Can we please get rid of square and circle arenas for every trials and 8 men raids?

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Originally Posted by Thatusernameistaken

Algalon: Giant Circle
C'Thun: Giant Circle
Hakkar: Big Square
THE LICH KING: Giant Circle
Blackhand: Three Giant Circles
Yogg Saron: Giant Circle
The entire TOC raid: Giant Circle
Argus the Unmaker: Giant Circle
The Entire Throne of the Four Winds raid: Four Giant Circles
Nefarion (Cata): Giant Circle
Kel'Thuzad: Giant Circle
Mannoroth: Giant Circle
Kil'Jaeden: Giant Circle
Archimonde (WoD): Giant Circle
N'zoth: Giant Circle
Blood Queen Lana'thel: Giant Circle
Reliquary of Souls: Giant Circle
Illidan: Giant Circle
Queen Azshara: Giant Circle

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I'd also like to note that they seem to be wanting sprawling caverns. So they want to run around on foot for an hour going from boss to boss.

Coil was an experiment, and it didn't pass the test

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

The original raids in many pre-2010 MMOs, especially the EQ and Vanilla WoW era, were exactly that, large scale dungeons that a big group of people worked to progress through. Even though the boss' arenas were effectively big squares, circles, triangles, etc, the space fit into the dungeon more organically. Here in XIV we get arenas that get closed off and whack us over the head with how obvious it is that the space is an enclosed shape. While the two methods are effectively the same, the first has the perception of being a continuation of a larger dungeon system whereas here in XIV the arena mechanic pulls us out of the larger space and hits us with "BOSS FIGHT AREA!".

I enjoy raiding in XIV and will continue doing it, but I won't lie, it would be an upgrade if raids were structured more organically the way they have been in other MMOs.

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Not all of us have a static that wants to spend an hour going through a sprawling raid.

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Originally Posted by Hysorn

All these squares make a circle

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I was waiting for it and am not disappointed. XD

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Say what you want about WoW but atleast that game knows how to make immersive raid environments. I am not saying FFXIV's raids are bad compared to WoW. The raids in this game are awesome with fantastic bosses and complex mechanics. But the main problem in this game is there are no raid environments compared to WoW. Like my favorite raids in WoW are Throne of Thunder, Siege of Orgrimmar, Blackrock Foundry, Hellfire Citadel and Icecrown Citadel not just because of the bosses and the lore but also because of the raid environments.

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this is not WoW By Square-Enix.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Except using your particular analogy OP has asked for a drink with a crunchy texture, more substance and meat.

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That might be the case if he had asked for one specific thing else, rather than just that we not be limited solely to milk tea.

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All of the aspects they are asking for are already present in Alliance raids.

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Cool, then maybe we could actually make a form of content that is challenging by way of more than just having afkers, the badly inebriated, or new people who can't follow their parties, and not insist on barely reskinned "each party to their third of the room to do identical but irrespective/independent mechanics".

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Many of which ARE challenging content.

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Not by way of their mechanics, they sure aren't.

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OP is not even 60 and has not even reached some of the raids that ARE reasonably challenging and in the environments they're asking for

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OP is a savage raider. Maybe don't assume that the class listed here, especially when the website so often bugs out and fails to update one's choice of character, is the highest level someone has.

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the Ivalice raids are most definitely NOT steamrollable

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Odd. They've been steamrolled with scarcely ever a death the last... dozen or so times I've got them on roulette.

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Not to mention that they have ONLY posted comparisons to WoW

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You realize that if anyone has prior experience from another tab-target MMO's raid scene, it's almost certainly going to be WoW, right? Given its combat differences and lack of trinity, GW2 isn't going to be comparable. No action MMORPG is going to be comparable. ESO, due to its imbalance, isn't going to be relevant. Rift, due to its customization, isn't going to be comparable. Etc., etc.

Could we please drop the "If there's a WoW example, the OP must be trolling"? The examples were plenty relevant, noting places that, to the OP, generated a larger sense of cohesive identity for the serious content, in much the way that "Void Ark" isn't just "V1", "V2", "V3", and "V4" while not depending on sheer player count for at best middling difficulty.

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suggesting that FFXIV should cater to unhealthy playstyles and straight up copy WoWs latest expansion just because.

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Quote the part of the OP that said this. They merely gave examples of what they consider "actual raid environments" and asked for some variety in boss arenas and for a larger context by which to give identity to a raid tier as a whole. (Granted, such were immediately ignored because they came from WoW just so one could immediately ask "What do you mean by rEaL rAid enVironMents?")

But I'm surprised, if Alliance Raids already so well provide what the OP is asking for, that you can put up with their "unhealthy" and WoW-copy playstyles.

I do miss the Alexander and Coils style of raids just for the exploration rather than a just a circle fight. If anything the fights need to mix it up a little bit. Event a transition phase where the boss takes you to a completly different locale.

But I think most people will get that satisfaction from the 24 man raids.

[QUOTE=Neuron;5779694 But the raids and trials in FFXIV have no environments, the fights take place in just a square or circle arena. That is why I can't remember the raids and trials by name. I can name the bosses because they are memorable but I can't remember the instance name because they have no environments.

So I request square enix and Yoshida, please ditch the square and circle arena for trials and raids and make actual raid environments.[/QUOTE]

They tried "environmental raids" with The Binding Coils of Bahamut in 2.0. Dungeons from 1.0 and 2.0 like "Sastasha" and "1000 Maws of Toto Rak" emulated mainline Final Fantasy dungeons where exploration was as important as the battle system. The current "vanilla" arena raids we see now were a response to complaints about that model. Example: Queue up for The First Coil of Bahamut: Turn 3 and try and find your way to the exit on your first try without any assistance. Imagine spending a chunk of raid night doing that. This is one of the reasons why we have the "floors" we have now.

Someone in this thread mentioned the Alliance Raids. I think they are the closest we have to what you are asking for. Final Fantasy 14 has (arguably) a dynamic and complex battle system. Many players enjoy the current raid design because the simple arena structure allows this system to shine.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Say what you want about WoW but atleast that game knows how to make immersive raid environments. I am not saying FFXIV's raids are bad compared to WoW. The raids in this game are awesome with fantastic bosses and complex mechanics. But the main problem in this game is there are no raid environments compared to WoW. Like my favorite raids in WoW are Throne of Thunder, Siege of Orgrimmar, Blackrock Foundry, Hellfire Citadel and Icecrown Citadel not just because of the bosses and the lore but also because of the raid environments.

But the raids and trials in FFXIV have no environments, the fights take place in just a square or circle arena. That is why I can't remember the raids and trials by name. I can name the bosses because they are memorable but I can't remember the instance name because they have no environments.

So I request square enix and Yoshida, please ditch the square and circle arena for trials and raids and make actual raid environments.

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has been asked since 2.0

so a big NOPE from SE .....sadly

Fights like this do exist in this game. Alliance raids, Castrum Lactus Litore, Dalriada, Delubrum Reginae x2, and Baldesion Arsenal. The last two listed being exactly what people seem to want.

And while yes, I will concede that you have to jump through relic hoops to join Delubrum Reginae Savage and the Baldesion Arsenal - they exist and are very active. They have been hit content, so SE has said they are adding more.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

And while yes, I will concede that you have to jump through relic hoops to join Delubrum Reginae Savage and the Baldesion Arsenal - they exist and are very active. They have been hit content, so SE has said they are adding more.

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It is a shame that they're locked behind incredibly grindy content, though, and are likely to remain so.

Now, if version 4 of Diadem/Eureka/Bozja somehow manages to be more than mobs-and-FATE grind, and is instead novel and inspiring, well... that'd be something no MMO has much pulled off, and I doubt anyone would be upset having to do that to get to the combat content that most appeals to them.