Thief Job Ability Synergy: This is not 2005

[Arcon]

This is really reaching. Accomplorator, Sneak/Trick attack aren't controlling the flow of any party.

They are. The fact that currently (especially inside Abyssea) the flow of a battle is so chaotic (mainly due to flaws within the enmity system) changes nothing in that regard. The capabilities are there.

The only one that applies to your second grouping is Treasure Hunter. Come on. Really? You are using gilfinder, steal and mug to argue that THF is a support job? Seriously?

Yes, because those are supporting abilities. How else would you classify them?

Ok I'll bite. Gilfinder does not work in parties, only solo (even thought we were designed not to solo lol). Steal, despoil and mug only steal (useless) things and give them to you, not your party.

I didn't know about Gilfinder being solo only, and to be honest I'm not quite sure I should believe it. I'll have to test it myself later. Regardless, those abilities can hardly be classified in any other way. On an interesting (although probably unintended) note, Steal, Despoil and Mug all give some enmity and can be used as such. They're also nice claiming tools, especially Mug if your inventory is full, which actually would qualify as supporting the party.

Conspirator was just added, but they just had to put that "Won't work on the monster's current enmity target" extra Thief fail limitation on it before they gave it to us.

Aurasteal is also a pretty big stretch to be listed as a support ability. But I could see someone perceiving a lame 5 minute recast dispel (that for some strange reason was attached to steal) being a "support ability" in some sense.

Aside from the fact that it is no longer very relevant, Feint is pretty good.

I just can't see where you are getting the idea that Thief is a support job from? Or why you are so against the damage that we do?

I get the idea from the things you just listed, and from what I said before.

Think about what you are saying. By this definition Warior is a support job as well.

As I said in the post you quoted yourself, it's not just "damage dealer" or "not damage dealer", but various shades of gray. It's also the reason why some heavy damage dealers aren't the same as others. Not one job was designed to be purely damage dealer, with nothing else. WAR has Defender, MNK has Dodge and Counter, DRG has healing capabilities, SAM has Seigan/Third Eye, DRK has Dread Spikes, and so on. The question is simply where do we draw the line?

THF can barely deal comparable damage inside Abyssea, and there they still have a huge boost. Even in current outside-Abyssea content, THF performs subpar when compared to actual damage dealers. Imagine what it would be like on Lv90+ content without Atma and Cruor buffs.

Edit: I'm going to put this in here because it needs pointing out. Damage is the yard stick by which the utility of a melee class is measured. It seems to be a prerequisit. Damage 1st, utility second. You can see this happening with many jobs.

Sadly, this is often true. Especially lately, the strategic value of certain jobs and tactics is discarded in favor of brute force, because it works. It didn't use to, and I hope that will change again. On Byakko, you couldn't just throw everything you had on it and hope to survive. Well, you could, but wouldn't lead anywhere. These days you can. Will it stay that way? I don't know, but I certainly hope not. This is where it all becomes a matter of opinion again. I was very happy playing FFXI the way it was, and I don't see a reason to change it.