Will SE ever shine light on RDM again, will SE even answer us?

[Thorva]

Throva, if you need convincing of Red Mage not being as bad as you're pressing upon it, I suggest you go to FFXI AH and talk to the people there, in particular Portrey, who I don't think posts here anymore. It is best heard by people who are there frequently.

I am on that site very often, and if you have find me a crowd of rdm's being taken into 145 content I would love to see them. I can guarantee you, even as high up on a pedestal as you have placed him, protey is not going to 145+ content on rdm.

The proposed correction: Red Mage is not a Buff/Enfeeble job. It is a support role job, similar to Corsair. The difference in diction means all the difference in function on the field. Our Enfeebles and Buffs are part of the whole that makes up our support function.

So you are trying to tell me that rdm support isn't based off enfeeble/enhance...... Like you literally just restated.

should, also include all the other functions that you ruled out due to not being as good as the specialists in their field

Please quote me where I ruled rdm versatility out. I would love to know the point where I said rdm can't cure, nuke, or deal damage. I know for a fact I never said that. I do, however, know the very opposite. I even stated I have done the very opposite. I have main healed a vagary, I have been #2 in damage in an exp party while both opening skill chains as well as Magic Bursting off the skill chains.
But you neglect to recall the fact that I never once said rdm under-preforms in 132 and lower content. I said because of the meta nm's and circle jobs, rdm is out on higher end content.

But the true crux is the underlined - which is the culprit of all of this: The current meta. A lot of the current meta rely upon mechanics that are fundamentally broken, have been since years ago, and are at the peak of its struggle with players now. For example: the fact that Geomancer's Debufs have no level correction function at all, due to being unresistable, is a major flaw, especially considering their max potency.

Yeah... I mentioned that, I also proposed a way to bring rdm enfeebles back by doing the same thing that was done with geo to rdm just on a lower potency scale. That way since rdm can cast more enfeebles it won't become the broken 30 seconds between attacks and -50% def.

Additionally, skill-chains were meant as a Melee function to co-ordinate with Melee as teamwork with Mages and other Melee. Scholar's ability completely bypasses this - how it got past balance checks is beyond me but it should have never existed, in my opinion.

And now they exist and there is no way around the desire to scope out a sch removing the need for melee sc, which is more reason as to why I proposed options the way I did. To allow people to choose how they want to do the content, by giving support rolls a way to allow the melee to be in that range as well as increasing the damage they deal while being stacked up in -dt gear. (I.E. target-able temper and m.eva/eva or -dt options)

Every other issue is describing what every other Melee has been suffering from, Accuracy, AoEs are general problems that, when addressed, Red Mages benefit from. Red mage doesn't suffer from TP generation issues - it can self-skillchain continuously if well geared. It's damage drops off due to the level correction on attack, which, if accuracy isn't a critical issue anymore, will get buffed due to more party emphasis on it.

Again, I already pointed this out. I fail to see why you are trying to debate with me. Rdm is massively lacking in attack which is heavily needed in 145 content, stuff you don't even see melee in. Again, something I gave up ideas to counter with already. It seems you are trying to use rdm ability in 132 and lower content as to why it is so great and it doesn't need buffs. That just isn't true, many jobs need many buffs for the 145 content, right now the only set up is tank, healer, geo, sch, blm, blm. That is a huge flaw in SE content design. Proposing ideas to allow not just rdm in that content, but many melee jobs as well because of rdm brings in balance. The thing people scream for, but once ideas get tossed around people want to claim it would make it overpowered and push the ideas aside.

Blind II has been considered a waste of merits for many years now, that won't change with nm acc. You know this statement to be situational at best. The condition in which Blind II is useful was niche (In situations where Evasion was neither capped or floored.) And that's why people called it useless. It was great for working with an evasion tank, and just one Merit outclassed a single percentage of Slow II when dINT dMND are equally capped. It takes quite a bit of Delay increase for Slow's scaling to outpace 40-60 additional accuracy loss above Blind I and Kura-Ni respectively and in cases where you can evasion tank, that's typically overkill, or inaccessible. That made Blind II great for low man groups on non-accuracy capped content.
I'd speculate that we need to rethink testing on Blind II's effectiveness overall due to the addition of RUN, and the increased percentage of monsters who spam attacks with internal delays not effected by slow. It would make sense that the Niche would have widened in these circumstances.

Our eva at 145 content is so drastically low in comparison to nm acc that blind II will not matter, it has been that way since delve. Our gear has changed, but so have the nm's. Everything has scaled. Blind II just is not effective, and it certainly isn't effective enough to have a rdm take the spot of a blm in a MB set up in 145 content when a blm can cast blind 1 on maju and still MB 2 spells for capped dmg, so changing the nm acc from capped with blind I and MAYBE dropping its fight long accuracy by 3% and using a rdm to MB maybe 130k dmg in the time a blm can do 200k dmg. I repeat, rdm is still out.

To be clear, I do agree that the class needs a buff. However I would impress upon you to reconsider the route in which it is done. A lot of the problems about Red Mage in your eyes stem from the idea that Red Mage MUST be a specialist comparable to the ones you listed or it has no purpose, and I respectfully disagree. I've found that my experiences with the class run parallel with your statement that before ilvl132, we preform very well. I don't believe that performance should be degraded down to one or two gimmicks that justify our slot in a world where there is a lot broken with it that needs to be fixed first. If we're a part of the solution to that, or ease that solution, then we find our party slot.

Show me where my proposal takes literally anything away from rdm. It doesn't, it build on what we have, rdm has always been, up until recently, the strongest enfeeble/enhance job in the game. Since abyssea people have pulled away from "bring any job, we can still find use for it" to the "bring this job or we can't take you" style thinking.
Now.... again.... because people seem to either blatantly ignore, or just flat out miss it, I still go to 135 and lower content on jobs I want. Rdm and Drk do fine with the right gear and a lot of knowledge. I blink like a christmas tree on rdm even with /lockstyle. I swap gear for literally everything. I swap gear just for walking around. Plenty of people know rdm, not only the few names you see, however those wide spread names are NOT going to 145 content on rdm. Just like I don't go to 145 content on drk, saevel doesn't go on war, Afania might get to go on his cor though, Valli doesn't go to 145 content on thf (he uses a new name now) 145 content.... not 135, we are talking about rdm in 145 content. Where only rank, whm, sch, geo, blm go. Something I am making a proposal to allow not ONLY rdm, but melee jobs as well.

Phalanx II pales in comparison to Phalanx until max merits where it becomes equal at high Enhancing levels. However with Ascension there seems to be no point in the use of Phalanx II in compassion to Phalanx. Instead, I'd recommend that Phalanx II be changed from flat damage reduction number, to Damage Reduction percentage, capping at 15% at 500 Enhancing skill and 5 Merits, (tentative, that may be a little high). Balance factor is that it could count as Gear Damage Reduction and thus subject to cap. This would make it Unique to Red Mage due to being a merit spell, and address the outgoing damage output issues without messing too hard with what is pretty much considered Job Exclusive buffs.

At this point most rdm have given up hope on phalanx II and just /sch and use phalanx 1. Phalanx 2 actually is stronger max merits with spell enhance cap and 5/5, but it isn't enough of a difference for rdm to give up para/slow II. However as you state it being reworked as a % dmg reduction I think would be enough to get many rdm to put merits into it even if it was only 3% per merit for a max of 15% or drop it down to 2% per merit at a max of 10%. I Highly doubt anyone would merit at 1% per merit unless it breaks the -dt cap of 50%
One of the main problems with phalanx 1 is that SE ****ed up and gave both pld and run phalanx. That should have been exclusive, I complained the day I saw SE handing it over to pld, I remember I was in abyssea farming Orthrus horns. In fact I was on rdm/sch using accession phalanx.

Similarly, instead of correcting accuracy/evasion stastic, we can have Blind II add a static evasion chance calculated by dINT and enfeebling skill, up to a cap determined by Merit level. This will remove the 'overcapped accuracy' issue most NMs have due to level difference scaling and blow the niche of Blind II wide open.

Would need a massive gain in order to be used in 145 content. The nm acc is entirely too high.

As far as Slow II, it should effect all internal delays of 'TP move' normal attacks, and always should have.

This would counter SE design to give ever nm massive tp regain and time based tp moves. They would declare that overpowered and nerf it back to original state.

Dia's line could be adjusted to include Magical Defense down. If we are concerned by the use of it through other classes, a Trait that makes this change on Red Mage (Level 51) could keep the balance between other classes in check, and give Red Mage a reason to use Dia above other classes. I also feel that Dia III's potency should grow with the number of merits, starting at 15% and growing to 19 or 20% at max merits. Alternatively, Saboteur affecting Dia's Potency would also work.

I never claimed to have the best idea for any of the proposed ideas, they were just ideas. Something like this would be a good idea, even if they only made dia 3 to have the m. def down.

I am not comfortable with the idea of Temper line being something that can be shared with other classes. I'm sorry but they're effectively a trait a Red Mage has to maintain, not a superior version of a Corsair's roll. And 26% Triple attack does not feel like something I feel should be shared given the level of double and triple attack classes already have at their disposal. This is effectively our catch-up skill when it comes to melee performance. While I feel this may boil down to a difference in opinion However, - I do not believe Red Mage should be regulated to back-line position except when individual circumstances call for it. Making this a party buff would once again solidify Red Mage being in the back line by default in all party situations and would immediately result in me unsubscribing once again. I just flatly don't want this to happen, sorry.

This is the opinion of a few vs the opinion of how ever many else that would like to see something like this implemented. While I do agree triple attack could inherently be broken in terms of giving it out as a buff in that quantity. I don't think SE would allow that much triple attack in a single buff. This is also why I said make temper 2 double attack and make that one the targetable spell. All the melee rdm would cry because they lose triple attack, but it isn't like rdm can gear up 20%+ in triple attack gear and load up double attack to well over 30% to balance out the loss of temper triple attack. Furthermore this would NOT force rdm into a backline job, if a rdm is in the party it already has a slot, all it has to do is cast spell on other DD's, how does that force rdm to be back line? Dnc can cure people but it isn't forced to stand with the mages. (can build tp off no-foot rise, raise potency of dances too) That was just your own personal view of a rdm, if that one adjustment locks a rdm as a backline only job then it somehow got more potency when casting on pt than self.

There is not much else I feel needs adjusting here. Red Mage on the melee end really only suffers from attack starvation statically. We have access to the best WS and most of the gear necessary to abuse it. Yes, Taeon is weak in comparison to Herculean, but, like other jobs, we gear around our own abilities, and our spells help close parts of that gap. The rest is knowing what pieces to get where, and FFXIAH has a lot of info on that.

Gear is what makes people able to do things, taeon in general is so attack/stat starved that temper II and access to ws does NOT close the gap. Want proof of that? Put a rdm in taeon vs a blu in taeon, check the parse, then put that same blu in herc gear. Tell me the difference. A decked out rdm will cap out with about +260 dex "MAYBE" 270 and in the low 1k range of attack during ws. That is top tier, decked out BiS CDC rdm. Get a mid-tier (which herc would be the standard) blu in herc with the same amount of gil tossed into augments running tang+1 and niburu blade, and you will have a cdc set with closing in on +300 dex and more than 1.4k attack before it uses /war ja to boost it's attack even further. (My ls has plenty of bandwagon herc geared blus with that very gear in those very stat ranges.) Go map out a BiS rdm, you will see I am dead on with those numbers.

I strongly suggest reconnecting with people there. I can only share what I've found in my research and what little testing I've found. But the confidence exuded by those who are actually on those boards is infectious, as well as the solid data that backs it. There is still a lot that needs to be fixed. But a lot has changed for the better for the class, in my opinion.

You didn't have any useful data to back anything in the 145 content. You had a great idea with phalanx, but blind II is dead, slow II won't get changed because it would screw with SE coding as well as been seen as too strong even in the eyes of the company that gave rudra a massive buff a couple years ago.


"Reconnecting" with people won't change the fact rdm will NOT get invites to 145 content. If you are running with people that are taking rdm and melee to 145 content without these or other buffs, I can assure you that you are paying for a win while being on that job or you aren't winning with that setup. Both melee and rdm have zero use for 145 content. Please stop talking about rdm ability in 130 content like it matters when someone says endgame. Shout groups in sparks gear can beat all 119 content, some can beat 124 content. Reforge and skirmish geared jobs can beat 129 content. So rdm has usefulness for a full 3 more ilvl worth of content before it starts getting left behind, at 135 content rdm are few and far between, at 145 content rdm as well as melee are nonexistent.

Even if merit 2 category got buffed on rdm, then you still have to determine what to put merits in. That is a fix for lvl 75 cap rdm, not ilvl rdm. SE would actually have to rework the merit 2 category into new useful options for rdm and make all the merit 2 spells available to rdm at all times while NOT giving those buffs to other jobs. This is something SE would just never do, more than likely, and I highly doubt it despite the rumors we have heard since the release of ToAU, in order to adjust rdm merit 2 category and still make it usefull, SE would have to fully unlock all merits in merit 2 for all jobs. That means 5/5 on all jobs in all merit categories.