondents choosing to continue to main BRD.

Obviously, some skepticism is warranted due to the fact that people disappointed with bard want to make their grievances known, but then again, even more people are disappointed by AST and, gods, MCH is doing the worst by far on every single poll related to jobs. The trend is extremely obvious at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

1) You have no data or evidence to make any claim about minority or majority, for one. The voices of the people who are happy with the job and don't come to the forums because they are happily playing the game are not represented. Besides that, the forums themselves are an extremely small minority of players. Maybe, MAYBE about 1-5% of players post here. 5% is being extremely generous.

2) Sample size is only one part of statistics. It's true that a larger sample size reduces the margin of error. But reducing the margin of error when your data is tainted by bias is worthless. You could have a sample size of 100,000 and it wouldn't mean jack due to bias (self-selection being the major culprit).

---

First of all, you are presenting yourself with a level of arrogance that makes you completely insufferable to speak to. Maybe you'd do better by focusing more on information and less on trying to put down others.

Secondly, these polls are heavily sourced from reddit and random linking from poll participants (i.e. "word of mouth"), neither of which are heavily biased sources (especially when it comes to something as simple and inane as what class players are using). Many(/most) players use reddit simply to see content related to the game, not to complain like they often intend to do when visiting the official forums. The most-upvoted content is invariably entertaining or positive content rather than complaint threads.

Thirdly, even if there were an inherent self-selection bias, the number of bard players dropping like flies is still indicative of a worrying trend. Disappointed BRD players alone could not skew the poll so heavily towards non-BRD classes. There simply aren't enough BRD players around to do such a thing.

(The funny thing, however, is simply the fact that MCH is doing the worst by far despite all of this, and yet I have not seen nearly as much complaining about them on the forums, probably because no one plays them. All I can do is shrug my shoulders and hope SE does something to make us more desirable to play as. If not, well, I'll gladly take the hipster cred and play the undisputed least popular job in the entire bloody game.)

This play style should have been just for mch. Why have two classes almost a like? *besides rotation* I feel like it is just bad game design. Why did bards need to have this skill and lower dps? Is it because they are support dps? If that is so why do warriors who are tanks get to do good dps?

It is all so wishy washy that I don't even know what they developers are thinking, but I can tell you this. It feels lazy in game design, and the clunky feeling of the class with WM just supports that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyrist

So you're saying you ragequit before seeing a class's completed kit? Good to know, NEXT!

---

Well, the kit does't change that much after 52, you just get an extra CD and a couple of oGCD skills than can be only used with GB

I adjusted to learn the new playstyle for bard and do pretty good damage on ravana ex or alex so i can say that its possible to play at a high level , but im glad i switched my main to ninja because its just so much more fun than a pseudo black mage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Why did bards need to have this skill and lower dps? Is it because they are support dps?

---

I have to stop you right there. If this notion is true in that Minuet lowers your overall damage output, then the entire "playstyle change" fiasco players have been complaining about becomes unfounded. You literally wouldn't even need to activate Minuet at all if it ever lowered the damage output.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

If that is so why do warriors who are tanks get to do good dps?

---

Warriors, unlike the Paladin and Dark Knight, was built around high damage and high sustain. This stems from the 2.0 Warrior design in which they needed to deal high amounts of damage to sustain themselves with their HP restorative abilities. In return for their high damage and high sustain design, they had very few mitigation abilities at the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

snip

---

This is my fault for not going into details what I mean.

What I mean is that we pay a price with some songs, and not doing as much dps as other range classes in the name of support dps. This support dps gets used very rarely outside of a good chunk of the game. Yet, we have a warrior class who can do both roles and pretty darn well at them both. Mind you I have seen some amazing numbers at times from bards so things are better in that sense with the hotfix.

From my perspective, that is unfair game design. HOWEVER I can understand why people feel it is not, and respect that. It leaves a nasty taste in my mouth that a expansion comes out, and we get a play style change, instead of better songs for groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

It's not like I get penalized when I run around willy-nilly as a DRG, as long as I hit the positionals for all of two skills in my entire arsenal..

---

You must be one of those melees that don't understand the significance of your Auto-Attack damage. Target lock, always face the enemy, or you will be bad.

This game needs visible parsers for everyone on the team so this kind of thing can be put to rest.

Does anyone else have the issue with Emp arrow being interrupted 2-3 times before it actually goes off? meaning you have to spam the ability 2-3 times before you get a full cast... or is this a timing/latency issue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Snip

---

Ah, that makes more sense.

However, like I said earlier, Warriors were designed with high damage in mind. This is because their kit needs the damage to be able to sustain itself. The design isn't unfair to an extent. It's because the design of the Job was to deal good damage to keep itself up in the first place. That is the job of the Tank. Ranged DPS are at an advantage as they are not taking the brunt force of the enemy attacks and are almost completely mobile. On top of that, they are able to help sustain the party if anything goes awry. The trade-off is that they don't deal as high damage as other jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

snip

---

Yup, but the design of bard has change from devs own views they told us. We went from a mobile dps, to a support dps. The MP/TP songs are very strong, but we don't use it as much as I would like, If we are label "support" dps, I would have wanted better game play choices for that support.

Haste song?
Magic resist Song?
Hp regen song? (heck even our story line bard friend had this one.)
Song Of piercing? song of slashing?

The skill would come from how we use our MP, and what songs should be used depending on group makeup and what is going down. To me that spells more of a support dps, than what we have now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m3eansean

You must be one of those melees that don't understand the significance of your Auto-Attack damage. Target lock, always face the enemy, or you will be bad.

This game needs visible parsers for everyone on the team so this kind of thing can be put to rest.

---

lolwut?

You think I'm dumb enough to not face my target at all times during combat (with the obvious exception of when I'm dodging PBAoEs)? Yeah, nah.

I am of course talking about strafing the target while locked on. The level of freedom of movement is incredibly high for most melee jobs (especially NIN, for obvious reasons). I can easily strafe circles around bosses while dishing out maximum damage. I still don't see why BRD is sooo special in this regard that they deserve a large damage penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

lolwut?

You think I'm dumb enough to not face my target at all times during combat (with the obvious exception of when I'm dodging PBAoEs)? Yeah, nah.

I am of course talking about strafing the target while locked on. The level of freedom of movement is incredibly high for most melee jobs (especially NIN, for obvious reasons). I can easily strafe circles around bosses while dishing out maximum damage. I still don't see why BRD is sooo special in this regard that they deserve a large damage penalty.

---

Nin has 2 rotation positionals now after 3.0. Aoelian Edge and Armor Crush, they have been balanced as well. 2 More positionals if you count TA and SA. TA won't apply the vulnerability debuff if you miss the positional as well, much like the 2.0 days of Heavy Thrust. It could be argued ninja has the most severe penalty now for missing this positional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SonTensei

I adjusted to learn the new playstyle for bard and do pretty good damage on ravana ex or alex so i can say that its possible to play at a high level , but im glad i switched my main to ninja because its just so much more fun than a pseudo black mage

---

Play Black Mage before you compare BRD to BLM. For starters, you only have a 1.5 second charge. BLM's always have 2-3 seconds to cast their spells and are required to keep an eye on their Astral/Umbral buffs, their Enochian buff, their remaining MP, how long a spell will take to cast before Enochian or Astral/Umbral wears off.

If you want to compare BRD to something, compare it to a SMN... but even that is completely different (because again, cast times between the Casters and Ranged are completely different. Yes, a 1 second difference is small, but in certain fights, that 1 second makes a huge difference. Also the pet, but that's being obvious).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

snip.

---

If people want to call it blm style, it is more so that they are range caster dps. (without pets and all that) does not mean people are saying that it is a carbon copy, They are just giving a example of what a caster is and blm is the purest of casters when it comes to nuking without gimmicks *pets*. It is fine to compare it this way, because having a cast bar is dull and boring for me as well for a range dps.

It's still a massive difference, though. BLM's have little to no mobility after a cast is finished. BRD's on the other hand, do (and if a fight requires a lot of dodging, then turning WM's off is perfectly fine. BLM's do not have this advantage unless they have Firestarter and Thundercloud procs up).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

snip.

---

That is fine and I agree with you. It should be said caster elements to the class, instead of calling it a blm. so I just take it that is what they mean.

I enjoy the damage boost and all, but it isn't the playstyle I signed up for. Yet, I have to stance dance now to be optimal.

Maybe I should just switch to BLM since they do more damage with the same playstyle.