Pld Emnity/hate distribution chages?

[Ryx]

pld can not hold better hate then mnk or war (these are only other jobs i can speak for that you made mention of) at the moment i am not sure where this is even coming from.

Allow me to explain this one. What Cz was talking about was not about their ability to hold hate, but about their ability to control the monster. Having a War, Mnk, or any DD "tank" the monster results in a messy, Tp-spamming trainwreck waiting to happen. When you have the a Pld tanking, there is far less danger involved, because the Pld feeds signifigantly less Tp, takes none of the damage, and has tools to respond to shit-hits-fan situations. Nin *might* feed less TP than we do, because of Yurin, it's debateable, on the grounds of their attack rate, and that their evasion and shadows prevent mobs from gaining TP attacking them.

I agree to an extent about giving paladin a stronger cure risking us turned into a healer, but at the same time, I feel we need something stronger than Cure IV. Perhaps a take on whm afflatus, where our damage taken can be converted into cure potency, similiar to how solace cures are converted into holy damage.

Holy II being a spell form of Atonement is an interesting idea, and one I'm not necessarily opposed to.

Personally though, I think a lot of people here have suggested some absurd ideas, things that have the potential to go wayyy too far out of balance. Some sound good at a glance, but then you think of the reprecussions of them. I don't believe we should be requesting any abilities that take player skill & commitment out of the equation. Paladin should have an upper edge when it comes to tanking, but they need to work for it. A middle-class Paladin should NOT be able to keep hate off a high-class DD going all out right off the bat. Not even a high-class Paladin should be capable of doing that, in all honesty.

Try not to think only of Paladin, but how we're supposed to play & work with everyone else. A few subtle changes have the potential to go a long way, since the problems against us aren't quite as bad as people make them out to be. I know a lot of people are crying "Paladin is worthless!" over and over again. This is not true. Perhaps the people doing the crying are worthless on THEIR Paladins, but the job itself is not. I'm not going to say we fit into any of the cookie-cutter party setups right now, because abyssea has thrown the curve balls at us of !! triggers, and cruor/atma buffs, but that doesn't mean it's a bad job.

[Kavik]

I have had similar discussions in my ls with our mages (mainly one who thinks he is the god of all whms and in truth i think he sucks, but that is another story) my solution was similar to pld getting its own provoke, currently even using invincible (which is another gripe because they gave the same damn thing ((only better mind you)) to blms i.e. Mana Wall and it does not make u invincible it does the largely the same thing as perfect dodge becuase if u get hit with a spell you're still dead) I believe pld should have an end all be all hate getter JA, in which NOTHING will pull hate off the pld, and i already KNOW SE can do this because there is an NM in wajaom woodlands that already DOES. If you have never met him, he's an aptant dropping flea that will not attack anyone else but the person who aggro'd him, (since he's a flea and you have to aggro him before he is targetable) until that person is dead, then he moves to the next person with hate until everyone is either dead or he is. So I see no reason that this would not be possible, it would make pld's useful again as a tank, and not abnormally effect the other jobs in the game. If you want to hp tank some NM with a mnk by all means take you're mnk nin blue whatever and tank away with damage etc (i also eva tank on thf and my hate controlling ability makes me a good one, but i love pld and since it is the only job dedicated to tanking i beleive it should be the BEST and it is ridiculous that half the jobs in the game have some form of hate control while the main tank in the game gets next to nothing, and what it does have has rediculous delays even with merits.). But if you have a pld they should be able to tank the mob no matter cures/nukes/dmg is done to the mob from the party. It could even be meritable giving pld's some flexibilty. As as 90 sch and 90 whm i prefer to cure one person over 18.

[Arcon]

Augmenting the Cover effect sounds great to me, especially cause I'm probably the only PLD in the history of FFXI who has it fully merited \o/

That aside, raising enmity cap for PLD may not be the smartest idea, since once they're over cap, they would stay there and it would make it impossible for other jobs to take hate, unless the PLD takes massive damage. Sure, that would solidify a PLDs role as a tank, but maybe make it a bit overpowered. I guess it depends on how much they increase the cap, if they do. Just a bit too much, and it would be overpowered, not enough and constant hitters, like MNK or dual wielders, would get hate back all the time, making the mob spin like a dreidel.

[Dale]

Augmenting the Cover effect sounds great to me, especially cause I'm probably the only PLD in the history of FFXI who has it fully merited \o/

That aside, raising enmity cap for PLD may not be the smartest idea, since once they're over cap, they would stay there and it would make it impossible for other jobs to take hate, unless the PLD takes massive damage. Sure, that would solidify a PLDs role as a tank, but maybe make it a bit overpowered. I guess it depends on how much they increase the cap, if they do. Just a bit too much, and it would be overpowered, not enough and constant hitters, like MNK or dual wielders, would get hate back all the time, making the mob spin like a dreidel.

I have cover fully merited also, so you are not the only one

I've been playing ff11 off and on now for probably a decade, and I can honestly say at no point in the past has the Paladin been as powerful as it is now. All of these people saying Paladins are dead should have played the job back when your shield was horrible, you ran out of mp in seconds, and you were lucky if you could kill an even match monster.

Just because you have these ninjas or /ninjas running around with lots of atma shadow tanking mobs doesn't mean the Paladin is dead. It would be retarded if only one job could tank stuff afterall. I have tanked a few NMs in abyssea already and i just started doing it, and that was without any atma. There is nothing wrong with the Paladin job. Of course it's not perfect and there is always ways to improve - but this job is far far from being dead. It's alive and well, and IMHO, kicking @$$.

[Tonberry]

I have cover fully merited also, so you are not the only one

I've been playing ff11 off and on now for probably a decade, and I can honestly say at no point in the past has the Paladin been as powerful as it is now. All of these people saying Paladins are dead should have played the job back when your shield was horrible, you ran out of mp in seconds, and you were lucky if you could kill an even match monster.

Just because you have these ninjas or /ninjas running around with lots of atma shadow tanking mobs doesn't mean the Paladin is dead. It would be retarded if only one job could tank stuff afterall. I have tanked a few NMs in abyssea already and i just started doing it, and that was without any atma. There is nothing wrong with the Paladin job. Of course it's not perfect and there is always ways to improve - but this job is far far from being dead. It's alive and well, and IMHO, kicking @$$.

P@$$ whatever you're smoking this way

[rog]

That aside, raising enmity cap for PLD may not be the smartest idea, since once they're over cap, they would stay there and it would make it impossible for other jobs to take hate, unless the PLD takes massive damage. Sure, that would solidify a PLDs role as a tank, but maybe make it a bit overpowered.

Eh, not really. Holding hate isn't a problem now for any dd job. Not being able to easily flip the mob around would actually be a nerf for pld, as they would only hold hate slightly better, and would have a much harder time in an emergency.

[GERM]

I agree with all of you on this, My PLD has done nothing but sat on the sideline since abyssea and with the increase of skill caps a NIN or THF can blink tank outside of abyssea on most things. Natural voke is something long over due and even an ability that absorbs damage like suggested would increase the use of a PLD over a MNK in some cases especially if the proc rate would be improved but to get it high enough to match a MNK HP would almost be unfair.. Now maybe a 3 minute ability that lasts for 1.5 minutes that has an ability to resist damage based on enmity or like someone mentioned Accomplish but an AoE version would be nice to see. PLD needs an increase rate of damage to pull hate off a mnk or war. Decreased Natural enmity decay traits or simplified everything Ive said a job traits that redirects enmity of party to the PLD just because its in an alliance.

[rog]

Anything involving hate will not fix the problems pld has. Any job, including pld, can easily reach, and maintain the enmity cap.d Pld's problem is that it is redundant, and inferior in all ways to other jobs.

[Kurai-Akuba]

Ya PLD was my first 75 and second job to 90. @Mustakrakish yes!! I had the same conversation yesterday, PLD needs it's own provoke. Either a "Provoke 2" with super EMN gain or an "Accomplice" type ability with similar amounts of EMN gain.
The cover ability should also be area specific in my opinion (maybe Cover 2) to actually cover any party member or possibly alliance standing behind the PLD.
People are also saying here that PLD is only a tank actually that's how you perceive it from the way it's been played in the past, it doesn't always have to be that way. Many years ago Warriors were considered tanks. Maybe they should look at increasing damage effectiveness in parties, making it more of a holy knight. Not as much DD as traditional DD jobs but enough to keep up, and healing party members at the same time. Just my thoughts anyway, could be a way to get PLD back into parties :P

[azjazo]

Ya PLD was my first 75 and second job to 90. @Mustakrakish yes!! I had the same conversation yesterday, PLD needs it's own provoke. Either a "Provoke 2" with super EMN gain or an "Accomplice" type ability with similar amounts of EMN gain.
The cover ability should also be area specific in my opinion (maybe Cover 2) to actually cover any party member or possibly alliance standing behind the PLD.
People are also saying here that PLD is only a tank actually that's how you perceive it from the way it's been played in the past, it doesn't always have to be that way. Many years ago Warriors were considered tanks. Maybe they should look at increasing damage effectiveness in parties, making it more of a holy knight. Not as much DD as traditional DD jobs but enough to keep up, and healing party members at the same time. Just my thoughts anyway, could be a way to get PLD back into parties :P

You sir hitted the spot, increasing PLD damage output and light spells focus and giving it a native provoke would certanly put us back in the spotlight

Tho, in terms of balance, DRK (as the counterpart of PLD) should recive more damage mitigation means, as they also use the heaviest armor in the game.

Making PLD and DRK the oposite side of spectrum on frontline spellcasters, DRK focused on DD but can sustain damage and PLD focused on sustaining damage but capable of deal damage