Lets nerf WAR :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

If this does become a thing since apparently multiple people are suggesting it, SwO PLD and No-Grit-DRK should also take increased damage.

---

I agree with that. But I highly doubt their going to do it to war's and I highly doubt their going to nerf war

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

PLD and DRK take more damage, to get to 100% damage taken.

WAR still take 100% damage, and lose the bonus HP and HP healed that made up for that.

All the non-tank stances are already equal in terms of damage taken.

Then PLD get better auto attacks, WAR gets 5% damage increase, and idk for DRK. More DARKNESS stuff probably, with higher damage in the end.

Seems that PLD could get an increase (maybe put the potency of sword to 100?) but apart from this, seems good enough. (strictly comparing stances)

---

while the facts and sources on this remain to be seen, it still doesnt address the fact that warriors do a better job both in tank and out of tank stance. they dont really need the hp the gain from defiance, considering they even go as far as to wear str accessories, and the extra boost to healing is just healer buffer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

while the facts and sources on this remain to be seen

---

http://xivdb.com/?skill/48/Defiance
http://xivdb.com/?skill/28/Shield-Oath
http://xivdb.com/?skill/3629/Grit

If no one has their tank stance on, they take the same damage, have the same health, and receive the same amount of healing. If all tanks take 1x damage out of their tank stance, and you force one of these tanks to take 2x damage, they can no longer take off their tank stance as they will be nothing but a burden to the healers. This would not only harm them as MT, but also as OT where every raid AOE will do 2x damage to them. I don't think you've thought this through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

they dont really need the hp the gain from defiance, considering they even go as far as to wear str accessories, and the extra boost to healing is just healer buffer.

---

This is straight up ignorant.

ALL tanks go with STR accessories and go out fine.

and the extra boost to healing combined with the increased HP results in the same (actually, super slightly lower) overall damage mitigation than shield oath or grit. It's NOT a "healer buffer". It's an actual meat sponge to soak the extra 25% damage we warriors take over the other 2 tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

they dont really need the hp the gain from defiance, considering they even go as far as to wear str accessories, and the extra boost to healing is just healer buffer.

---

You do know that every tank wears STR accessories, right?
The HP and heal increase on Defiance is the only way WAR has comparable eHP to both the PLD and DRK in their respective tanking stances. This has been established since 2.1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airswimmer

You do know that every tank wears STR accessories, right?
The HP and heal increase on Defiance is the only way WAR has comparable eHP to both the PLD and DRK in their respective tanking stances. This has been established since 2.1.

---

And the increase to their eHP is dependant on the healer for it to be effective. It's only relevant if the Warrior is topped up, otherwise is irrelevant.
@kaisersoke #byeFelicia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airswimmer

They don't have "infinite TP." They have as much TP as melee DPS do throughout an encouter, at least MNK and DRG, which all tanks should have.



Yes. "Eviscerate" is better than Dark Passenger, but that's how WAR is designed. They're suppose to have the best AoE DPS out of all the tanks; regardless, DRK is always right on the heels on WAR in terms of DPS in A2S because DRK AoE DPS is more sustainable due to Blood Price; which, brings us to our next point.



It seems you're forgetting about Blood Price which is 10 seconds of MP regen on a 40 second cooldown. In AoE pulls that gives DRK nearly infinite MP while it's up.

You know, for someone acting as an authority on how to balance tanks you sure don't know a thing about them, but what do I know? "Eviscerate" and "overwhelm" are just too powerful. WAR needs those nerfs.

---

Sure, Decimate, mixed up with GW2 axe skill, concept is there regardless of name.

WAR TP usage in almost all scenarios is notably lower due to stack abilities. Name one physical DPS with the same TP sustainability.

As for all tanks having it, yes, but PLD and DRK have tiny amounts and WAR has twice what it needs. Prime spot for a nerf, this is one of the SOFTEST nerfs WAR can receive.

'WAR is better than X at a Y' by design, fine, read my posts I said make it worse in the areas it is not supposed to be better to justify this. However this is false, pre heavensward interviews and live letters said this was supposed to be a DRK strength. Also, there is a limit to things you can say WAR is supposed to be better at by design, you also HAVE to accept some weakness. Which brings us back to my original post.

Side note: I explicitly mentioned PLD, way to brush it to the side, let's balance every part of WAR with respect to its strongest competitor with 0 consideration for other classes shall we? WAR buys an extra minute against the enrage if taken over a PLD, imagine how valuable that was in the first couple of raid weeks.

Blood price meet temporary insanity, unless we are balancing based around tome farming again, someone specified serious content. Even if mobs did hit, as I said already this is a DRK strength by design, not WAR not hard to find Yoshi saying, yet WAR is still better. The stock argument of 'we are better at x because SE wants us to be' works against you here. Conversely I would ask for evidence of SE explicitly stating WAR was supposed to be top AoE dps, and that was part of the fundamental design.

Finally, the entire post was about equilibrium, and in the end you said I was proposing nerfs to overpower and Decimate. Typo?

I'm not acting as an authority, but as a career omnirtanker I trust myself to be a bit more
Impartial than a WAR or PLD only player. Put it this way: I'm posting this and my first 1.x relic (far more effort than 2.0) was Bravura. Also, I am not confident in my posts than others because as you will see at the bottom of this one I justify my points with actual data rather than making up the numbers.

WAR is my favourite class but trying to maintain or justify its current state will do everyone bad in the long run. It is one of those cases where it just has to step up and take the hit so everyone can move forward.


Before you try to pick numbers out of thin air to try say DRK and WAR are close HERE IS ACTUAL DATA

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7#b...Any&dataset=90

WAR 1200
DRK 1000
PLD 700

Clear difference. 20% and 70% more respectively.

The problem with this thread, and others like it, is that no one really cares why WAR has the kit it has, or deals the damage it does. All they see is that WARs have it, and they want it. SE will buff PLD if it sees fit. No ammount of arguing on the forums will help, and they likely wont take any of these dreadfull ideas with them. I understand the need to vent, but do we really need 2 or 3 threads a day devoted to it? This community (tank forums) useed to be a treasure trove of info. not the insult driven debacle it has devolved to. This is Anger all over again. DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

the amount of people spewing that word without any real evidence in these forums is seriously ridiculous. all three tanks have very unique playstyles, and itd take a lot more than a few balance changes to take away the fact that the other two tanks play and feel VASTLY different than warrior. how about we just give all tanks stacks based on their combos and give them ridiculously strong on demand mitigation at the cost of removing those stacks. that would be homogeneization. the notion that tanks should be somewhat balanced in terms of damage output and damage mitigation shouldnt be offset because you think that its making them the same

---

This.

Tanks should be able to deal roughly equivalent damage, some more than others here and there, but not 100-200 dps descrepancies. And they should have roughly equal mitigation, with maybe some being slightly stronger than others in certain fights.

They will never be actually "homogenized" in any real since of the word since the way that the jobs play mechanically is so, SO different. If MNK/DRG/NIN all did equal DPS (and actually i'm pretty sure they do factoring in raid-dps increases) no one would cry about it since, well, they all still play crazy differently. NIN has mudras and some support abilities to keep track of, DRG has a lot of mobility, rng-based positionals and BoTD uptime management, MNK has stacks, complex positionals, and various forms of stance management. There is no reason they can't strike this kind of balance with the 3 tanks. Simply no reason. Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

WAR TP usage in almost all scenarios is notably lower due to stack abilities. Name one physical DPS with the same TP sustainability.

---

It's comparable to DRG and, to some extent, MNK. No. It's not exactly the same, but the difference is negligible. You're also ignoring the fact that Equilibrium doesn't only restore TP, so by using it for TP restore you're giving up a defensive cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

this is one of the SOFTEST nerfs WAR can receive

---

It really isn't. Did you even play WAR in Turn 4 during 2.0/2.1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

'WAR is better than X at a Y' by design, fine, read my posts I said make it worse in the areas it is not supposed to be better to justify this. However this is false, pre heavensward interviews and live letters said this was supposed to be a DRK strength. Also, there is a limit to things you can say WAR is supposed to be better at by design, you also HAVE to accept some weakness. Which brings us back to my original post.

---

And what exactly is WAR better at that they need to be worse at? Don't say TP regen.

Pre-Heavensward interviews and Live Letters also said Heavensward would be a unique and exciting departure from what was previously in the game, and said that crafting/gathering would be more "casual friendly".

WAR has, by ability design, been the more damage focused tank since 2.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

Blood price meet temporary insanity, unless we are balancing based around tone farming again.

---

You do know A2/A2S exist, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

Even if mobs did hit, as I said already this is a DRK strength by design, not WAR not hard to find Yoshi saying, yet WAR is still better.

---

I've never seen anything said by Yoshi to suggest this, nor is Yoshi a class designer. That should be evident by his "suggestions" on how to use Ley Lines during the anniversary Live Letter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

The stock argument of 'we are better at x because SE wants us to be' works against you here. Conversely I would ask for evidence of SE explicitly stating WAR was supposed to be top AoE dps, and that was part of the fundamental design.

---

The evidence is how the class is designed. WAR has the strongest AoE enmity generation skill, and how Decimate is by design, which no other class has an equivalent, clearly caters them towards strong AoE DPS.
Despite all this, DRK is still only ~5% behind the WAR in encounters like A2S.

By the way, your WAR is only 52. You haven't even gotten Equilibrium yet alone used it in anything serious.