Cash shop confirmed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphe

Oh my. It is really in a different category. You even have to scroll down twice. This changes everything.

---

Yep ^o^ you had to scroll past all the vanity fluff stuff to get to the "optional services" area. Ya know the name change fantasia stuff department?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Last time I checked this 'business' was already making money, from monthly subscription fee's. Maintaining a good relationship with customers is vital to any business, and is what stops said customer from taking their business elsewhere, in which case said business would be losing '$$MONEY$$'

It's amusing that people always paint the most crudest picture of a corporation when talking about things like this. Too many movies and marxist novels I suspect.

---

There's so much I love about this post. I'm not sure what my favorite part is. It's either when you stood up and yelled "COMMUNIST!", or when you demanded that he explain why a corporation would want to make more money when it's already making money.

This. This is what keeps me coming back to the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

My original post still holds, being in testing does not equate to being in game, I'm sorry.

My original post also stands in regards to Warcraft being an older game and needing to take steps to maintain its player base. EverQuest 1 which was very very notorious for selling power such as xp potions on it market place is no different. Both being very old games. As I said before maybe this will happen in XIV's distant future but for now I wouldn't worry.

---

And if you would read the whole post you would know that xp potions are sold to the Asian market. And that they are looking at the posibility of adding them to the NA/EU market. *hint* *hint* the patch that lowers the amount of xp needed to get max level *hint* *hint*

WoW being an older game has nothing to do with it, they are still the largest mmo on the market.

Hell if you took WoW's subscribers currentaly and ignored where they were in the past they probably still have the largest subscriber base out of any mmo ever.

The main reason MMOs charge a monthly fee is to develop more content and maintain servers for said MMO. That has always been its entire purpose and function. Many people seem to have forgotten that, and willingly give away their money every month just to have the right to play a game. It's really sad, honestly. Not allowing people to take advantage of you isn't elitist.

While I am disappointed, a part of me was expecting for this to happen, just not this soon. The only way this cash shop will fail, is if the community does not buy stuff from it. Every MMORPG with a P2P system that has introduced a cash shop got alot of money from its customers. I fear even though we are very vocal on this forum, alot of FFXIV players will buy stuff from the cash shop and make it a sucess.

This is the same as with World of Warcraft, first mounts, then minions, then vanity outfits then you can buy level ups.

I fear Square Enix is going down a dark path with this decision, lets pray Hydaelyn can protect us all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirili

There's so much I love about this post. I'm not sure what my favorite part is. It's either when you stood up and yelled "COMMUNIST!", or when you demanded that he explain why a corporation would want to make more money when it's already making money.

This. This is what keeps me coming back to the forums.

---

I understand corporations making money, but why as a consumer do you allow them to milk you so?

An example.

You have a chocobo, would you rather give SE $5 for said chocobo or would you rather not give SE $5 for said chocobo?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SongJoohee

And last I checked Final Fantasy XIV makes so much money it helped Square Enix turn around $130m loses into $40m profit in 1 year. It's greed. Plain and simple. Slepnir was going to be a drop from Odin, very likely. They decided to cut it out of the game and sell it on the shop for more money.

---

I Agree.

Well, greed and a certain amount of arrogance I think, which is natural when you have something successful on your hands. That's why it's important for the community to voice it's concern when bad decisions are made. Of course your wallet is your best voice, but hopefully it doesn't have to come to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gorror

And if you would read the whole post you would know that xp potions are sold to the Asian market. And that they are looking at the posibility of adding them to the NA/EU market. *hint* *hint* the patch that lowers the amount of xp needed to get max level *hint* *hint*

---

Oh I did read the post, but I also know the Asian market according to Blizzards numbers show a minority in sales, AKA a very niche market when it comes to Warcraft. I can't fault Blizzard at all for wanting to capitalize at all on that especially if people are willing to pay to catch up to their friends faster. If they want to add the same to the NA/EU market then fine because its back to *hint* *hint* older game, trying to bring in new subs, people want to play with their friends. XIV, newer game, not much content separating newer and older players, easier to catch up, no real need for xp potion sales yet,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirili

There's so much I love about this post. I'm not sure what my favorite part is. It's either when you stood up and yelled "COMMUNIST!", or when you demanded that he explain why a corporation would want to make more money when it's already making money.

This. This is what keeps me coming back to the forums.

---

Hmmm, you didn't say very much yourself. And no, I didn't question WHY a company would want to make more money at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gorror

I understand corporations making money, but why as a consumer do you allow them to milk you so?

An example.

You have a chocobo, would you rather give SE $5 for said chocobo or would you rather not give SE $5 for said chocobo?

---

Huhwhat. I haven't even visited the cash shop. I'm not being milked. Not that I'm swearing off buying anything, at all, ever.

A question.

Would I not receive a chocobo otherwise?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirili

Huhwhat. I haven't even visited the cash shop. I'm not being milked. Not that I'm swearing off buying anything, at all, ever.

A question.

Would I not receive a chocobo otherwise?

---

You won't receive the sleipnir mount otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gorror

I understand corporations making money, but why as a consumer do you allow them to milk you so?

An example.

You have a chocobo, would you rather give SE $5 for said chocobo or would you rather not give SE $5 for said chocobo?

---

Question:

Would $5 saved me all of that running between lvl 1 and getting a normal choco at lvl 20? That would have been worth $5 to me.


As far as it being the sleipnir mount, does it provide me any additional in game benefits that other mounts don't? otherwise, I don't care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

You won't receive the sleipnir mount otherwise.

---

In that case, I don't buy the sleipnir mount because it doesn't appeal to me, and doesn't put me at a disadvantage for not buying it.

Why are people so perplexed about this?
WoW's been doing it since years, it's only minions and mounts, where is the problem?
You don't like it because you have to buy it?
Well yeah too bad for those who don't want to pay for it but come one it's not a pay to win

It's only esthetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirSaber

Well yeah too bad for those who don't want to pay for it but come one it's not a pay to win

It's only esthetic.

---

How exactly do you "win" in a PvE-centric MMO? They could flat out sell you gil for $ and it still wouldn't be "pay to win". They could make housing plots cost real money instead of gil, and it still wouldn't be "pay to win". They could require you to pay to unlock new classes and it still wouldn't be "pay to win". Where does your acceptance of cash shops and RMT stop?

This thread is proof there are more than enough suckers to support this asinine idea.

I find it sad that people are oke with paying for stuff that they them self have funded.
Now its:
- Minions
- Mounts
- Vanity outfits

In the near future we will see
- Cash shop only classes and Jobs
- Level ups
- Special potions to increase stats

I understand if what I have written here might be a little extreme, but this has happend to other MMORPG's. At first some of the players will defend the cash shop, but when a company sees that the money that comes in from a cash shop makes them alot of profit. The question wont be what will we release in the game, no the question will be what can we release in the cash shop to make maximum profit.

Imagine The Buster Sword for $20 in cash shop, imagine jobs like Blue Mage being sold for $35. If you guys are oke with them spending the money that you funded just so they can release items that you need to pay again for, then be my guest, but do not come to the forums and whine when they start releasing stuff like iconic vanity items and jobs on the cash shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirSaber

It's only esthetic.

---

When there are so many players in a game as there are in this one, customising our characters gets quite a lot of focus, for quite a lot of us. Because nobody wants hundreds or thousands of clones running around everywhere. That said, customising the characters' own appearance is already very limited (not really that many choices for any given race); the glamour system, especially most of the glamour-only items, is very much arbitrarily gated and/or overcomplicated already; and now they plan to make an "only aesthetic" cash shop (to a game that already has a subscription fee)... that's the bigger picture where it gets iffy. And it's only a matter of time before they introduce some achievement or other that pertains to collecting a certain number of mounts/minions, which number won't be achievable without one or two cash shop items, because it's a company that's wanting to make more money, right?

In addition: just because others are doing something, it does not necessarily make that thing right; communicating with and pleasing customers should be in balance with wanting make more money, and that scale feels like it's been slowly tipping in the wrong direction; last but not least, does it even need to be discussed why so many of us can't believe a word Yoshi says anymore?...

I wonder what peoples reactions would be if they decided to, say, sell atma's in the cash shop. Things that can be obtained in game, at a low chance, or purchased if you don't want to grind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirili

Huhwhat. I haven't even visited the cash shop. I'm not being milked. Not that I'm swearing off buying anything, at all, ever.

A question.

Would I not receive a chocobo otherwise?

---

As a consumer, the chocobo(or any mount/minnions) that you currently have would you rather spend $5 on it or not spend $5 on it?

You can not not have a chocobo, its yours and its in your log. But would you have preferred to spend $5 instead of gotten it for free?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tocsin

Question:

Would $5 saved me all of that running between lvl 1 and getting a normal choco at lvl 20? That would have been worth $5 to me.


As far as it being the sleipnir mount, does it provide me any additional in game benefits that other mounts don't? otherwise, I don't care.

---

No it wont.
When you start a new character you get all your previously earned Rewards items mailed to you, including a few mounts.

However you can not use any mount until you have earned your Chocobo pass via the one and only method when you first join a GC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

...the problem is not even the cash shop itself, although I do agree that it's just not right in a game that already has a subscription fee...

The problem is the fact that, yes, now they say it's vanity stuff only

---

And that's the problem, it's NOTHING but "What If" and you are allowing that to influence what you believe will happen. Again, I have played plenty of F2P games that have completely done at absolute worst Pay for Convenience items(which is absolutely not the same as Play 2 Win) and have stuck on that model for YEARS, hell, one of my favorites(Vindictus) is opening a shop that allows you to use your Ability Points to buy Cash Shop items instead, meaning those with AP they don't need can buy some of the more expensive items without needing to pay a dime.

TL;DR Stop thinking "What If" and just give it a shot. If they do start slipping THEN it's a cause for panic.

Yo SE, and I'mma let you finish, but cash shops are a pretty upsetting move.

people still whining over cash shops in mmos, what else did I expect. Really.

Cash shops mean pretty (optional) cosmetics for us and a much higher revenue for the dev team.
And what does that finally result in? More funds to work on the game with, I.e faster updates and more content. Not having a cash shop in your mmo is wasted money.

Come whine once they decide to take the grim p2w route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhominid

Again, I have played plenty of F2P games that have completely done at absolute worst Pay for Convenience items(which is absolutely not the same as Play 2 Win) and have stuck on that model for YEARS, hell, one of my favorites(Vindictus) is opening a shop that allows you to use your Ability Points to buy Cash Shop items instead, meaning those with AP they don't need can buy some of the more expensive items without needing to pay a dime.

---

Apples and oranges. Yeah, they're both fruits, but they're not the same. FFXIV is not (as of now) F2P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhominid

If they do start slipping THEN it's a cause for panic.

---

The slip has already started, for many (if not most) of us. Different people would probably highlight different points as the start of that; to me personally, it was the personal housing fiasco, a major tear in the trust between devs and players that have already been broken and stitched together once.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhominid

You forgot fearmongering, which you guys are clearly doing. And you pay $13-15 to PLAY the game, that's how P2P works. You saying that it MUST be to access all content in the game(when most well-known F2P games do the same), that is kinda elitist. Paying for minions and mounts SHOULD NOT be a huge issue and I have no reason how people are even equating it to content is beyond my comprehension.

---

Now your coming off as aggressive.
In no way are we fear mongering. This move by them will most likely make them more money but in my opinion makes them greedy people who don't care as much about their fans as I thought. Maybe some have said that the game will fail or something like that but most have said that it's simply a slap to the face.

Yes we are entitled to everything the game has by paying a subscription and the purchase of the game itself. Why? Because that's how it's been since the game came out in 2010. Even through all the changes from 1.0-2.0 that has not changed. This is not WoW or any other game that some can simply say do the same thing so it's fine here.

Minions, mounts, and anything else they add to the game to be sold in these cash shops is content plain and simple. Because if they weren't, no one would want to buy them. as I said a few pages back, not everyone plays to do the same thing. I know many people who play a huge portion of the game to collect minions and to mounts, that's the game for them. So yes that is content to people who enjoy them.

This is in no way elitist by any means. This is simply wanting what we have been entitled to for over 4 years in this game. And again as I have said a few pages ago (which is why I mentioned reading the recent pages), it's the same thing as having a hulu account and then they say you can't watch new movies anymore unless you pay more money even though you were able to watch all of it before. By your logic no one should be mad in a situation like that and is classified as an elitist.
Your throwing that word around too casually

Tl;dr
They are gonna charge us more for things that we had access to before.
Wanting and feeling entitled to the same thing we had for over 4 years is in no way elitist.

Geesh what's with all this doom and gloom?
Tomorrow it's this? Come on guys...

And why should SE not have the right to sell in game minions and mounts?
WoW and tons of other games do the same.
Why should SE not do it? Because you don't like it?

Anyways I do not care for what they're selling, if it's nothing that gives you an advantage in game, be it PvE, Gardening, Exp boos, you name it, then I do not care about it.
I can't talk about you guys, you have your opinions ofc but I just think you shouldn't overreact that much about them selling 3 minions and 1 mount.

Just my thoughts.

So it seems that the main argument for the cash shop is that it's permissible for SE to sell items as long as they are 'vanity' items. If that is the case, then I think we need to seriously think about what we consider vanity items.

At any given time, there are only two top-tier armour sets available, and all other dungeon drops between 50 and the top iLvl are essentially useless for anything other than glamour. No-one runs 30 times to get the Robe of Divine Death for its stats, given the availability of higher level gear. Since these items only exist for vanity, it would have been reasonable for SE to put them in the cash shop rather than a dungeon, along with other glamour items like the Shikaree set. It would not have impacted anyone's progression for them to have done this, and the same goes for all minions and most mounts.

Now, I'm not sure how others would feel about this, but I personally wouldn't feel that it would be worth the subscription fee to only have access to essential 'progression' content. I know that the example takes the argument to extremes, but people should be aware of what they're advocating or excusing. When I pay $15 a month, I pay it with the expectation that I will be able to enjoy everything that the game has to offer, and that includes dressing up in my skirt and crop-top and galloping about on my unicorn.

In regards to what is already planned for the cash shop, I'm not particularly bothered by it. However, I am wary about the direction they may choose to take with it, and I can understand why people who enjoy collection would be upset by this news.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkshade

Yo SE, and I'mma let you finish, but cash shops are a pretty upsetting move.

---

They knew it really. They just wanted to see if it would be worth it. Some people will leave but their question is if money made from the shop would make up for the loss from those subs. And they'll try to push for more and more in the future to see where the fine line is.

I've been on MMOs when cash shops first appeared. It was hated by almost everyone but when not given the choice people will get used to it eventually. What was bizarre in the past becomes normal now and in 2014 you finally have people saying "still whining over cash shops". Sorta implying that we're old and behind the times. Now the cash shop on a sub mmo is just a fact of life.

I fail to see what the fuss is about. People were either being completely delusional or are new to the common day MMO genre to not expect this to be introduced. In no way does it mean this'll ever have to become more than a vanity thing. Various other AAA MMO's have preceeded FFXIV in this. And more will come. Heck, the practice is not even limited to MMO's anymore these days.

It provides extra financing for companies which can be put back into further game development, keeping investors happy and keeping people employed. It's just how the world works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fornix

People were either being completely delusional or are new to the common day MMO genre to not expect this to be introduced.

---

Why would expecting it exclude being disturbed by it when it actually happens?... People expect earthquakes to happen in Japan, but that doesn't mean they just shrug and move on as normal when they actually happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fornix

People were either being completely delusional or are new to the common day MMO genre to not expect this to be introduced.

---

I guess you're right. This was the only MMO that didn't have it and that gave it a huge plus for me. Everytime the cash shop discussion came up on other forums I would always treat this game and SE with a bit more respect, as in they didn't do what everyone else was doing. I'll just not do that anymore I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fornix

I fail to see what the fuss is about. People were either being completely delusional or are new to the common day MMO genre to not expect this to be introduced. In no way does it mean this'll ever have to become more than a vanity thing. Various other AAA MMO's have preceeded FFXIV in this. And more will come. Heck, the practice is not even limited to MMO's anymore these days.

It provides extra financing for companies which can be put back into further game development, keeping investors happy and keeping people employed. It's just how the world works.

---

The money from the cash shop will go more items for the cash shop. It will not go into further game development, look who's being delusional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Apples and oranges. Yeah, they're both fruits, but they're not the same. FFXIV is not (as of now) F2P.

---

And Blade and Soul in Korea isn't F2P and that has a cash shop, so does Aion in Korea, what's your point?

Quote:

---

The slip has already started, for many (if not most) of us. Different people would probably highlight different points as the start of that; to me personally, it was the personal housing fiasco, a major tear in the trust between devs and players that have already been broken and stitched together once.........

---

Atleast I understand the housing concerns despite not really caring about a house atm(or atleast a few months), but it still doesn't feel like this cash shop is the main issue, but the "What If" aspect.

I really hope they don't go this route; I don't want to not play this game. Only thing they should put in the cash shop is fantasia, name change. The retainer thing is -kinda- very borderline. Vanity items should ALL be in game. If you want to put the mount on the cash shop then make it so I can earn it in game without paying. I am ALREADY paying- why should I pay more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edli

This was the only MMO that didn't have it and that gave it a huge plus for me.

---

It was one of the major draw cards for me too :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhominid

And that's the problem, it's NOTHING but "What If" and you are allowing that to influence what you believe will happen..... More words... TL;DR Stop thinking "What If" and just give it a shot. If they do start slipping THEN it's a cause for panic.

---

Wait, where's the ad hominem? That's just nothing but common sense and basic reasoning. That is NOT what the founding fathers intended for this forum. No slippery slope? I don't see the term "sheeple" anywhere in this post! You didn't even allude to him being a communist. Don't you understand that this game is going to DIE because I bought a plushy for 5 dollars? Ugh, that's it. I'm making my own thread.

Because we need more Cash Shop threads.

Really lame move. Really lame. My thoughts on it are that I won't be buying it, I can live without it. It seems the people I play with are split into two camps. One being, it can't be helped. That's life. If you want cool stuff, you're going to have pay for it. Whereas the other camp, are saying that it should be apart of the subscription. Personally, I think if they really want to have a cash shop, they should have an in-game alternative so if you can either have it the easy way and buy it, or you can just grind reputation or fights and get the drop. There will be people who will want to buy it and not have to grind it, and there will be people who will want to just grind it. But that's probably wishful thinking. Also, as for Odin, I wouldn't have minded it so much if it was available to buy for a limited time while fan fest is on, so it's like, if you want to be an early bird and grab the mount before it's in the game, here's your chance. Then when the fight is finally implemented in the game, you can get it there. But again, that's wishful thinking huh.

It would've been better if they kept with the subscription rewards. They were good incentives to keep subbed to the game, which is essentially what an MMO should be aiming for. Long and consistent subs. But alas, Square Enix want to sprinkle that with money from a cash shop... can't say I'm surprised.

By the way. Why not just open a gil shop? SE could become its own official RMT - who all must be making good money from selling gil since they do seem to be sticking around, no?

ppl dont seem to understand that the cash-shopish stuff been around for ages


digital CE edition, pay $20 get 2 mounts and 2 minion and a helemt for faster exp

buy artbook/soundtrack u get a minion (sure u have other stuff but some ppl are known to buy em just for the in-game goodies)

heck ppl payed $20 for the HD premium stream just for the moogle outfit


so whats the difference from buying 1 of the above for that "exclusive" minion/mount to just buying a minion/mount