Pld Emnity/hate distribution chages?

[Raesvelg]

I still don't see how they would do that.

Either give PLD some form of -damage taken ability, or simply adjust the way defense works against damage. Right now, stacking defense has very limited utility after a certain level, when you get right down to it. Adjust it so that having a substantial defense stat (and probably giving PLD more Def Bonus traits) makes it so that the new monsters of endgame don't utterly destroy you, and you'd give PLD a reason to be played again.

It's possible, but you'd have to do some fairly serious work to make it worth taking PLD on a regular basis again unless you give PLD the ability to gain and hold hate in excess of any other job in the game.

[Kirth]

First of all, it's great to see positive posts and constructive ideas being thrown around. PLD definitely needs an overhaul in the coming major updates.

Thinks I'd like to see:
- A damage mitigation trait, starting from Level10 and increasing much like the Defense Bonus trait does. It should reduce damage (both magical and physical) by a percentage. This wouldn't require the devs to rework defense or Vitality stats (if they haven't done it by now, I doubt they ever will).

- A+ rank in defensive skills like Parry and Evasion. If Paladins are described as "masters of defense", they should have higher defensive combat skill ratings. This would allow more damage mitigation from physical attacks.

- Increased damage dealt from single handed weapons. Currently, MNKs, SAMs, NINs and WARs tank. They tank because they're pushing DPS numbers like never before. They're going to have hate. An increase in damage dealt by Paladins should work in synergy with other proposed updates and changes, and not knock current DDs off their pedestals, but why put a Paladin in a group if they're not contributing respectable DPS to fights when another class can both out-DPS and out-tank them?

- Improved shield damage mitigation and block rate. Again, more mitigation from incoming damage. If they're not going to out-DPS DD classes, PLD should be most adept at survivability and damage reduction.

- Reduced DD survivability. If /NIN blink tanking really is falling by the wayside, let's nerf Utsusemi for /NIN, while maintaining its full strength for NIN main, thus reducing incentive for DD jobs to sub it and maintaining NINs viable tanking role.

- Increase the hate cap, give Paladin a native 'Provoke'. Something that not only pushes VE/CE values, but also, for a few seconds, forces the mob to focus on the PLD only, despite hate levels.

[Alturen]

Great to see all kinds of constructive ideas to bring Paladins forward. I'm thankful for it being my primary job as I'm a career paladin that is on the verge of cancelling my subscription once again. The current direction the game is going in leans towards quick fights, high damage, DD's that can tank with incredible abilities and the like.

If anything, the Paladins could use a complete overhaul in terms of 'damage mitigation'.

Throw it out the window and convert us to Holy Knights. Damage mitigation is a thing of the past and we need to move forward with that in mind. We are in an age where it doesn't matter how much damage we mitigate, rather, how much damage we deal to make the fight as short as possible.

I'm looking forward to any sort of change for Paladins, as I can't do much with sub samurai at this point for my Great Sword. It's basically brought me next to nowhere near the damage output of even the lightest of DD classes. I'm a rather decent hybrid and I'd like to think that I did well in trying to adapt, but my subscription's pretty much on its way of being permanently cancelled with my spouse who is a career white mage.

Thank you again, and I look forward to seeing the discussion progress.

Great ideas, keep 'em coming!

-Alt

[rog]

I understand it can work as mnk/sam. But let see a MNK again NM like Rani. Im pretty sure you agree with me that MNK/NIN will outperform MNK/SAM in term of "taking less damage as possible".

There is some interesting combination out there. But up to now I have completed all abyssea zone and Cacturae and all tanks was using shadows. I doupt, but I can be wrong, that it could run as smooth if no one in the entire alliance was using shadows.

MNK/NIN and NIN/WAR tank NM in Abyssea. Other possibilities exist both they are the most efficient.

The goal isn't to take the least amount of damage though. The goal is to do the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. /nin is useless for such a goal. A curebot whm with infinite mp is all the defense that is needed in almost all cases.

I don't know how to fix pld, but increasing their enmity generation, or damage mitigation is definitely not the way. Neither of those things are important right now. If they were, we wouldn't see nins that don't bother casting utsu, because it's a waste of time, or dds that don't even have a macro for third eye, let alone seigan. A single whm can easily keep just about anyone alive, so it doesn't make much sense to waste a party slot on a job dedicated to taking less damage.

[Kirth]

The goal isn't to take the least amount of damage though. The goal is to do the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. /nin is useless for such a goal. A curebot whm with infinite mp is all the defense that is needed in almost all cases.

I don't know how to fix pld, but increasing their enmity generation, or damage mitigation is definitely not the way. Neither of those things are important right now. If they were, we wouldn't see nins that don't bother casting utsu, because it's a waste of time, or dds that don't even have a macro for third eye, let alone seigan. A single whm can easily keep just about anyone alive, so it doesn't make much sense to waste a party slot on a job dedicated to taking less damage.

If the rest of FFXI's life is spent in Abyssea, then yeah, this is the case. However, if new content is going to take place outside of Abyssea's environments and gameplay systems, then yeah, we'll need to define tank roles a lot better. The solution to this issue wouldn't come from just increasing mitigation, hate or damage output. It's going to take a lot of different changes to secure PLDs future in-game.

[rog]

If the rest of FFXI's life is spent in Abyssea, then yeah, this is the case. However, if new content is going to take place outside of Abyssea's environments and gameplay systems, then yeah, we'll need to define tank roles a lot better. The solution to this issue wouldn't come from just increasing mitigation, hate or damage output. It's going to take a lot of different changes to secure PLDs future in-game.

Unfortunately, this is still a tricky situation, as simply subbing nin will always more than accommodate the lack abyssea buffs, allowing dds to still easily tank anything.

Most other jobs can be fixed pretty easily, but pld definitely is not one of them. I've yet to see any viable solutions that might put pld into the spotlight, and i am unable to come up with one myself either. The job simply tends to be redundant, and offer nothing over what other jobs can do. It seems like the only thing that could make pld desireable over mnk, nin, war, etc would be improving pld's dd capabilities to the point that it can keep up with those jobs. And given its defensive nature, i'm not sure that is the right solution.

[Pellucid]

I definitely don't think they should give PLD more DD ability etc., but I kinda like the idea of giving it more evasion. If you gave it high evasion, it'd be able to tank all the stuff NIN and MNK can tank, and everything they can't also =P Of course you should also add harder mobs post 90 since there are so many things that can be done without PLD already ><

[Rambus]

Pld is one of the hardest jobs to fix at the moment. There's really no need for a tank. Even prior to Abyssea having a Pld was more or less a safety net against bad stuff from happening. I'm not hating on the job either. I love it have it leveled but tanks are just next to impossible to make useful unless you either nerf melee damage enmity and/or make melee take way more damage. That would make a lot of angry people I would think.

The other option is to buff Pld but how? Make it do more damage or heal more? Then it outclasses other jobs that sole function is to damage or heal. It's very hard to do with keeping balance.

Pretty much this, PLD is in a tight spot. really not fair for PLD in the game atm. looking say at 2005 then now PLD got almost nothing compared to what melee got in damage buffs.

Unless a PLD has Empyrean sword or both sword and sheild, PLD does not belong in abyssea.

[Yukichibi]

Cover the entire party is ridiculous, bescause you ll lose massive amount of enmity with all those damage in your face.

In Abyssea /nin is almost useless when tanking, because you waste time where you could have make some damage instead.

Outside abyssea, /nin killed pld a long ago, it's better to take no damage than less damage.

The point is to not make PLD mandatory, but useful:

• For example you could make PLD immune to enmity reset, so you want them for NM's that reset hate, but it's still doable without them.
• Shield block can augment enmity rather than decrease it like all damage.
• Or simply the paladin gains enmity when taking physical damage, and still lose it when taking magical damage.

[Wade]

I haven't played PLD in Aby, haven't really done much of anything in aby for that matter, but I have a question. Is a PLD using a Greatsword not useful in Aby? It would do more damage plus can act as a support healer up front. Just a thought.