Were Emps supposed to be this easy?

[Alukat]

grind money for relics solo, grind NMs for emp weapon solo, what's the difference? both takes a lot of time. and the weapon which requires more time should be on top.

here's a little relic time calculation:
mandau (yeah like to use it because i have experience in building it)

1 byne bills * 10400 *6000 gil = 62400000gil = 62,4M gil
o.bronzepiece * 1400 * 13000gil = 18200000 = 18,2M gil
t. whiteshell * 6100 *11000gil = 67100000 = 67,1M gil
sum = 147,7M gil
now calculating with a profit of 125k gil per hour (farming/crafting, BCNMs and other high gil rewarded events excluded)
= 147700000 gil / 125000 gil/h = 1181,6 hours just for the currencys.now u still need attestion & fragment, this will add approx another 20 hours,depending on drop rate, makes 1201,6 hours = 3,29 years if u craft 24/7 for 125k profit per hour.
due to the fact that u are sometimes able to get more or less due to ah economy this will be an average (did it with cooking 100+8) and that u can't play 24/7 for 3,29 years, this is a good estimated time for a non dynamis running relic hunter.that's for stage 75
75 stage +1 dmg = 4h (~50 kill shots per hour)
75 stage +2 dmg = 4h (~50 kill shots per hour)
75 stage +3 dmg = 6h (~50 kill shots per hour)
80 stage = 6h (~50 kill shots per hour)
85 stage = 8h (~50 kill shots per hour)
90 stage = 15h (3h hours per dynamis run)

summing the relic = 1244,6 hours > 3,4 years

now twashtar:

nocuous weapon *3 = 9h (1-6h repop took the average)
black triple stars *3 = 5h (assuming 2 nights no pop)
serra * 3 = 12h (1-6h repop took the middle)
bugbear strongman *4 = 24 hours (repop time of 1-10h)
la velue * 4 = 8h (stated 1 hour no max repop time known, so gave it 2hours)
hovering hotpot *4 = 20h (average of 2-3h stated on wiki, but i gave it 5hours )
yacumama *6 = 24h (gave u 4 hours per kill )
feuerunke *6 = 24h (gave u another 4 hours per kill )
tammuz *8 = 32h (another 4 hours per kill )
now u are at 75 stage
level 80 stage:
glavoid = 6,8h max + 1h + 30 min(for 1 pop set, shouting, killing) = 8,3hours per kill * 34 kills (used 1,5 shells drop average per kill) = 282,2h (if u solo all the KI's)
- azde 15 min repop 33% chance for KI (15 min killtime, wiki dnc solo) = 90 min > 1,5h per ki
- alectryon forced pop 3 min ??? repop, 33% KI drop rate, 30 min killtime = 99 min > 1,65h per ki
- muscaliet forced pop 3 min ??? repop, 33% KI drop rate, 30 min killtime = 99 min > 1,65h per ki
- minhocao respawn 10-30 min (taking 20 min average), 30% KI drop rate, 20 min kill time (dnc post on wiki states 5 min)= 120 min > 2h

now lets sum it all
9+5+12+24+8+20+24+24+32+282,2 = 440,2 hours for level 80 stage (yep u are already 1 stage above mandau's level)

now stage 85:
itzpapalotl 7 hours + 1 hour + 0,5h (KI farming, shouting, kill) * 34 kills (again 1,5 per pop) = 292,4h
granite borer , forced pop , 11% KI droprate, 20 min to kill = 200 min > 3,3h (to get 1 KI)
blazing eruca , forced pop , 22% KI droprate, 20 min to kill = 100 min > 1,6h (to get 1 KI)
tunga , 15min repop, 48% KI droprate, 30 min to kill = 45min * 3 kills = 135 min > 2,2h (to get 1 KI)

now stage 90:
orthrus: 1h to kill (took whm + nin duo of wiki) + 1h for KI * = 100h
- amarok forced pop 3 min repop forced spawn, 50% KI droprate, 30 min to kill = 60 min > 1h (to get 1 KI)

now lets sum it all up
440,2h (stage 80) + 292,2h (stage 85) + 100h (stage 90) = 832,4 hours = 2,28 years.

now u have the proof that relic takes much more time.

(and it was nice preparation for math exam )

[wish12oz]

Mythics take longer then relics, maybe you forgot that in your math, but try again.

Relics are outdated and no one but people with relics care, you should feel happy SE even bothered to let you upgrade it at all. If this was any other MMO, you would of been SOL and not given anything to make relics better.

EDIT: neither relic or emp is 99 yet too, so while relics get simple kill 20 mob trials to upgrade, emps will no doubt get 'collect 75 or 100 of this new item' trials, all the way up to 99.

EDIT2:: I currently put very little effort into making gil, but I have managed to make 3-6mil per day for a while now, I'll tell you how after the update/server merge if you like, but it's not up for discussion right now until it gets taken away by the merge. How long you think it would take me to buy a relic? A month and a half of what I'm doing would net me like 200mil, is that enough? and is that faster then soloing an empyrean up to 90? I think so~

[Alukat]

Mythics take longer then relics, maybe you forgot that in your math, but try again.

Relics are outdated and no one but people with relics care, you should feel happy SE even bothered to let you upgrade it at all. If this was any other MMO, you would of been SOL and not given anything to make relics better.

well that's the usual response when peeps have no arguments left lolol

[wish12oz]

well that's the usual response when peeps have no arguments left lolol

I left you another edit, and its the usual response cause it's the correct response. People with relics complain they don't have the best when they did more work then anyone else, when in fact they did not, mythic holders did way more work. And you just made the same tired response all relic holders say, because you got nothing left and know they're wrong.

[Alukat]

I left you another edit, and its the usual response cause it's the correct response. People with relics complain they don't have the best when they did more work then anyone else, when in fact they did not, mythic holders did way more work. And you just made the same tired response all relic holders say, because you got nothing left and know they're wrong.

well idm if myths are better.
and lol @ know we are wrong.
hmm would like to see you ripping of your ass for something and SE comes and says: "screw it, we make something easier than yours" if u tell me now u won't be upset in that case, then u are just a liar.

[Eeek]

In this thread, people never grow old and die. The mightiest warships never sink. The most powerful muscle car never rusts to dust. The day never turns to night, and night never becomes day.

Time is moot.

Nothing changes.

Relics will always be the best weapon for every job in every situation always.

[wish12oz]

hmm would like to see you ripping of your ass for something and SE comes and says: "screw it, we make something easier than yours" if u tell me now u won't be upset in that case, then u are just a liar.

I would not be upset, I would just go get it.

And after I went and got it I would be happy that I was then more awesome.

[Arcon]

I left you another edit, and its the usual response cause it's the correct response. People with relics complain they don't have the best when they did more work then anyone else, when in fact they did not, mythic holders did way more work. And you just made the same tired response all relic holders say, because you got nothing left and know they're wrong.

I'm not a relic holder and never even got close to one. I don't have a mythic or empyrean either. Technically speaking, I'm as neutral as I can be. That being said, I think the most effort should be the most rewarding. Does it matter if content is old or not? To some degree, yes. I do believe there should be exceptions.

Two reasons for that, first of all, the time involved in obtaining a relic is incomparable to anything else in the game. Not everyone can make 3M a day, even now, and that doesn't even matter. What matters is that people invested years back in the day. Where do we draw the line? Some people don't draw it, they simply believe everything old is outdated. Others are the other extreme (to some extent that includes SE), who want to reuse old gear, zones and even abilities. This is simply a matter of opinion, what do people prefer? The summer before last, I decided to camp King Arthro with a friend. 8 months and two Velocious Belts later, SE announced the level increase. As soon as the update arrived, I went to a data miner page and searched the page for "Haste+7%", because I knew I'd find something. The cursor immediately jumped to the Bullwhip Belt. And sure enough, my precious belt I "wasted" 8 months on is now in storage. Good or bad? While I was certainly annoyed with the result, I accepted it. And still I believe that shouldn't be the case with relics, because the effort of obtaining them is significantly more than 8 months.

Secondly, I don't even think relics are easier. People keep going on about how you can simply buy relics, but the exact same thing applies to empyreans (and mythics, although those require most actual work out of those three). You don't have to put in any work at all for empyrean weapons if you buy your way to Lv90 (and it is a lot cheaper than relics and mythics). Even if you compare doing Dynamis vs. doing Abyssea, Dynamis still requires more people and better strategy than Abyssea to do it efficiently. So in essence, relics can either be bought, just like empyreans, only for a lot more, or they can be farmed, same as empyreans, only for a lot longer.

Objectively speaking, relics take more effort to be obtained in either case. And some people already invested a nice chunk of their life into obtaining one. Whether or not you still wanna ignore it is only your opinion, but the relic holders' concern is certainly valid.

[Olor]

I left you another edit, and its the usual response cause it's the correct response. People with relics complain they don't have the best when they did more work then anyone else, when in fact they did not, mythic holders did way more work. And you just made the same tired response all relic holders say, because you got nothing left and know they're wrong.

Yeah, really I think it is sad that relic holders think that they should have the best weapon for ALL TIME. I mean, gimme a break, games change, new gear comes out, HECK EVEN THE MAX LEVEL HAS INCREASED. Sorry but that weapon you got 5 years ago SHOULDN'T be the best. I don't care how much work you put in five years ago.

I mean do you bring back your five year old computer to the store and demand that they scale down all the computers they are selling because it was "top of the line when you bought it"? Or do you demand they upgrade your five year old junker for free?

Who cares how much time you spent on it? I had to work for like 50 hours to buy my laptop in 2006 - and now it is a piece of crap. Woop de doo. If you want whatever gear you earn to remain static in the hierarchy of things forever, you should be playing single player games.

[Karbuncle]

SE has already mentioned they're aware relics have lost their "power". They're updating it in the future to not only buff relics, but also make them easier to obtain.

While the latter won't quell the tears of the Original Relic holders, Its likely that the Empyreans will also become progressively harder to upgrade to level 95, and 99, where balance will likely be achieved in terms o difficulty to obtain.

Also, Lol@ Empyreans are fine as 85 weapons lol. Yes, They're good at 85, but my level 99 you're going to lose a lot of damage by keeping it 85. Probably 10~30 base Damage depending on the weapon itself, or more. This will really hurt h2h more than anything I'd think though.