Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[kingfury]

why do you even post on these threads Tybud? lol Will no one argue with you in RL?

What do you think these boards are for truely? A place to pitch new ideas based on what's currently in the game only? New Job abilities that do nothing really "new" at all because they would break the current game code if they in fact did do something new? Just do everyone here a favor and leave now and never return if you have no plans of contributing ANYTHING original in terms of NEW IDEAS for FFXI. Because I've checked, and you've contributed nothing... zero ideas for the Dev Team on these boards. Yet you feel the need to dare try and inhibit another's creative suggestion. Why? It's more than silly to hear your troll-filled cheeks spitting nothing but negativity at anything you didn't come up with yourself ^^

Posted by Comm. Rep Bayohne in the "New ideas for v2 Two - Hour abilities?" post 19:
"Hey gang! Thanks as always for the feedback! We're letting the dev. team know about your comments and ideas, so make sure to keep 'em coming!
Let your imagination run wild! Then reel it in a little bit... then post! Or, don't reel it in at all!"

Yeah, this sounds like they want every player to go and spend hours training their minds to be ABSOLUTELY closed to anything outside of the current game formulas and possibilities of FFXI as it is before posting... "Imaginative" ideas!! ^^

Go argue with yourself in the corner somewhere PLEASE, and save room for posters that actually understand what a creative suggestion board is for. No need to respond at all, SERIOUSLY.

[TybudX]

I'm all for good ideas being furthered, but this one is bad. It is in my best interest to not see bad ideas implemented in game simply because some egotist declared himself King of Outside the Box. Do you really think there would be 7 pages of opposition to this idea if it were any good? You need to drop it. It sucks. Go work on your next life goal.

[Byrth]

OK good! So you understand! Now, lets say you theoretically make stat mods that grow throughout a player's levels. Furthermore, lets say you perfectly balance them so that all weaponskills average equal damage for a naked level 90 player!

Double Thrust, being two hits, would need substantially higher mods than Penta Thrust, being five hits, to accomplish this, would it not?

Now you put on WS gear. You have an awesome WS set gained 70 STR. Oh no! Now Double Thrust's stronger mods make it the better weaponskill! Now you use Double Thrust all the time!

OKOK, so they balance the mods for someone with your STR in WS gear. Oh no! Your friend just reactivated and has less strength than you. Penta Thrust is the better weaponskill for him and he uses it all the time!

Unless all the weaponskills have the same modifiers and same fTP, there will always be a "best" due to our ability to swap gear, merit, have racial differences, etc. What you're asking for is irrational and impossible. You seem to realize this, at least subconsciously, which is shown in your title. You don't ask for them to fix the "Break" family. You just ask for Full Break.

[kingfury]

@Byrth: Nah, the title of the thread is "Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it", so I'm targeting all break ws's with this thread.

My suggestion on the topic of making all ws's scaleable is based on making the effectiveness and power of ws's continually grow with each player as they increase in combat skills and lvl stats. That doesn't mean there still wouldn't be ws's that have certain shining qualities over other ws's, just that the effectiveness and efficiency of ws's in your list regardless of if they were acquired at low levels would still hold worth a high levels.

Even though the WS Modifications system as we've known it for all these years is governed by well known formulas and conditions, my opinion to modify ws's to be balanced based on such a concept is because it would be rewarding to see the powerful results at high levels with all of our many stat stacking options to early acquired ws's. Finding what stats modify the ws in question, and then proceeding to stack those stats to see the best results is a great feeling when they actually increase the damage lol. The problem currently with this, is that it just doesn't work so well for early acquired ws's based on the current code that governs the system.

Results would still vary from ws to ws since nearly everything in this game has certain "conditions" as to they're effectiveness. Chance of critical hit varies with TP, Damage varies with TP, and Aftermaths such as Occasionally deals double damage, etc. I'm not suggesting that everything be equal at all, just tweaked to scale with our growing power. If you asked me should Sturmwind hold the potential to do 2k+ damage at lvl 90? I would say yes. It's a ws that's designed to do damage, so as we grow in power and increase our stats, the damaging potential of the such a ws should also grow. Should a player have to build ws sets to see those impressive results instead of just expecting them to be strong while in TP gear? I say yes. The WS Mods based on early acquired ws's could even be something of a challenge vs high level ws's due to the nature of when a player gets them, so long as they work as intended.

Nothing is impossible so long as you're the folks that hold the power to mold the system as you see fit. I'm not saying that I would rebuild the system, and that's not the point of these suggestion boards. If we all had the know how of redesigning the game as we saw fit, there would be no need for a suggestion board, but since most of us can't, changes based on our opinions is what we have to work with. The Devs take suggestions from there and have the power to change the system based on the possibilities. Like augmenting an Osode, something the game couldn't allow before now can be done based on a newly added system. Don't close your mind to an idea simply because it conflicts with current game formulas and processes, since all these things can be altered.

[Mirage]

If you asked me should Sturmwind hold the potential to do 2k+ damage at lvl 90?

Just FYI, sturmwind can do 2000 damage at level 90. So i guess that means you're satisfied!

[Byrth]

If Sturmwind did the best average damage, the practical Warrior would only use Sturmwind. When weaponskills just do damage, there are no niches for them to fill. Great Axe is actually fortunate to have multiple weaponskills that are not pure damage and that potentially have situational uses. Polearm is substantially less fortunate.

I agree that some weaponskills need to be adjusted. I disagree that you can somehow invent a scaling mod system that prevents one or two weaponskills from being the best damage weaponskill.

I would make the following changes to our weaponskills:
10 - Shield Break: Increased Magical Accuracy for en-Evasion Down
40 - Iron Tempest: No change
70 - Sturmwind: Make it scale with TP as the description says, remove the funkiness that makes both of its hits 100% accurate when Sneak Attacked.
100 - Armor Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
150 - Keen Edge: Increase STR mod to 50%, double the crit boost
175 - Weapon Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
200 - Raging Rush: No changes
225 - Full Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
240 - Steel Cyclone: No changes
300 - Fell Cleave: No changes
lv75 - King's Justice: I'd increase first-hit fTP to 1.5 and have it scale up to 2.5, but this could also just be left alone.
lv85 - Ukko's Fury: No changes

In the end, at 90, Ukon WARs would use:
Ukko's Fury - For damage
Steel Cyclone - With Sneak Attack, maybe
Full Break - When debuffs from Full Break are more important than the damage you could have done with a WS
King's Justice - Potentially for Mighty Strikes still, if the changes are made.

[Volkai]

If Sturmwind did the best average damage, the practical Warrior would only use Sturmwind. When weaponskills just do damage, there are no niches for them to fill. Great Axe is actually fortunate to have multiple weaponskills that are not pure damage and that potentially have situational uses. Polearm is substantially less fortunate.

I agree that some weaponskills need to be adjusted. I disagree that you can somehow invent a scaling mod system that prevents one or two weaponskills from being the best damage weaponskill.

I would make the following changes to our weaponskills:
10 - Shield Break: Increased Magical Accuracy for en-Evasion Down
40 - Iron Tempest: No change
70 - Sturmwind: Make it scale with TP as the description says, remove the funkiness that makes both of its hits 100% accurate when Sneak Attacked.
100 - Armor Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
150 - Keen Edge: Increase STR mod to 50%, double the crit boost
175 - Weapon Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
200 - Raging Rush: No changes
225 - Full Break: Increased Magical Accuracy
240 - Steel Cyclone: No changes
300 - Fell Cleave: No changes
lv75 - King's Justice: I'd increase first-hit fTP to 1.5 and have it scale up to 2.5, but this could also just be left alone.
lv85 - Ukko's Fury: No changes

Agree, agree, agree.

These are the moderate changes that would make the full list Great Axe weapon skills much, much better overall than they currently are, while not making things overpowered.

Increased accuracy / lowered resist rates is what the Break WS could best benefit from. Break WS should not be so powerful that they obsolete debuff spells, but they do need a boost to make them worth using, and improved (debuff) accuracy is probably the thing that does that best.

[kingfury]

Just FYI, sturmwind can do 2000 damage at level 90. So i guess that means you're satisfied!

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Yeah I've done some great numbers playing around with it ^^ so yeah my point is "should" such a low lvl damaging ws hold the potential to do such damage. My answer is yes.

[Mirage]

And it does, so what exactly are you complaining about. However, who in their right mind would use a 2k damage WS when they can use a 4k+ damage ws (raging rush)

[kingfury]

@Byrth:
Again Byrth, I don't mean to steal the thunder from higher lvl ws's, since I believe they should in fact hold unique damage factors apart from lower level ws. Like Ukko's is perfect for what it is in terms of being a giant amongst damaging ws and having such a great aftermath, so I agree it's fine just the way it is. Since we have multiple "damaging ws's" in our lists however, I just want those ws's to not be worthless should a player choose to use it.

The whole argument of "Why even use it when you could just spam Ukko's" is one that I really can't defend in terms of how the game is currently. It truly would make more sense if we just had one main ws listed for "damaging ws's" in our list as we acquired the newest one in the line as we increased our combat skills vs having a list full of weaker ws's not worthy of touching. My point and question to the Devs is if we do have the choice to pick from a number of ws's to cause damage with, shouldn't each of them hold the same "potential" to cause high amounts of damage? The similar question for Break ws's; why would we use these enfeebling ws over our most powerful damaging ws's if their return does not outweigh the alternative.

So there's no real argument in terms of tweaks to the forgotten ws's that collect dust in our lists, and your suggestions would be cool to see.