Paladin: Possibilities

[Akujima]

I'm going to have to agree with you, that post is....an embarrassment. The first paragraph made me facepalm so hard I nearly died, Akujima.

Whatever man. I was on your side, but now you can face-off against the rest of those who will dish out never-ending bitter arguments against you. It's clear to see that all this mathematical BS that's stuck between everyone's ears has blinded them from actually having fun with a video game.

I can give a rat's @$$ about mathematics, because stuff like that is just childs-play. What is actually going to make a video game GOOD is content that can appeal to everyone, and not just to sour-puss mathematicians whom fight amongst one another, about how much work it will take to rehash a system that has failed in the first place.

Economics involves more than just numbers, and if people aren't going to play the game because it doesn't feel like a typical MMORPG, nor does it resemble much of the other Final Fantasy series... SE will lose money. Simple as that.

And if that first paragraph doesn't make sense to you, just don't blame me for your inability to comprehend the concepts in which I'm trying to explain.

@GG

I can guarantee other forums would understand what I'm talking about, when I say "It makes sense for NINJA's to THROW".

[Zyeriis]

Whatever man. I was on your side, but now you can face-off against the rest of those who will dish out never-ending bitter arguments against you. It's clear to see that all this mathematical BS that's stuck between everyone's ears has blinded them from actually having fun with a video game.

I can give a rat's @$$ about mathematics, because stuff like that is just childs-play. What is actually going to make a video game GOOD is content that can appeal to everyone, and not just to sour-puss mathematicians whom fight amongst one another, about how much work it will take to rehash a system that has failed in the first place.

Economics involves more than just numbers, and if people aren't going to play the game because it doesn't feel like a typical MMORPG, nor does it resemble much of the other Final Fantasy series... SE will lose money. Simple as that.

And if that first paragraph doesn't make sense to you, just don't blame me for your inability to comprehend the concepts in which I'm trying to explain.

@GG

I can guarantee other forums would understand what I'm talking about, when I say "It makes sense for NINJA's to THROW".

:/ You really don't see what's wrong with that post you made?

All or most of your posts just consist of a simple formula: You're wrong. This is how you are wrong. I'm right. This is how I'm right.

That's generally what a debate is (which isn't what he was doing).

[Akujima]

That's generally what a debate is (which isn't what he was doing).

I fail to see how its possible to debate a creative idea. Unless that idea is totally impossible (such as that 3 pronged impossible shape or whatever).

All he keeps saying is that "Adjusting current ratio's regarding fSTR and VIT" or whatever "takes too much work". Something that takes "too much work" implies laziness, not impossibility.

[Greatguardian]

Despite the fact that I have presented my own opinions on how to improve Paladin, however constructive you deem them to be, that does not mean that I am required to present an alternative every time I disagree with something you present.

When you present a thesis, it is your job to defend it. It is not the critic's job to offer alternative solutions if you have a poorly designed thesis, and/or a thesis which leaves itself open to criticism. This is your thread, in which you presented a thesis for adjusting FFXI in regards to Paladin. When you presented this thesis, of course you left it open to criticism if others are able to point out flaws within it.

For example, I believe that your understanding of the nature behind Paladin's disrepute in the FFXI community is flawed. Enmity is not a real concern for Paladin since it is just as easy for them to cap TE as it is every other job in the game. Even if Paladin had a CE cap of 11,000, it would not be beneficial for a non-Ochain Paladin to be tanking mobs as they would simply take more damage than a Monk tank (and eliminate the offensive boost Counter gives). Paladin is deemed useless because there exist jobs in the game that can do Paladin's job with equal or greater proficiency while contributing more to the group.

Similarly, I believe, in general, that any method which involves the adjustment of fundamental game mechanics in order to make the game suit a particular job is flawed. Adjusting fStr and pDif/cRatio formulas will impact every single job in the game, both offensively and defensively. That is no longer a Paladin-specific buff, but rather the adjustment of the entire game simply to appeal to players who wish to play Paladin a certain way. I do not feel that this is either wise or within the realm of reasonable feasibility.

You can call me a troll all you like. You can claim that I'm being counter-productive by "shooting down everyone's ideas". But what sort of value does an idea have if the OP cannot defend their thesis? Welcome to the real world. Instead of freaking out because I'm telling you why you're wrong, fix the flaws with your thesis and then tell me why you're right.

Edit: @Akujima, I never said adjusting pDif was too much work. I said it was absolutely, utterly, completely, 110% bloody freaking ridiculous to change the rules of the game ten years into its development simply because some people want to play a different game. I do not care what "Ninjas do", what "Other RPGs do", or what "An MMORPG is supposed to be". This is what Final Fantasy XI is, and if you don't like it you are welcome to find a game which you would enjoy. No one is forcing you to play it. If you would prefer a game where Ninja use Shuriken and Bloodtanking matters, you are welcome to find a game that has such things.

[Pharaun]

@ Akujima, What GG and many other people are trying to tell you is that because of the basic mechanics behind the game, you know the mathy stuff that you don't like, most of your "creative ideas" would be impossible to make happen with out rewriting large portions of the games core code. The FFXI team just doesn't have the man power to do such things. It isn't laziness on their part because the sheer amount of man hours that it would take makes it a practical impossibility, especially when you consider all the other things that they are trying to do with the game.

[Chocobits]

I think the only possibility for PLD is that SE is hoping if they continue to neglect it, people will forget the job exists so they can quietly phase it out. The complete and utter lack of response to any of the multitude of "Please fix it" or "Here's an idea to fix it" or "do you think it will stop sucking" threads pretty much shows their stance on PLD.

One day we will log in and wonder why there's a blank spot at the bottom pair of jobs in our list and scratch our heads wondering where it went. SE almost seems embarrassed of PLD's existence.

Devs if you do read or have been reading, the job came unbalanced a long time ago, and has been falling out of favor since before Abyssea. It is non-existent for all practical purposes, and I know you can and have pulled up the statistics to show that. You seem to think that whenever people stop doing/using something it's because nobody likes it anymore, instead of seriously examining the reasons why they fall into disuse; because you made them suck.

(Not a PLD btw, but it would have been nice to level it someday)

[TybudX]

Oh wow, I never saw that video. It's cool and all, but WAR can do the same thing right now with Retaliation.

@Akujima
You are missing the point, much like another poster who seemed to think one of his horrible ideas was somehow being mired down by math and logic and everybody else's inability to "think outside the box". The math in this game is very simple. Adjusting the formulas won't change PLDs position within the game, it will just narrow or widen the gap, as it were. Draw a dot on a balloon. That's PLD. If you stretch the balloon the dot stays in the same place. If you deflate the balloon it stays in the same place. It's only the other job's positions relative to PLD that change.

This isn't some lazy scripting that a programmer did. It's part of nature. You can't make numbers work outside of absolutes without going into theoretical math. It's the laws of physics that are limiting game design, not our box. You want a fix to PLD? I've seen several good ideas in this thread, or at least good starts. They weren't your ideas. You are attacking people with reasonable ideas not because they don't want to fix PLD (they have offered suggestions), but because they have told you your suggestions aren't feasible within the limits of the game's design. Now you are attacking somebody else who used to be 'on your side' because he called you out on your ranting.

Stop. Just stop. You are making a fool of yourself.

edit - obvious limitation based on mobs thast can be pulled

[Mrbeansman]

I can give a rat's @$$ about mathematics, because stuff like that is just childs-play. What is actually going to make a video game GOOD is content that can appeal to everyone, and not just to sour-puss mathematicians whom fight amongst one another, about how much work it will take to rehash a system that has failed in the first place.

You make a great poster child for the saddest part of the FFXI fanbase. This game works on mathematical algorithms people like you need to learn that you can not suggest something and say fuck math because its that math that makes the game tick.

[Byrth]

Oh wow, I never saw that video. It's cool and all, but WAR can do the same thing right now with Retaliation.

<_______< I don't know about your WAR, but my WAR wouldn't do that against Bukhis and survive on one cure a minute, not getting cruor buffs dispelled or anything. That was like 20 bats and continuous light skillchains.

[Greatguardian]

The WAR still takes full damage when they Retaliate, but I'm assuming they just brainfarted and assumed it worked like Counterstance and stacked with it or something.