The Decline of FFXI: Forums, Gameplay and Nostalgia

[Karbuncle]

"Kings were the only way", Can you explain what they were the only way for? I really don't know what people mean.

When I retired from kings to lead an einherjar LS, I saw more king bodies doing that then camping nidhogg. Kings were/are fun for a time but when you don't have the time anymore, I admit, yes its time to move on. I'm just wondering why you asll didn't do einherjar? Really. That statment is not only not true but it sounds rediculous... Kings were not the only way. They hadnt been since 2004.. >.>

This game lost a lot of players over time, even back at 75 when Ground Kings were the only way. (Aside from Salvage/etc)

I did mention "and salvage/etc", I figured to most people that would mean "including Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar, General accepted end-game activities". Maybe i was expecting too much of my readers , I'm guilty of that. I guess i mentioned ground kings cause thats generally the loudest complaint on both sides. Either "Game sucks cause I cant bot/cockblock Armor from people anymore" or "Games great cause Camping kings is dead". So its generally the "loudest" complaint i here.

Einherjar was great, I won't deny that, But the Abjuration drop rate asbolutely awful outside of Odin. So unless you just wanted E-Body or a select other few decent Abjurations, You still had to do Kings. Especially for items like D.ring, and Black belt items (BB to a lesser extent, there were still KSNMs). I don't think I can put my finger on any ground abjurations outside of Heca Sub that would be worth worrying about in Normal Wing Einherjar though... So i guess thats a little moot.

Point being, Explanations above aside, The game has been in a steady decline since its peak of about 500,000 Subscribers some odd years ago, Right now they seem to be realizing what everyone already knows, people will complain/cry/whine/quit no matter what they do. So they're switching the game toward "Casual party friendly content anyone can enjoy" and away from the old ways, Which is a good thing in the end. Sure as i said, people will quit, but the game will be better off for those of us who enjoy it how it is and what its becoming.

No one Can blame you for quitting, when a game doesn't appeal to you anymore, Its the logical conclusion. however, If you really are quitting, I don't see why you put yourself through the extra stress of posting/reading these forums when they won't matter to you anymore. :X It seems like unnecessary stress.

[Anewie]

I did mention "and salvage/etc", I figured to most people that would mean "including Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar, General accepted end-game activities". Maybe i was expecting too much of my readers , I'm guilty of that. I guess i mentioned ground kings cause thats generally the loudest complaint on both sides. Either "Game sucks cause I cant bot/cockblock Armor from people anymore" or "Games great cause Camping kings is dead". So its generally the "loudest" complaint i here.

Einherjar was great, I won't deny that, But the Abjuration drop rate asbolutely awful outside of Odin. So unless you just wanted E-Body or a select other few decent Abjurations, You still had to do Kings. Especially for items like D.ring, and Black belt items (BB to a lesser extent, there were still KSNMs). I don't think I can put my finger on any ground abjurations outside of Heca Sub that would be worth worrying about in Normal Wing Einherjar though... So i guess thats a little moot.

Point being, Explanations above aside, The game has been in a steady decline since its peak of about 500,000 Subscribers some odd years ago, Right now they seem to be realizing what everyone already knows, people will complain/cry/whine/quit no matter what they do. So they're switching the game toward "Casual party friendly content anyone can enjoy" and away from the old ways, Which is a good thing in the end. Sure as i said, people will quit, but the game will be better off for those of us who enjoy it how it is and what its becoming.

No one Can blame you for quitting, when a game doesn't appeal to you anymore, Its the logical conclusion. however, If you really are quitting, I don't see why you put yourself through the extra stress of posting/reading these forums when they won't matter to you anymore. :X It seems like unnecessary stress.

Well, you see. I guess thats the difference between you me as players and people.

Video games and video game forums don't stress me out. If a video game or a forum stresses you out, that's pretty extreme. I have fun in video games or i quit. I do things that appeal to me. I don't sit around crying or complaining about things to fit my interests only and welcome the next guy getting his stuff and moving along.

[Karbuncle]

Well, you see. I guess thats the difference between you me as players and people.

Video games and video game forums don't stress me out. If a video game or a forum stresses you out, that's pretty extreme. I have fun in video games or i quit. I do things that appeal to me. I don't sit around crying or complaining about things to fit my interests only and welcome the next guy getting his stuff and moving along.

What? No, forums generally don't stress me out, Don't get me wrong, Everyone gets worked up sometimes however, its natural. you cannot say you've never been emotionally effect by something done in game, or on a forum. Because while its print, We're all real live people behind here.


But, Generally when i find someone on a board arguing with people over things, Especially when they seem to have an attitude over the entire thing, or are "Snappy" I assume they seem to be stressed over it. Or at the very least upset, which is usually a result from stress.

Also, You say you don't sit around crying/complaining about things to fit your interest, When , at least by my definition, arguing with people over why the game currently sucks or no longer appeals to you seems complainy to me :|. If i quit I think the first thing i'd want to do is move on with my life, not spend my days on a forum dedicated to said game. So i guess you're right, Thats the difference between me and you as a player and person.

Plus, I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose, but why do you type like i didn't say:

No one Can blame you for quitting, when a game doesn't appeal to you anymore, Its the logical conclusion.

I.E if the games not fun its okay to quit. Where your entire response seems to be geared toward you think I'm saying "Why did you quit? you should stay and complain on the forums more". When I'm not saying that at all, like in any way what so ever.

Again, Of course its completely logical to quite a game if you no longer enjoy it, thats incredibly logical and 1000 times better then the people who constantly complain how terrible the game is yet continue to play.

However, That doesn't seem to be whats going on here. you quit the game, yet you linger on these forums still. If you're interested in the development of this game simply because you may return one day, Thats understandable, but if you've planned on quitting for good, My original question applies still. Why bother arguing with people on the internet about a game you no longer play/enjoy/participate in?

Edit: I neglected to mention, You are of course entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to tell people why you left/quit. but you've succeeded in doing that for us, I Only ask why, after explaining to use why you quit, and why you feel the game no longer appeals to you, do you care what anyone on this game thinks anymore?

[Anewie]

What? No, forums generally don't stress me out, Don't get me wrong, Everyone gets worked up sometimes however, its natural. you cannot say you've never been emotionally effect by something done in game, or on a forum. Because while its print, We're all real live people behind here.


But, Generally when i find someone on a board arguing with people over things, Especially when they seem to have an attitude over the entire thing, or are "Snappy" I assume they seem to be stressed over it. Or at the very least upset, which is usually a result from stress.

Also, You say you don't sit around crying/complaining about things to fit your interest, When , at least by my definition, arguing with people over why the game currently sucks or no longer appeals to you seems complainy to me :|. If i quit I think the first thing i'd want to do is move on with my life, not spend my days on a forum dedicated to said game. So i guess you're right, Thats the difference between me and you as a player and person.

Plus, I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose, but why do you type like i didn't say:



I.E if the games not fun its okay to quit. Where your entire response seems to be geared toward you think I'm saying "Why did you quit? you should stay and complain on the forums more". When I'm not saying that at all, like in any way what so ever.

Again, Of course its completely logical to quite a game if you no longer enjoy it, thats incredibly logical and 1000 times better then the people who constantly complain how terrible the game is yet continue to play.

However, That doesn't seem to be whats going on here. you quit the game, yet you linger on these forums still. If you're interested in the development of this game simply because you may return one day, Thats understandable, but if you've planned on quitting for good, My original question applies still. Why bother arguing with people on the internet about a game you no longer play/enjoy/participate in?

I can go back and reread my posts and there no argument there. Im stating my opinion as regards to things posted. Who exactly am i arguing with? And what about? If you mean me coming back and correcting people stating BS is arguing, well, ok. I stated my opinion and I simply stated a fact in regards to kings.

They hadn't been the only way since 2004, and the player base is still declining. Those are facts. No argument in my posts. My opinions on the player base were stated when I said The heart is gone. That is an opinion. Just because I feel the need or want to correct the constant silly things stated about the past and present state of FFXI, doesn't mean I'm arguing.

An argument would be, myself not agreeing with other peoples opinions on things. I respect you and anyone else on your opinion with the current and past state of the game. However, if someone is going to say something like its a fact, when its not, theres nothing wrong with someone correcting them. Saying kings were the only way to get king gear and abyssea saved or revived the game, those are not opinions. Thats BS.

Maybe abyssea made the game more appealing for a specific person, ok. Even then, kings were not the only way. At least not after 2004. Whos arguing any of this? You? I'm not, lol.

[Olor]

The playerbase is still declining but I see a lot of people (myself included) coming back.

I would have never come back without the lure of Abyssea. My current annoyance would go away if I could just figure out a way to use Abyssea like everyone else (unfortunately it seems to be really hard for newer players to get in on Abyssea - when really they stand to benefit the most).

If this was still the same old game where someone like me could play for a year and a half without even reaching lvl 75, let alone getting any equipment worthwhile... then I would have never even considered coming back. I know I am not alone.

Heh, remembering how long I played for so little reward, puts my current annoyance in perspective. That said, it doesn't make it go away (unfortunately).

[Karbuncle]

I can go back and reread my posts and there no argument there. Im stating my opinion as regards to things posted. Who exactly am i arguing with? And what about? If you mean me coming back and correcting people stating BS is arguing, well, ok. I stated my opinion and I simply stated a fact in regards to kings.

They hadn't been the only way since 2004, and the player base is still declining. Those are facts. No argument in my posts. My opinions on the player base were stated when I said The heart is gone. That is an opinion. Just because I feel the need or want to correct the constant silly things stated about the past and present state of FFXI, doesn't mean I'm arguing.

An argument would be, myself not agreeing with other peoples opinions on things. I respect you and anyone else on your opinion with the current and past state of the game. However, if someone is going to say something like its a fact, when its not, theres nothing wrong with someone correcting them. Saying kings were the only way to get king gear and abyssea saved or revided the game, those are not opinions. Thats BS.

Maybe abyssea saved the game for a specific person, ok. Even then, kings were not the only way. At least not after 2004.

You're arguing with me On a side note, Read my Edit. I think you missed it. Plus, I thought i was the one arguing that The player base has been Declining since day 1? if we're both on the same side of the argument... then... wat?

Also, While i agree that "Stating things as fact", I remember this entire thing began because you stated your opinion that people left because of FFXIV as fact. Or at least it felt you said it with the same inflection as the guy you quoted who said they left because of kings.

The only fact either of us know is the game has been gaining and losing people since day one. Everything else is guess work. We don't know why they quit (FFXIV? or Maybe Abyssea?).

Then again You could have been purposefully making an example of how illogical it is to claim something so wild, In which case this is a misunderstanding. Either way, It does kind of feel like your posts seem to be gradually getting more... angry? I can't explain it, your inflections feel a bit different. I'm reading a bit more aggressiveness behind them.

Don't get all upset over this conversation :O its unnecessary stress!

[Anewie]

You're arguing with me On a side note, Read my Edit. I think you missed it. Plus, I thought i was the one arguing that The player base has been Declining since day 1? if we're both on the same side of the argument... then... wat?

Also, While i agree that "Stating things as fact", I remember this entire thing began because you stated your opinion that people left because of FFXIV as fact. Or at least it felt you said it with the same inflection as the guy you quoted who said they left because of kings.

The only fact either of us know is the game has been gaining and losing people since day one. Everything else is guess work. We don't know why they quit (FFXIV? or Maybe Abyssea?).

Then again You could have been purposefully making an example of how illogical it is to claim something so wild, In which case this is a misunderstanding. Either way, It does kind of feel like your posts seem to be gradually getting more... angry? I can't explain it, your inflections feel a bit different. I'm reading a bit more aggressiveness behind them.

Don't get all upset over this conversation :O its unnecessary stress!

Lolz, Okay. I'm not arguing with you. Moving on. Although I can't prove it as fact, im willing to bet a large portion of the mass quittings, not banning, happened right before ffxiv. I knew so many people who were like "FFXIV coming out. dead game is dead. Moving to rabanastra next week!" etc etc. The player base had always been in decline but I personally knew quite a few people who were in the mind set FFXI would be replaced by XIV and that was why they were quitting, then and there. Anyone who says the game is seeing a signifcant number of reactivations via abyssea. Needs a reality check. The second server merge in less than a year with abyssea related content taking a large portion of that time up, speaks for itself. Does it say abyssea killed FFXI? Course not. But it did anything but revive it. In fact, it more than likely caused more quittings. I'm just going by the server merge announcements. If the player base wasn't continuing to fall fast, why would they need a 2nd server merge so soon?
It's possible theyre just trying to reduce costs more but then you have an inflation issue.

Only time will tell if it keeps the player base playing longer and more dedicatedly than the original 75 endgame. Soon, ffxiv will be fixed and running accordingly, How many can bet people will bounce once that happens? I guess we'll see.

[Karbuncle]

Lolz, Okay. I'm not arguing with you. Moving on. Although I can't prove it as fact, im willing to bet a large portion of the mass quittings, not banning, happened right before ffxiv. I knew so many people who were like "FFXIV coming out. dead game is dead. Moving to rabanastra next week!" etc etc. The player base had always been in decline but I personally knew quite a few people who were in the mind set FFXI would be replaced by XIV and that was why they were quitting.

While true, I bet a lot of people came back after FFXIV Tanked. Just like some people are coming back now (who quit cause of abyssea... Lol?) because Abyssea is ending.

Maybe ;O

[Carth]

While true, I bet a lot of people came back after FFXIV Tanked. Just like some people are coming back now (who quit cause of abyssea... Lol?) because Abyssea is ending.

Maybe ;O

I can say straight from first-hand experience that I quit nearly a year ago because of FFXIV (which I played during the beta) and I wanted to play an all-new game with an all-new story, which is the focal point of any FF game for me. New gear and new gameplay updates are just icing on the cake. Despite this I was in an endgame LS that did all the old content except for Kings, but that pretty much fell apart right as FFXIV came out because the leader, as well as the officers on that linkshell left. This echos largely for the Fenrir Server in general as it was originally one of the most packed servers but now it's barely holding anyone (this is also because the server is locked due to server merge). Personally, I came back to FFXI not because FFXIV got slammed, but because I heard FFXI became more casual, which was essentially a game I really needed in order to juggle between my gaming and my college studies. A lot of people who deactivated their content IDs are reactivating them as well, though I can't say why without assumption.

As to the topic at hand... I don't really know where all this is going, but these "FFXI is dying" threads have popped up even during the WotG era, which also include these "I quit because X" posts. This thread in it's entirety is complaining about things that have already been complained about. However, for each "I quit" notice I've seen, I notice one, if not more returning/new player rolling into the game, especially these days where those type of threads clog up the front page on Alla.

Bottomline is, FFXI is not dead, and there is no need to call out for a revival.

[Akujima]

because Abyssea is ending.

...Maybe ;O

So rolling through alot of posts, I found some interesting things to note. Even though it seems that the conversation has gone everywhere, it's still quite interesting.

Myself like Anewie, have somewhat quit already. And by "somewhat" I mean, that the game made me lose so much interest, I'm considering weather or not to even bother waiting for what is after Abyssea.

@Karbuncle I would like to go back to your comment about Trick Attack for a moment and use that as an example for complex battle strategies. Yes, you are right, Trick Attack still could be used for tactics and strategies, but the importance of it, is so far dumb down to a point where the actual NEED to use it, is near pointless.

When the player base can have AND is given an excuse to be lazy, they WILL heed the opportunity to do so. We've seen this with Skillchains and Magic Bursts in the old days. And back when it was hard to get THF into an exp PT, because the general assumption was that THF did crap damage (which is complete bullocks) or that the other melee were too lazy to set up for SATA.

The same goes for shadows. In the past, having shadows up or down could have meant the difference between being KO'd or not. But now, the importance on having those shadows up, has been toned down so far, that it requires little to no skill level (of the player) or focus to even bother with.

And on another note.

You're also forgetting about people who quit FFXI because after they came back from the mess that is XIV, they didn't like the direction XI took, because they enjoyed how FFXI was before. I can name 10~15 people that I knew in game for a LOOOONG time (I would even chat with them in ventrillo sometimes) who very much enjoyed Pre-Endgame 75. They never complained about not having certain pieces of gear, or cried constantly about how it was so hard to do something.

No. They enjoyed the difficulty level of the game, and they enjoyed that when they DID obtain an epic piece of gear, it made it all the more worthwhile in having it. They enjoyed how "Epic" certain things were, and the kindergarten that is now Abyssea, was a spit in their face. Why? Because "The Heart" that Anewie and I speak of, was torn out from their game. What was that "Heart"?

It was the "Epicness" in achieving something, and actually doing things that felt worthwhile. But now when I mindlessly grind on Magian trials, or farm some fairly simple NM's for the best gear, that sense of "Epicness" is not there anymore. And yes, this IS the reason why alot of people quit..