Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[Mirage]

I sure want my iron tempest to be as strong as steel cyclone. That would totally make it worth doing 300 wspoints and running to the middle of nowhere to kill some NS

[Byrth]

Yeah, that's not a very reasonable stance. Weaponskills should be balanced for their level, but it's simply not reasonable to expect all of your weaponskills to be useful for all the levels. How are you going to balance Double Thrust against Penta Thrust? Full Break vs. Armor/Weapon/Shield Break? Keen Edge vs. Raging Rush?

That said, it would be nice if SE could balance weaponskills across jobs. Then Dark Knights wouldn't end up using Great Axe for the first 50+ levels, Thieves wouldn't end up using Sword or H2H for the first 32-34 levels, Dancer wouldn't end up using Sword or H2H for the first 50+ levels, etc.

[Mirage]

Or if you're not in a party, the first good ws a thf gets is dancing edge, at level 60.

[kingfury]

Yeah, that's not a very reasonable stance. Weaponskills should be balanced for their level, but it's simply not reasonable to expect all of your weaponskills to be useful for all the levels. How are you going to balance Double Thrust against Penta Thrust? Full Break vs. Armor/Weapon/Shield Break? Keen Edge vs. Raging Rush?

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Weaponskill Modifiers and job abilities and other buffs would be my answer. Steel Cyclone isn't worth using unless you're popping it off at 300TP. Stacking DEX gear for Evisceration vs something like VIT improves the ws damage. Everything else should be based on what job abilities and food and other buffs you have at the time. It wouldn't really be that difficult to scale.

That said, it would be nice if SE could balance weaponskills across jobs. Then Dark Knights wouldn't end up using Great Axe for the first 50+ levels, Thieves wouldn't end up using Sword or H2H for the first 32-34 levels, Dancer wouldn't end up using Sword or H2H for the first 50+ levels, etc.

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This could also be addressed from balancing the effectiveness of ws's all around.

[Byrth]

Weaponskill Modifiers and job abilities and other buffs would be my answer. Steel Cyclone isn't worth using unless you're popping it off at 300TP. Stacking DEX gear for Evisceration vs something like VIT improves the ws damage. Everything else should be based on what job abilities and food and other buffs you have at the time. It wouldn't really be that difficult to scale.

You don't understand how weaponskill damage is calculated, so here's the page:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ca...n_Skill_Damage

Try to understand why the weaponskills I cited are difficult to reconcile with your idea of all weaponskills remaining useful throughout the entire game.

[kingfury]

/sigh Nah Byrth, after 7+years of playing the game, I understand the current ws formula's just fine ^^

I'm speaking in terms of a "reworked/modified" version of all ws's, so everything that we know currently would be /tossed out of the window should the Devs decide to alter the way things are done ws wide. I'm speaking "theoretically" as to what I personally would like ws's efficiency to based on.

At low lvls there's no means to possibly stack the same amount of stat WS Modifiers as you do at high lvls and it would hold true throughout a players growth. Once at a high lvl and maxed combat skill lvls, the rest would be up to the players to stack the appropriate mods to see the best results from their ws's.

[Greatguardian]

Speaking as someone who's pretty much apathetic about Full Break, I can safely say that, on these forums, speaking "theoretically" seems to equate to "completely ignoring the fundamental mechanics of the game because it's easier that way".

Easier for us, near impossible for an extremely limited, underfunded Dev team.

[TybudX]

At low lvls there's no means to possibly stack the same amount of stat WS Modifiers as you do at high lvls

This is why break WSs are good at low levels.

Once at a high lvl and maxed combat skill lvls, the rest would be up to the players to stack the appropriate mods to see the best results from their ws's.

We, and I use the term we loosely, already do this right now. If SE were to make all the WSs balanced in terms of WSC and fTP, it would make the added effects on break WSs the only thing that mattered. So instead of every WAR spamming Ukko's or RR they would all be spamming Armor Break or Full Break.

[kingfury]

Speaking as someone who's pretty much apathetic about Full Break, I can safely say that, on these forums, speaking "theoretically" seems to equate to "completely ignoring the fundamental mechanics of the game because it's easier that way".
Easier for us, near impossible for an extremely limited, underfunded Dev team.

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^^ True Strike Greatguardian

It's no different than what science fiction does for inventors and scientist. Thinking outside of what's currently possible is extremely hard to do for those that have been bound by laws and formulas for most of their careers, but those uninhibited by such boundaries are the ones that truly push those minds to break through what's currently possible.

Sometimes it's necessary to invite such thinking to "change" the perception of what can and can't be done. I very seriously doubt the Dev Team is afraid of change at this point in FFXI's life after a complete renaissance of changes all throughout these past years. Things we as lvl 75 players would have never have dreamed possible in this game has become common place thanks to the very idea of "ignoring the fundamental mechanics of the game" to achieve new and radical plateaus for us to experience. Hell, if someone would have told you at lvl 75 back in the day that you would soon be able to dish out ws damage ranging from 4-10k+ even if only within a special battlefield area, you would have called them a fruit bat and /laughed in their face lol. But look at us now.

Like with the "Tier II 2hrs" thread here on these boards, the Devs welcomed radical thinking on the topic, and they're well aware that once they receive such feedback they can scale back as needed. The point is, once you have those radical ideas on the table that are completely outside of what's considered the norm or possible, you now have the most perfect clay to mold with to sculpt something absolutely original from it.

I'm aware it's hard to digest suggested change based on opinion, but hey, that's why they made these boards right? ^^

[TybudX]

Hell, if someone would have told you at lvl 75 back in the day that you would soon be able to dish out ws damage ranging from 4-10k+ even in a special battlefield area, you would have called them a fruit bat and /laughed in their face lol.

Or we could have used a 5th grade math formula to see that it was easily possible. And for the record, you aren't trying to change perception, you are trying to make a different game than the one we are playing. I see from some of your most recent posts that you still don't have any understanding of game mechanics. I suggested weeks ago that you spend 2 or 3 hours learning them so you would know how certain things were applied in game. I'm sure you've spent more than 3 hours coming up with arguments as to why you are a creative genius despite not having actually come up with anything to support your ideas. How about now, instead of continuing to sound foolish, you take a night off, go check over the wiki to see what the formulas do, and come up with something creative and reasonable that actually makes sense. All we've seen so far is a half baked idea to give WAR JAs that DNC already has (and doesn't use). It would be obvious to you why it was a bad idea if you knew the formulas. So again, in the interest of being able to judge for yourself why we think this thread is moronic, go. It will save you time in the end.