Pld Emnity/hate distribution chages?

[Garota]

I've seen Paladins hold hate VERY efficiently, I don't think there's any issue with PLD keeping hate... That is, until the enmity reset abilities that a lot of monsters tend to have...

[rog]

increasing PLD damage output and light spells focus and giving it a native provoke would certanly put us back in the spotlight

But it wouldn't. Provoke it entirely useless, since 1-2 good weapon skills will cap your hate anyway. The only thing that would help pld is increased DD ability. Increased to the point that it's one of the best dds. I'm afraid there's no chance of that happening.

ok, first of all. lets use the jobs in this game as to how they were ment to be used. second. yes u can have a mnk or war keep hate with cure bombs. thats not how this game was ment to be played. if u want to play this game that way.

It doesn't matter how it was meant to be played. Like it or not, that's currently the best way to play.

[Zephrose]

I too believe Pld has taken a hit in the game, in general. However; I am persistent with my Pld, regardless of what others may say about the job.

I have been finding myself more and more useful in abyssea with my linkshell friends when it comes to farming for keyitems. As Pld we have access to a lot of useful weapon skills. One of which is hard to find unless you have a War(Obviously having access to all weapon skills aside from near eastern jobs).

As for damage, I believe in abyssea it's all about the right atmas you possess and use. My usual set of atmas consists of VV+RR+GH. This is straight TP gain and crit hit %. With these atmas on I find myself taking hate over my Nin counter part during our battles and also contributing to a good chunk of the monsters health.

I do believe Pld is not balanced anymore. Healing spells do not generate the same enmity anymore. Damage outside of abyssea is below par. And the constant ability to grab the monsters attention off a fellow character is just down right impossible if they are doing massive damage.

I like the idea of a cover tweak. I also believe that some ability times would be best if shortened. Playing on Nin, I have gotten a feel for Yonin/Innin and would like to see something similar on Pld. Also, as players HP grows Pld cures become less and less useful.

Ideas :
Templar - Duration 3mins - Recast 3mins
Lowers damage(-Attack by 10-15%?)
Raises enmity cap or Spikes enmity(Similar to Sentinel) for the Pld.
Raises cure potency by 15-20%

Crusader - Duration 3mins - Recast 3mins
Lowers block rate and/or defense. (-10-25%?)
lowers cure potency by 25-40%.
Raises Attack speed. (Does not stack with Hasso)
Raises Attack power. (+attack 10-25%)

Obviously these are just ideas and are welcome to criticism.

[deathgod]

who cares if raising pld enmity cap Overpowers pld in that way they broke mnk thf and nin already may as well do this too

[rog]

As for damage, I believe in abyssea it's all about the right atmas you possess and use. My usual set of atmas consists of VV+RR+GH. This is straight TP gain and crit hit %. With these atmas on I find myself taking hate over my Nin counter part during our battles and also contributing to a good chunk of the monsters health.

Of course pld can definitely put out some decent damage. However so can every other job, from war to whm (in fact i'd bet a good whm would beat a pld by a large margin). There's nothing special about being a middle of the road dd.

[Zephrose]

Of course pld can definitely put out some decent damage. However so can every other job, from war to whm (in fact i'd bet a good whm would beat a pld by a large margin). There's nothing special about being a middle of the road dd.

Im sure a Whm could front some great damage. I don't believe it could beat a properly geared DD Pld if set next to each other. Gear would be the defining point in that.

As most people play Pld, they believe they have to set themselves in "Pld related only" gear. There is loads of gear out there that can push a Pld up to be a proper DD. It does however take away from them tanking effectively(Less defense, usually no shield, etc).

It's all in the way you play/gear the job really. As for where it stands now, I agree that no one likes to be the middle guy. That is why Pld needs to find it's role again. As of right now, we're the middle or below middle guy when it comes to large group events or gatherings. In a small group(2-6ppl), we can get the job done well enough. Usually with less casualties.

I find more DDs are unprepared to take a hit if looked at by the mob, making them more of an MP/healer sponge.

[rog]

I find more DDs are unprepared to take a hit if looked at by the mob, making them more of an MP/healer sponge.

While this used to be a concern, it really isn't anymore. Healers have essentially infinite mp. Taking 600 damage per hit, and doing nothing to stop it is just fine. It's not a big deal if a mage needs to throw a cure 5 repeatedly as fast as the recast will allow. They have plenty of mp to do so.

[Aeonk]

Personally, I don't think that PLD is completely incapable of fulfilling it's original role in a group. It's still a safer option for tanking against harder things like Rani or Apademak. As for the issue of holding hate against others... you have to go the DD route to do it.

Not much has changed from Atonement style tanking, except now it's not nearly as effective as it was before (being that atonement now only deals half dmg and monsters die too quickly for enmity to be built quickly.)
A PLD with Almace will still be tanking right alongside any MNK or NIN (even empyrean ones), because of that hate cap. With an Almace you can hit the hate cap relatively at the same time a NIN or MNK can, from there you're cotanking the rest of the fight.
The problem with that, is that it's pretty harsh that you're required to get an empyrean just to perform your original role to an adequate level. So at this point, even though PLD can still work, any help it can get won't be turned away.

just my 2 cents.

[rog]

Personally, I don't think that PLD is completely incapable of fulfilling it's original role in a group. It's still a safer option for tanking against harder things like Rani or Apademak. As for the issue of holding hate against others... you have to go the DD route to do it.

I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise. Pld can perform their roll to an average ability. However their original roll is pointless, and their "new" roll (dding) is only middle of the road, and easily beaten.

[Aeonk]

I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise. Pld can perform their roll to an average ability. However their original roll is pointless, and their "new" roll (dding) is only middle of the road, and easily beaten.

I wouldn't say easily beaten. Vorpal blade's a great WS. Better than some weapon options (like Scythe or Great Sword.) You just can't use "Turtle" atma's if you wanna keep up.