Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can barely play this as an MMO but nor can you really play this as a standalone FF title in the series

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I don't disagree with this, to be fair. It's an MMORPG, despite people's claims that it's not or that it's merely a standard Final Fantasy game masquerading as an MMORPG, but it definitely does not give you the wealth of things to do (outside of raid content) that other MMORPGs often do. At least not from one patch to the next.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Besides, the hardcore playerbase has it made it abundantly clear, especially with Chaotic, that they hold such casuals in complete and utter disgust and don't want such players in "their" game anyway, so might as well just let them have it then, let them hold the game up on their own instead of expecting others to keep it running for them while being spat on by community and developer alike.

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Huh? Where does this come from? Chaotic is not as newcomer-friendly as Extreme is, but it's still a comparatively forgiving fight because the DPS requirement is so insanely low. It means for example a newcomer healer can focus fully on healing, or anybody can pay a lot of focus on the mechanics. And now that we're past week 1 tactics and stuff like HealersOut is a tactic, which makes this even more relaxed, it really isn't that problematic a fight any more?

What makes you think Chaotic is meant only for the truly hardcore? That'd be Ultimates, no?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

You can say they get a few pieces of content 'exclusive' to them, but really that's not even the point. The replay and longevity value of the overlapping content is significantly different. In the same vein that releasing casual content like large-scale raids benefits a lot more players than just casual folk. It still has several pieces of content behind it which are pretty good incentive to anyone seeking a challenge.

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So erm... I dread to ask, but what would, in your opinion, add "longevity" to normal raids?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The problem is, is that the replay value between both pieces of content are not nearly the same. Like, you can't really sit there with a straight face for example and say Normal mode MSQ trials offer the same replay value and longevity as an Extreme, which has many people replaying that a great deal of times times for a mount, or more if they are unlucky and don't want to wait 4 months. Same thing with Normal raids, the gear is invalidated the same second it releases. Why do you have weekly gated normal mode gear with equivalent item level to crafted DoW/M gear which is significantly easier to obtain. Same thing with Alliance Raid and augmented crafted.

You can say they get a few pieces of content 'exclusive' to them, but really that's not even the point. The replay and longevity value of the overlapping content is significantly different. In the same vein that releasing casual content like large-scale raids benefits a lot more players than just casual folk. It still has several pieces of content behind it which are pretty good incentive to anyone seeking a challenge.

It's 50-50, in the grand scheme of things, and ultimately they have a bad content pipeline. Now, I don't know exactly whether you're defending that pipeline or just replying to OP, but it's absolutely absurd for both casual players and raiders alike.

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I mean the fact that the normal easy stuff they keep releasing is bad has nothing to do with raiding. That's a separate problem we're discussing here, here we're discussing on whenever casual people are "left with the crumbs" which is not true, and i'll try and explain it responding to Ezraa here:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Snip

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Here's where the hardcore - casual dichotomy falls apart. Because raiding content is made to last because it's challenging, but normal content isn't made for people who want to endlessly spend time in FFXIV, It's literally made for people who play this game CASUALLY. As in once or twice a week.

You exhausting every single piece of content from Golden Saucer to Blue Mage to Eureka, are not playing this game casually. Hell, you're more hardcore than I am.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

So erm... I dread to ask, but what would, in your opinion, add "longevity" to normal raids?

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Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Make friends, join discords where the purpose is recruitment, find like-minded individuals to accomplish a shared goal. These are basic social skills.

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I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

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Agreed,
There are 1,000 awesome things that you could give crafters to do that would still sell like hotcakes.
In fact no infinite!
Why do they have to 'tie' craftining into the battle content gear.
Because the crafting really is essential to savage at the end of the day.
Heck they could allow crafters to craft gear upgrade materials that allow dieing of gear.
There are even other crafted upgrade materials you could let crafters make that would mean crafting and scalpers are no longer an obstace to gearing, but rather the 'ulimate' requirement to gearing.
Give the crafters something that is the best and the essense of the the current expansion.
There are other options I haven't imagined, but the opportunities are endless.
I ran the normal loads. (I couldn't afford crafted gear and all the melds to make it worthwhile.)
This is software, nothing is set in stone, things can change.
You open up the path to higher end content, and just 'enjoying' crafting at your own pace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Agreed,
There are 1,000 awesome things that you could give crafters to do that would still sell like hotcakes.
In fact no infinite!
Why do they have to 'tie' craftining into the battle content gear.
Because the crafting really is essential to savage at the end of the day.
Heck they could allow crafters to craft gear upgrade materials that allow dieing of gear.
There are even other crafted upgrade materials you could let crafters make that would mean crafting and scalpers are an obstace to gearing, but rather the 'ulimate' requirement to gearing.
Give the crafters something that is the best and the essense of the the current expansion.
There are other options I haven't imagined, but the opportunities are endless.
I ran the normal loads. (I couldn't afford crafted gear and all the melds to make it worthwhile.)
This is software, nothing is set in stone, things can change.
You open up the path to higher end content, and just 'enjoying' crafting at your own pace.

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Tying crafted in with battle is healthy and I 100% think it's good, and I think it should be tied in more, like the old days where you had to craft items for your relic. Or heaven forbid actually communicate with other people if you needed another method to obtain it.

I just in general find it a really dumb idea that you have a weekly gated gearing method that is released at the same time as crafted, which is substantially easier to obtain, and isn't locked behind any form of weekly time gate. It used to matter when being a crafter was actually a demanding way to play the game, and not something you could just do at a whim. Why am I going to bother doing Normal outside of the 1-time completion when there's already an ungated handout?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

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Oh, I genuinely thought this was a joke for a second due to the sheer absurdity but you're actually serious aren't you?

Very telling that you haven't applied to many statics, if you've even done it once lmao.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

---

You forgot the "basic social skills" part. I'd start there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

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Personally I don't buy crafted gear because I see no reason as to why I need BiS/high end gear when I am not planning on raiding. It's literally not needed for non-raiders.
I play the normal raids for the gear because I don't have to waste gil on it and I think it's more fun to play than simply craft/buy something from a menu and then have nothing to do strive for/keep me occupied, again.

Getting crafted gear designed for entry-raid levels and not raid is like buying a high spec PC to play 10 year old games.
You might find personal satisfaction of having "great" gear but it's not anywhere needed for the non-raiding content.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

You forgot the "basic social skills" part. I'd start there.

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My head? Back in my hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

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"Raiding" in this game is actually "how well can i understand and memorize a guide" and "this has to be done as fast and efficiently as possible" and "anyone who's worse or slower than me should quit the game."

Don't worry, if anything goes wrong in the song and dance that is memorizing the guide and a perfect rotation (someone makes an oopsie, you butterfingers your rotation, etc.) it'll probably be your fault and you'll be told off at least twice for it. What part of this DOESN'T sound fun???

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"Raiding" in this game is actually "how well can i understand and memorize a guide" and "this has to be done as fast and efficiently as possible" and "anyone who's worse or slower than me should quit the game."

Don't worry, if anything goes wrong in the song and dance that is memorizing the guide and a perfect rotation (someone makes an oopsie, you butterfingers your rotation, etc.) it'll probably be your fault and you'll be told off at least twice for it. What part of this DOESN'T sound fun???

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You have to be good and actually do a tiny bit of research to do the hardest content in the game ?

No way ! Who would have thought you actually had to be good (or at least willing to get better) at the game to complete the most difficult content in the game !

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

You have to be good and actually do a tiny bit of research to do the hardest content in the game ?

No way ! Who would have thought you actually had to be good (or at least willing to get better) at the game to complete the most difficult content in the game !

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You have to be good? Good at what? Good at memorization? What exactly takes skill in how this game handles raiding? If you said it took time of repeatedly bashing your head against the ground, then yeah, I'd agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

You have to be good? Good at what? Good at memorization? What exactly takes skill in how this game handles raiding? If you said it took time of repeatedly bashing your head against the ground, then yeah, I'd agree.

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Memorising something while being bombarded with information and maintaining uptime is definitely a skill, multitasking is a skill.

The issue isn't if raiders are skilled, of course they are, it's if the rest of casual players are interested in that kind of content. I know I'm not, I don't find it fun or entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Personally I don't buy crafted gear because I see no reason as to why I need BiS/high end gear when I am not planning on raiding. It's literally not needed for non-raiders.
I play the normal raids for the gear because I don't have to waste gil on it and I think it's more fun to play than simply craft/buy something from a menu and then have nothing to do strive for/keep me occupied, again.

Getting crafted gear designed for entry-raid levels and not raid is like buying a high spec PC to play 10 year old games.
You might find personal satisfaction of having "great" gear but it's not anywhere needed for the non-raiding content.

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The way I see it is character progression is pretty intrinsic regardless of whether you do high-end raiding or not, and gear is one of the key defining factors of this. The normal gear is also as much for casual players doing gearing catch-up as to what it is for high-end raiders that want to raid day 1, the only difference being the latter is generally more lucrative than the former due to the urgency. Some people might grind Normal Mode for it, and that's fine, but when you have a direct comparison like crafted placed up against a weekly gated gearing, then the design choice just strikes me as bizarre, as irrespective of content deficit, people are typically going to go with convenience factor or factor of least resistance.

many, many things in this game go much quicker if you have gear beyond what the minimum asks of you. So yes, you can say it isn't necessary all you like, but it absolutely is practical beyond just "Man I feel good".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

---

I really feel sorry for you if this is your outlook. To think everyone is constantly talking behind your back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

and "anyone who's worse or slower than me should quit the game."

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I think it's funny because either no one has said this, or you found an asshole who did, and decided to paint the broadest stroke possible to all the raiding community with it.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I think it's funny because either no one has said this, or you found an asshole who did, and decided to paint the broadest stroke possible to all the raiding community with it.

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Most of the people saying things like that in here know they don't have a leg to stand on without this fictional evil raider persona they've invented. I swear every post is more ridiculous than the last.

"You have to give them your social security number and your firstborn child to join a static and if you mess up your rotation even ONCE they come to your HOUSE and BURN IT DOWN and KICK YOUR DOG!!!!!1"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I giggled.

Static? Where I must apply like a job? With curriculum, interview and all? To be even more judged by toxic hardcore players?

Discord? Where hardcore players can speak their minds without limits and be as toxic as they want without risk being banned?

Any other suggestion?

---

I'm sorry if you really do have this outlook. It doesn't have to be this way.

I guess I've been really lucky to have had an UWU static find me rather the other way around because I have a tank at max. I would normally join PFs otherwise, for better or worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Most of the people saying things like that in here know they don't have a leg to stand on without this fictional evil raider persona they've invented. I swear every post is more ridiculous than the last.

"You have to give them your social security number and your firstborn child to join a static and if you mess up your rotation even ONCE they come to your HOUSE and BURN IT DOWN and KICK YOUR DOG!!!!!1"

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My three favorite anti-raiding vibes in this thread were:

1.- That 1% of the player population has the neural pathways to multitask and react to incoming mechanics.
2.- That they didn't agree with the lifestyle of raiders as long as they raid behind closed doors.
3.- That we are a crazy elite forcing Square Enix to only cater to us while non-raiders are left for the slums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The way I see it is character progression is pretty intrinsic regardless of whether you do high-end raiding or not, and gear is one of the key defining factors of this. The normal gear is also as much for casual players doing gearing catch-up as to what it is for high-end raiders that want to raid day 1, the only difference being the latter is generally more lucrative than the former due to the urgency. Some people might grind Normal Mode for it, and that's fine, but when you have a direct comparison like crafted placed up against a weekly gated gearing, then the design choice just strikes me as bizarre, as irrespective of content deficit, people are typically going to go with convenience factor or factor of least resistance.

many, many things in this game go much quicker if you have gear beyond what the minimum asks of you. So yes, you can say it isn't necessary all you like, but it absolutely is practical beyond just "Man I feel good".

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But it is when people to go for the "convenience factor or factor of least resistance" that they make a direct decision to choose not to partake in content the game provides.
So it really baffles me when people make a choice and then complain that "there's nothing to do" when they chose to avoid doing it.
It's like saying if you went to a buffé and only picked the fried chicken, then complained how there wasn't anything else to choose from.
Taste in things are personal and not everyone likes everything. But complaining when choosing to limit oneself just feels odd to me.
Just accept that you do what you want to and don't put blame on others that they "can enjoy" more stuff than what you do.

I know people don't like it when others tell them to "play something else".
But honestly it's not a bad suggestion.
Instead of clinging on to a game that just makes one complain over the lack of things to do, why not take a break for a month or so and try enjoy something else meanwhile.
I'm only back here because I wanted to buy a mount from Chaotic. I've already canceled the sub and don't plan on actively play until maybe end of expansion to catch up before the next one.
And to people saying that they would've quit if it wasn't because they had a house.
Wouldn't it be more up-sides to just pay the sub while doing something else?
Than paying a sub and complain that there's nothing to do and that the state of the game is downright bad right now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

But it is when people to go for the "convenience factor or factor of least resistance" that they make a direct decision to choose not to partake in content the game provides.
So it really baffles me when people make a choice and then complain that "there's nothing to do" when they chose to avoid doing it.
It's like saying if you went to a buffé and only picked the fried chicken, then complained how there wasn't anything else to choose from.
Taste in things are personal and not everyone likes everything. But complaining when choosing to limit oneself just feels odd to me.

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Path to higher resistance is not necessarily an appropriate way of consuming content either. It's not really about limiting oneself, but having a good enough reason to actually partake in that content more than once. It's useless that one should need to partake in needlessly elongated methods of presenting or doing content, just for the sake of giving them something to do. You would have a point if I refused to engage in Normal Mode in any capacity, but I do not, there is simply no reason to do it due to fairly bad design.

Playing something else has never been a bad suggestion by any stretch of the imagination, but ultimately people are trying to present ideas to make the game better. At this point it would not be "Take a break for a month", but "Take a break for several months", and regardless of whether I take a break, that issue will still be there time and time again. So personally, I will continue to play due to friends, and I will continue to make complaints about the game where I feel the need to do so. Whilst also already spending a significant amount of time playing other games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Path to higher resistance is not necessarily an appropriate way of consuming content either. It's not really about limiting oneself, but having a good enough reason to actually partake in that content more than once. It's useless that one should need to partake in needlessly elongated methods of presenting or doing content, just for the sake of giving them something to do.

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Well, other than that they might think that the content they are doing is fun?
Not everyone finds enjoyment grinding the same stuff over and over.
But to some maybe the 10 minute runs now and then is all they need to have a good time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Playing something else has never been a bad suggestion by any stretch of the imagination, but ultimately people are trying to present ideas to make the game better. At this point it would not be "Take a break for a month", but "Take a break for several months", and regardless of whether I take a break, that issue will still be there time and time again.

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But think about it, isn't this thread about maybe it's time for a "casual strike"?
And what's a strike if not people stop playing for longer periods of times?
The problems might still remain. Or it could give the sign that people are unhappy and more and more just stop playing and something has to be done.
That people find other games more enjoyable and worth their time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Well, other than that they might think that the content they are doing is fun?
Not everyone finds enjoyment grinding the same stuff over and over.
But to some maybe the 10 minute runs now and then is all they need to have a good time.



But think about it, isn't this thread about maybe it's time for a "casual strike"?
And what's a strike if not people stop playing for longer periods of times?
The problems might still remain. Or it could give the sign that people are unhappy and more and more just stop playing and something has to be done.
That people find other games more enjoyable and worth their time.

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Maybe they do. I am not arguing against how one might find the game fun, just presenting alternative ideas as to what might help increase the replayability and longevity of the normal content.

Trust me the developers already know the problems are happening, and whether or not they are doing something about it is an entirely different matter. They know about the problems when their active subscribers drop continually and continually each patch. Players can see it visibly in-game even. Equally they already know full well of the issues when they continually make subtle comments like "Why are your friends not playing". This is why a strike will never really amount to much.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

My three favorite anti-raiding vibes in this thread were:

1.- That 1% of the player population has the neural pathways to multitask and react to incoming mechanics.

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This one blew my mind a few pages back. Raiders have been vilified this entire thread meanwhile you've got a casual player in here insisting some people are just too genetically inferior to not stand in AOEs. Wild.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This one blew my mind a few pages back. Raiders have been vilified this entire thread meanwhile you've got a casual player in here insisting some people are just too genetically inferior to not stand in AOEs. Wild.

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Just from reading this forum, that might actually be the case. How many times have people complained about having "only a split second to react" because they're only bothering to look at the orange on the floor and don't notice the boss pulling their arm back for ten whole seconds as they prepare to cleave half the arena?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I think it's funny because either no one has said this, or you found an asshole who did, and decided to paint the broadest stroke possible to all the raiding community with it.

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You must've been reading no post but this one, since it's an experience I've seen posted frequently, recently. Weird that you're some how saying I apply it to every raider and then proceeding to take offense on behalf of every raider, though. Pop off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Most of the people saying things like that in here know they don't have a leg to stand on without this fictional evil raider persona they've invented. I swear every post is more ridiculous than the last.

"You have to give them your social security number and your firstborn child to join a static and if you mess up your rotation even ONCE they come to your HOUSE and BURN IT DOWN and KICK YOUR DOG!!!!!1"

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"Gasp, an experience that hasn't happened to me! Clearly made up and they're just bad skill issue git good" is pretty much this post. Mileage varies, not every experience matches your own.

I wonder if both things can't be true.

Maybe some of these folks demonizing raiders got reasonable advice at some point in their lives like "please pull wall to wall," "stop using cure 1," or "please don't stand in the telegraphed AoE" and told themselves that raiders are toxic elitists that demand perfection.

Have you seen the general population in PF lately? You can avoid basically all negative interactions by not being the worst player in the group, which is, in practice, a very low bar to get over. The vast, vast, vast majority of player-to-player interactions in raiding are exchanges of silence after a lockout of wiping, then going about separate ways. Nobody judges or cares--nobody says anything at all in fact, except in the most extreme circumstances.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Most of the people saying things like that in here know they don't have a leg to stand on without this fictional evil raider persona they've invented.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"Gasp, an experience that hasn't happened to me! Clearly made up and they're just bad skill issue git good" is pretty much this post.

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https://y.yarn.co/744d8432-dbac-48b5...4cdfe_text.gif

Casual strike until they release a butt slider?

Startiiiiiing now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

https://y.yarn.co/744d8432-dbac-48b5...4cdfe_text.gif

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I keep wondering how powerful their strawman is.

casual strike eh?
we would first have to define what a casual actually is.
the weaker players?
the players who play less regardless of the content?
or players who only do a certain kind of content? and whag content? msq and dungeons? normal raids? some say ex trials as well.
i am a casual raider. does that make me casual too regardless of everything else?

questions over questions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I appreciate that we've finally departed from this nonsensical 'neurobiology dictates that only 1% of people have the theoretical potential to clear savage' and arrived at the real limiting factor: finding something fun or not.

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Is your position really so weak that you have to make stuff up? Nobody claimed this, that would be ridiculous. It's trivially refuted by the clear rates.

But yes, fun in a game is rather important. In fact, it's the whole point. And those of us who don't find raiding fun would be really grateful if some people here would stop telling us we don't raid because we're lazy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volgia

My three favorite anti-raiding vibes in this thread were:

1.- That 1% of the player population has the neural pathways to multitask and react to incoming mechanics.
2.- That they didn't agree with the lifestyle of raiders as long as they raid behind closed doors.
3.- That we are a crazy elite forcing Square Enix to only cater to us while non-raiders are left for the slums.

---

Oh and here's another one fabricating to push an agenda. Good grief.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This one blew my mind a few pages back. Raiders have been vilified this entire thread meanwhile you've got a casual player in here insisting some people are just too genetically inferior to not stand in AOEs. Wild.

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Welcome to the party! Do you coordinate over Discord?

Are you sure you're a casual if you give this much of a phooka?

We are in a difficult situation whether the content is way too easy or way too hard and both are equally true right now.

Normal Content is not at the standard of a typical RPG difficulty and level of engagement that has been missing in recent years in general with RPGs.

If 2000s Era ATLUS had made FFXIV I think they would have done a better job with the World Zone monster encounters or anything else really.

Savage Content relies way too much on OHKO to punish all 8 players if one players makes a mistake, I think such situations should only happen at least 3 or even just 1 time (except Hard Enrage).

Midcore Content - Few exists, but happen to be the most fun and balanced of the bunch (bozja, Eureka, Deep Dungeons to some extent though POTD has some issues with Solo).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LateNightSuki

Focus on hardcore content, casual content suffers (despite the numerous casual activities coming up in the patches), focus on casual content, oops the endgame is gone, what then?

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Endgame? I suppose you can define that the endgame is hardcore combat, but I'm not sure how that can be accurate when most people don't engage in it. As others have noted, the combat system has always been one of the weaker aspects of the game. I've never heard of anyone trying FF14 because of the good combat mechanics - generally they're regarded as being janky thanks to the netcode.

You have a whole community who enjoy the fact that it is basically a tribute to the rest of the franchise, and others who pursue all the other things the world offers. Hell, you ask in any of the starter cities what the endgame is, I imagine the most common response might be "glam." Never occurred to me anyone would regard it as raiding.

Anyone else remember this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

So yes, I have said all I care to on this topic, and will walk away from it because I am tired of being insulted by you and your cronies.

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