SE Please add jump and swiming

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10-25-2011, 05:11 AM
Jennestia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

I'm for free jumping (especially with a jump-accommodated 2.0 redesign)
I'm fine with free or level-designed swimming... but what exactly does level-designed swimming really mean?

It means designing the area to actually make swimming useful, i.e in FFXI The Alzadaal Undersea Ruins could have been a ruins you eventually found while traveling underwater which you then enter and take part in the content found there instead of entering it via cave/staging point. -- Also like in platformers where you have to jump across crumbling (insert) type of platforms, things like that.
10-25-2011, 05:15 AM
Zaireeka2025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennestia

It means designing the area to actually make swimming useful, i.e in FFXI The Alzadaal Undersea Ruins could have been a ruins you eventually found while traveling underwater which you then enter and take part in the content found there instead of entering it via cave/staging point. -- Also like in platformers where you have to jump across crumbling (insert) type of platforms, things like that.

Well I ask because why in the world wouldn't it be "structured" if it was being implemented in the first place? Why would SE put it in if it wasn't going to be designed well in examples like dungeon entrances? Seemed like a moot statement trying to differentiate the two.

If SE is going to add swimming, of course they will structure environments to take full use of swimming and not simply allow us to swim circles in pointless lakes for no reason (given that we'd have the ability to swim, you could if you wanted... its called freedom). That's what being a game designer is all about. No need to explain it to me Jen.
10-25-2011, 05:24 AM
Rowyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

There's good reasoning behind why Yoshi wanted to implement jump, and its very simple. The year is 2011 (soon to be 2012). That's it. It's the same reason why every single first-person shooter out there no longer plays like Wolfenstein 3D or Doom. It's the same reason why FFXIV has an action bar palette of skills to choose from at the bottom of the screen. Let's be real; Final Fantasy XI copied all the good mmo's of its time... namely Everquest.

What people (especially FFXI players) are forgetting is that we're dealing with Square Enix here. Not Blizzard. So if SE decides they want to add another dimension to the game like jump, then you know it will be done beautifully and with respect to the way they make games. They just added jump to FFXIII-2 and it's awesome, because SE did it. Not Blizzard. I think we all (especially FFXI conservatives) have to remember: Square Enix is making this game. Not Blizzard. If Yoshi (Producer and Director at Square Enix) wants to add jump, let him. Because I'm pretty damn sure they will all do a fine job implementing it.

As for all these "bunny rabbits" jumping around in all the other mmo's out there. Call me crazy, but why in the world does that even bother people?! You people that hate jump consider yourselves some kind of Final Fantasy elitists who think our game sets itself apart from "all those other mmo's" because we are glued to the ground like prisoners of some Gravity spell. Get over yourselves. Is seeing people jump really going to ruin the game experience for y'all? The answer is NO. It won't. You guys will still play and enjoy this game regardless and forget about this whole debate. Seeing people jump shouldn't drive ppl insane, and if it does... then y'all got problems and need to see a therapist for something so menial like a fundamental mmo mechanic. Get off your high-horses, stop setting yourselves apart from the rest of the world, and accept that MMORPG games have evolved.

Jumping. Swimming. Climbing. Flying. All these have made major impacts in the genre. If any of these are ever added to a FINAL FANTASY game, it would be awesome and welcome. Especially because SE would be doing it. Not Blizzard.

Most epic post ever. +1

I'm also confident that if SE implemented jumping, it would be executed and animated beautifully.

Please let us jump, Yoshi-P!
10-25-2011, 06:32 AM
CrystalObsidian

If I see bunny hoppers, I will not enjoy the game. I don't care what any other "high and mighty" people say.

I'd want jump and swim only in places that matter..Special caves, certain battles..but not out in the open at any time. There's absolutely no purpose for it.
10-25-2011, 06:43 AM
Zaireeka2025

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

If I see bunny hoppers, I will not enjoy the game. I don't care what any other "high and mighty" people say.

I'd want jump and swim only in places that matter..Special caves, certain battles..but not out in the open at any time. There's absolutely no purpose for it.

There's also no purpose to /dance or /sit either. Might as well take those out too.
10-25-2011, 06:59 AM
Preypacer

Quote:

Originally Posted by irongripz

seriously does this need to be in this thread? derail the debate more it helps you guys win it.

Not a matter of derailing anything. I've said my piece about jumping already.

My last post is a matter of calling out someone on these forums for their hypocrisy.

That said... You know, there's this amazing power that people have when it comes to things like reading a post or not reading a post. It's called choice. Check it out, it works like this. If you find that a post - or even an entire thread! - doesn't suit your interests or doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand, you have the choice to not read it.

That you choose to read a post that you find of no interest to you, given the choice not to, is your problem, not mine. No one's forcing you to read it.
10-25-2011, 07:06 AM
Shipp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Not a matter of derailing anything. I've said my piece about jumping already.

My last post is a matter of calling out someone on these forums for their hypocrisy.

That said... You know, there's this amazing power that people have when it comes to things like reading a post or not reading a post. It's called choice. Check it out, it works like this. If you find that a post - or even an entire thread! - doesn't suit your interests or doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand, you have the choice to not read it.

That you choose to read a post that you find of no interest to you, given the choice not to, is your problem, not mine. No one's forcing you to read it.

You didn't call me out on hypocrisy, because there was none. You made up your own version of what I said in that other thread and instead of debating what I actually said, you debated what your mind turned my post into.
10-25-2011, 07:08 AM
CrystalObsidian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

There's also no purpose to /dance or /sit either. Might as well take those out too.

They do serve a purpose, they're EMOTES. They're designed to help the players express themselves, as if they would in real life.

And I know what you're going to say, you're going to argue that "jumping" can be expressive too, like emotes. Well in that case, it's still pretty damn useless. There's no place to use Jump as of now, and why hop like a bunny when you can just type /cheer to be expressive?
10-25-2011, 07:14 AM
Preypacer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onidemon

Then a friend convinced me to play WOW, i was hooked after the first day and never looked back. Once i got tired of WOW i tried other mmos out there, like Conan and Warhammer and liked what these games had to offer to and let me tell you that while i had only but good memories of FFXI, it is very outdated. It doesn't cut it anymore.... they are way behind everyone else and just don't provide or satisfy like any of the newer mmos, even the ones who failed.

It was good while it lastest, when it was it's time to shine, but now the genre has evolved and it couldnt keep up. So why would i want 2011-12 MMORPG to be like a 8yr old game that has been surpassed by other games countless times before?

No one's asking for FFXIV to become like an 8 year-old game. How many times does that have to be explained?

The whole knee-jerk response of "stop trying to make this FFXI-2!" as a reply to anyone suggesting implementing any concept from FFXI has become about as meaningful and over-used as "Go back to WoW!".

It's a lazy strawman argument that serves no purpose than to show that the people making the statement can not - or choose not to distinguish between "taking ideas that worked and finding a way to implement them into FFXIV" and "copying things wholesale from FFXI".

Here's an example... The whole Auction House thing.

FFXI has an Auction House. FFXIV has the Market Wards. SE is bringing elements of FFXI's auction house into XIV's Market Wards. They will still be Market Wards. There will still be NPCs selling stuff. There will simply be a couple elements of XI's auction house brought into it, specifically the ability to buy directly from a search counter/location and the ability to view a price history.

They are not "bringing FFXI's auction house into FFXIV".

Understand the difference?

Want another example?

Okay, I'll give you one.

The Armory System is a new twist on FFXI's Job/Subjob system... It takes the basic concept of being able to have a main class with the utility of a support class, but implements it in a different way, allowing for the flexibility of selecting skills from different classes, and to change classes on the fly without having to go back to a Mog House to do it.

Again... A concept that is similar in its basic concept to FFXI... but they have not copied FFXI's job system wholesale into FFXIV.

The concept in both games is being able to play multiple roles on the same character. The implementation in each game, however, is completely different.

When people suggest bringing things over from FFXI, they are not automatically "asking for FFXI-2".

Now, if someone says "They shoudl implement exactly the same Auction House system as FFXI had", that's still not asking for it to become FFXI-2. They're talking about one element from FFXI. Not the entire game.

You people jumping on the "ZOMG they want FFXI-2" bandwagon really need to chill the hell out and stop with the hysterics already. THINK of what people are actually suggesting before flying off the handle at them.

As for jumping in FFXIV... again... it's already been stated that it will be added at some point down the road. It's not a high priority for them at this time. So why the heck is this whole "jumping! no jumping! jumping! no jumping!" debate still going on?

SE's already indicated that there will be jumping down the road. They've even answered questions about it in interviews.
10-25-2011, 07:15 AM
Shipp

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

They do serve a purpose, they're EMOTES. They're designed to help the players express themselves, as if they would in real life.

And I know what you're going to say, you're going to argue that "jumping" can be expressive too, like emotes. Well in that case, it's still pretty damn useless. There's no place to use Jump as of now, and why hop like a bunny when you can just type /cheer to be expressive?

Why type /cheer to be expressive when you can jump instead, since you apparently think the two are the same?
10-25-2011, 07:18 AM
Preypacer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipp

You didn't call me out on hypocrisy, because there was none. You made up your own version of what I said in that other thread and instead of debating what I actually said, you debated what your mind turned my post into.

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

So, now I "made up my own version of what you said"?

I see you're still trying to spin and distort your story. No surprise there.

Excuse me... but did you, or did you not state that FFXIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues you had personally with them in XI. Was or was not your response what it was even though I very clearly explained that you would not have to hunt/camp them because you'd have another option to obtain the same, or identical items via Instanced content?

You certainly weren't saying "Yeah, as long as they're optional and I can avoid doing them without missing out on anything, I guess that would be okay", or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

But, by all means.. please clarify exactly what your bottom-line opinion on them is. Let's see how consistent your argument now is with what you said before... Also, let's see how much of what I said you conveniently ignore, dismiss or twist around to do so.

If you can sufficiently explain your case, without contradicting what you've said previously, without cherry-picking, distorting or ignoring details of my suggestion, and without revising history in the process, then I'll concede your point. Short of that, you are and shall remain a hypocrite for the arguments you're making now that it involves something you would like... jumping to be specific.
10-25-2011, 07:30 AM
Shipp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

So, now I "made up my own version of what you said"?

I see you're still trying to spin and distort your story. No surprise there.

Excuse me... but did you, or did you not state that FFXIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues you had personally with them in XI?

You certainly weren't saying "Yeah, as long as they're optional and I can avoid doing them without missing out on anything, I guess that would be okay", or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

But, by all means.. please clarify exactly what your bottom-line opinion on them is. Let's see how consistent your argument now is with what you said before... Also, let's see how much of what I said you conveniently ignore, dismiss or twist around to do so.

Dude, quit derailing this thread. Everyone can go read that thread and see that you completely twisted what I said.

For the record for the 5th time or so now, no, I never stated XIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues I had with them in XI. I said I don't want to see them implemented as they were in XI. I have kept clarifying this point for you numerous times now, and you're only looking like a pathetic derailer out to "prove someone wrong" instead of actually civilly debating.
10-25-2011, 07:34 AM
Riv

I wouldn't mind a fight where say you are standing in waist high water fighting a dragon or something. Then he goes to breath fire and you have to dive underwater to avoid it. That would be cool. Or some other kind of stuff like that. Not swiming just for the hell of it.
10-25-2011, 07:50 AM
Zaireeka2025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riv

I wouldn't mind a fight where say you are standing in waist high water fighting a dragon or something. Then he goes to breath fire and you have to dive underwater to avoid it. That would be cool. Or some other kind of stuff like that. Not swiming just for the hell of it.

Do most people think we are asking for jumping and swimming for the hell of it? Of course we want it to be functionally related to the environment and battles. It is not simply to jump or swim circles around you we promise.
10-25-2011, 07:51 AM
Zaireeka2025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

Seriously Prey... quit attacking Shipp and bringing in walls of text with no relevance to the topic.
10-25-2011, 07:57 AM
Zaireeka2025

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

They do serve a purpose, they're EMOTES. They're designed to help the players express themselves, as if they would in real life.

And I know what you're going to say, you're going to argue that "jumping" can be expressive too, like emotes. Well in that case, it's still pretty damn useless. There's no place to use Jump as of now, and why hop like a bunny when you can just type /cheer to be expressive?

Emoting can be done via text so its not needed other than a physical pleasure. We also don't need mounts or airships since we can teleport.

My point is: We have things that are not essential to the core gameplay but are still vital to making the world feel alive and full of options. Jumping and swimming are but a few of those options that should be available to us.
10-25-2011, 08:11 AM
Preypacer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipp

Dude, quit derailing this thread. Everyone can go read that thread and see that you completely twisted what I said.

For the record for the 5th time or so now, no, I never stated XIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues I had with them in XI. I said I don't want to see them implemented as they were in XI. I have kept clarifying this point for you numerous times now, and you're only looking like a pathetic derailer out to "prove someone wrong" instead of actually civilly debating.

Oh look! Derailing the thread while accusing me of doing the same! More hypocrisy from Shipp! Who'd-a-thunk it?

"Dude", I did read your response in the other thread... every single distorted and semantics-juggling paragraph of it.

I'll take just one example out of the smorgasbord of examples you provided in your -ahem- "explanation" to demonstrate how completely full of it you are.

I clearly suggested a system like the one used for NM drops, where one is a rare/ex drop from a world mob, and the other is a non rare/ex drop from an Instance/BCNM. That's the system I was suggesting.

It's quite clear I was speaking of the system itself, not the time-frame it existed in. When it was implemented is completely irrelevant. So why the hell would you respond with, "that's not how it was when I was doing HNMs" when the time frame had nothing to do with it? And even if I was, the time frame of the system I'm referring to clearly came later than when you were doing your HNMs... No matter how you look at it, your response makes absolutely no sense and is entirely irrelevant to what I suggested.

You don't even need a college education to realize that.

And that's just one example of many throughout your "explanation post". You're not "explaining" anything. You're revising, back-pedaling and re-defining what you said to try and cover your own ass after the fact. Sorry, don't work that way. Your statements were made, and taken, in the context they were intended at the time they were made. You don't get to change it all around now that you've been called out for conveniently changing your stance on "what should be implemented into the game" when it suits you.

Nice try,though.

Thanks for playing, hypocrite.

I will now stop derailing the thread, and I apologize to those who were aggravated by it. I just couldn't let such blatant hypocrisy go unanswered.
10-25-2011, 08:16 AM
CrystalObsidian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipp

Why type /cheer to be expressive when you can jump instead, since you apparently think the two are the same?

I specifically said jump is useless. It will always be useless if SE just throws it in the game because some anal players want to ability to hop around for no reason.
10-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Skirata

Hi everyone!

Thank you all for posting your opinions about whether or not to add jumping and swimming to the game. We greatly appreciate the discussion and there were some good points made on both sides of it. And I am sure that the development team now have much to consider on these abilities being added or not. However this thread has become very much off topic and we will be closing it down now. Thanks again and have a great day!

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