Were Emps supposed to be this easy?

[Runespider]

•[dev1003]Abyssea Adjustments
The upcoming major version update will see the following adjustments made to Abyssea:
•New Ways to Obtain Empyrean Upgrade Items
•Empyrean +1 seals will be made obtainable via new battlefields.
•Empyrean +2 items will be made obtainable from notorious monsters in additional Abyssea areas as follows:

•Heroes of Abyssea area items will also appear in Scars of Abyssea.
•Scars of Abyssea area items will also appear in Vision of Abyssea.

Having re-reasd, I guess this will add some difficulty. People will not only be popping chloris for emps now but +2!

[Alkimi]

I'd imagine the opposite. People struggle to get help for Visions NMs because there's nothing in it for them but the chance of +2 items will make it more worth their while.

[Atomic_Skull]

I proved that they did say they were making relics easier to obtain. I never said anything about Mythics. I only proved you wrong in claiming that they never said they were making relics easier. Good job trying to put words in my mouth.

How exactly did you prove this?

[Miera]

Unless you are sitting on your butt and having your LS build you every Emperyean weapon without you liften a finger, I'd say, Yea, that is easy...

But no, Not all are easy, H2H and Polearm and great Axe/ Dagger are a pain in the butt. Not to kill though, the KI farms are the killers.... Oh Glavoid, Glavoid, glavoid... Why does Tahrongi Canyon has to suck so bad.

Apademak, is a major killer, literally..

[Mordanthos]

grind money for relics solo, grind NMs for emp weapon solo, what's the difference? both takes a lot of time. and the weapon which requires more time should be on top.

here's a little relic time calculation:
mandau (yeah like to use it because i have experience in building it)



1 byne bills * 10400 *6000 gil = 62400000gil = 62,4M gil
o.bronzepiece * 1400 * 13000gil = 18200000 = 18,2M gil
t. whiteshell * 6100 *11000gil = 67100000 = 67,1M gil
sum = 147,7M gil
now calculating with a profit of 125k gil per hour (farming/crafting, BCNMs and other high gil rewarded events excluded)
= 147700000 gil / 125000 gil/h = 1181,6 hours just for the currencys.now u still need attestion & fragment, this will add approx another 20 hours,depending on drop rate, makes 1201,6 hours = 3,29 years if u craft 24/7 for 125k profit per hour.
due to the fact that u are sometimes able to get more or less due to ah economy this will be an average (did it with cooking 100+8) and that u can't play 24/7 for 3,29 years, this is a good estimated time for a non dynamis running relic hunter.that's for stage 75
75 stage +1 dmg = 4h (~50 kill shots per hour)
75 stage +2 dmg = 4h (~50 kill shots per hour)
75 stage +3 dmg = 6h (~50 kill shots per hour)
80 stage = 6h (~50 kill shots per hour)
85 stage = 8h (~50 kill shots per hour)
90 stage = 15h (3h hours per dynamis run)

summing the relic = 1244,6 hours > 3,4 years

now twashtar:

nocuous weapon *3 = 9h (1-6h repop took the average)
black triple stars *3 = 5h (assuming 2 nights no pop)
serra * 3 = 12h (1-6h repop took the middle)
bugbear strongman *4 = 24 hours (repop time of 1-10h)
la velue * 4 = 8h (stated 1 hour no max repop time known, so gave it 2hours)
hovering hotpot *4 = 20h (average of 2-3h stated on wiki, but i gave it 5hours )
yacumama *6 = 24h (gave u 4 hours per kill )
feuerunke *6 = 24h (gave u another 4 hours per kill )
tammuz *8 = 32h (another 4 hours per kill )
now u are at 75 stage
level 80 stage:
glavoid = 6,8h max + 1h + 30 min(for 1 pop set, shouting, killing) = 8,3hours per kill * 34 kills (used 1,5 shells drop average per kill) = 282,2h (if u solo all the KI's)
- azde 15 min repop 33% chance for KI (15 min killtime, wiki dnc solo) = 90 min > 1,5h per ki
- alectryon forced pop 3 min ??? repop, 33% KI drop rate, 30 min killtime = 99 min > 1,65h per ki
- muscaliet forced pop 3 min ??? repop, 33% KI drop rate, 30 min killtime = 99 min > 1,65h per ki
- minhocao respawn 10-30 min (taking 20 min average), 30% KI drop rate, 20 min kill time (dnc post on wiki states 5 min)= 120 min > 2h

now lets sum it all
9+5+12+24+8+20+24+24+32+282,2 = 440,2 hours for level 80 stage (yep u are already 1 stage above mandau's level)

now stage 85:
itzpapalotl 7 hours + 1 hour + 0,5h (KI farming, shouting, kill) * 34 kills (again 1,5 per pop) = 292,4h
granite borer , forced pop , 11% KI droprate, 20 min to kill = 200 min > 3,3h (to get 1 KI)
blazing eruca , forced pop , 22% KI droprate, 20 min to kill = 100 min > 1,6h (to get 1 KI)
tunga , 15min repop, 48% KI droprate, 30 min to kill = 45min * 3 kills = 135 min > 2,2h (to get 1 KI)

now stage 90:
orthrus: 1h to kill (took whm + nin duo of wiki) + 1h for KI * = 100h
- amarok forced pop 3 min repop forced spawn, 50% KI droprate, 30 min to kill = 60 min > 1h (to get 1 KI)

now lets sum it all up
440,2h (stage 80) + 292,2h (stage 85) + 100h (stage 90) = 832,4 hours = 2,28 years.

now u have the proof that relic takes much more time.

(and it was nice preparation for math exam )

Hmm, this is pretty accurate however you forgot to factor in one thing to make this argument more accurate. You forgot to mention that all that time required in getting the KI and Items from the bosses in Abyssea also means you'll have to have the Traverser Stones to do so. What happens when you run out of stones? You get 3 stones per day which is only equal to 90 minutes. If you factor in the fact that you have only 3 stones a day, the time spent on aquiring the Emp weapons will equal out to the time required to get the relic.

And also if u just dont do it for a couple days to get some Traverser Stones in stock, then you will have to add that amount of time waiting as time invested in obtaining the weapon. If you wait for 3 days to get 9 stones for a run or two, u have to add that time waited as 72 hours towards the time required to obtain the weapon.

[Byrth]

Hmm, this is pretty accurate however you forgot to factor in one thing to make this argument more accurate. You forgot to mention that all that time required in getting the KI and Items from the bosses in Abyssea also means you'll have to have the Traverser Stones to do so. What happens when you run out of stones? You get 3 stones per day which is only equal to 90 minutes. If you factor in the fact that you are have only 3 stones a day, the time spent on aquiring the Emp weapons will equal out to the time required to get the relic.

Not trying to nitpick, but 3 stones * 48 minutes per stone (if you're assuming all celerities, assume all sojourns) gives you 144 minutes in Abyssea per day even assuming you don't accidentally get time chests.

[Mordanthos]

Not trying to nitpick, but 3 stones * 48 minutes per stone (if you're assuming all celerities, assume all sojourns) gives you 144 minutes in Abyssea per day even assuming you don't accidentally get time chests.

Yes indeed you are correct. But even then, the times capped 120 when you "buy in" so even then youd still have to factor in 120 a day. and according to his big mathematical time log, 120 min isnt enough time to barely get a couple items towards the 50 u need till ur waiting for a new day of 120. And even more so, in terms of soloing, 120 min isnt even enough time to farm a single KI, this is according to his time math.

Id also like to note that his math is pretty wierd in terms of how many years it takes. That relic weapon, at 1,244.6 hours, is not 3.4 years, thats only 51 Days, if u take 1,244.6 Hours devided by 24 Hours per day, it = 51 days, and the Emp weapon at 832 Hours, is like 34 days, so im not sure where this 3.4 years and 2.28 Years thing is coming from.

We are talking a difference of a measly 17 days, its not that much of a difference in terms of "time".

If you factor in the amount of time waiting for refreshed stocks of Traverser Stones and only getting a single KI a day when it requires 3-4 KI to pop the Nm you need for 1-2 Items out of 50, thats already at a minimum of 75-100 days to complete if its 2 drops per kill, and 150-200 days if its 1 drop per kill towards the first 50 items, and don't forget there is another 50 items and 75 items after this, which is already WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY over the 51 days of Relic Completion, it actually would take longer to do a solo Emp Weapon ONLY, and Only, if you always had 0 stones everyday. But also keep in mind, you just can't Solo it anyways, its going to require some sort of Dispel or status removal and heals no matter how good a ninja you are. So now you have to factor in the hours of wasted time shouting in town looking for help, or waiting for your friends that have lives outside of FFXI. In the long run, We make Emp weapons "look" easy, but according to this mathematical table, by adding the above factors, it would probably take longer to do the Emp weapon than it would the Relic in terms of Soloing by a long shot.

[Mordanthos]

Now to make the above argument more fair, i have to take sides with both parties here, in terms that Emp weapons take longer, and relic weapons take longer. Lets change the perspective to Relics here for a moment.

You always compare the time to relics with Gil, and only gil, u always are claiming that it takes so long to get the gil to buy the currency. But the problem is, you dont have to buy the currency. So to make it fair, i will even the odds here.

What if you didnt buy it, you farmed it. Now what we have here is the fact that you only have limited time in Dynamis once a week. So now u have to calculate on average how many items you get for that week, and then add all those days andhours of not being able to go into Dynamis till the next week, adding to the total time it takes to get the currency in dynamis. What is longer? Well in terms of having to wait a week to get inside Dynamis to try again for more Currency, then most likely Relic weapon, but in terms of buying currency, the Emp weapon solo would take longer.