Make the Relic and Empyrean WSs Questable

[Seriha]

It sounds like you need to suck it up Seriha and either work towards an emp weapon (slowly) or not do it at all. The emp group I'm in consists of 5 people and in 1 1/2 months we've completed Gaxe(90), Dagger(85), H2h(85), Katana(85), Gkt(85) and the dagger/h2h are about halfway done to 90 each because we're doing both at the same time. I'm sure you'll be thinking our playtime must be enormous, however, we only work on weapons for at most 3 hours a night.

It's not so much thinking you have oodles of time, you're just more fortunate to be able act upon it more frequently (7 nights as opposed to 3). Having 5 people in contrast to my own semi-reliable 3 is also beneficial in being able to stockpile more KIs and basically cut down on the average time needed to fight one of the item dropping NMs. Sure, things would still get done eventually, but I don't think anyone would willingly want to take the proposed 20-30 weeks when someone in your position can manage in 3-9. Months upon months upon months of work is a very risky carrot to dangle in front of MMO players these days, and while some may chase it no matter what, it doesn't mean that chase was done right. You've got a good thing going. I'm envious, even. Those who can hammer one out in 3-4 days, though, are not the norm and certainly aren't the ones who stand to benefit from the idea.

Still, that's a bit tangential to the main point. Seems like a lot against the idea are undervaluing the weapons themselves. I share the concern in not wanting the Empyrean path to wind up useless, but demanding the WS be married exclusively is silly as the game has already thrown them around in one form or another. The WoE versions just happen to be better than the fake relics in terms of reliability (no latent gimmicks) and overall WS quality. Expanding on that won't end Vana'diel like some would want us to believe.

[Kazen]

So you what something for nothing(because lets face it, WS points are a joke)? Ok gotcha. The entire point of doing a WoE weapon is the WS and the emp the WS/aftermath. If you want the WS that badly do the WoE weapon; you can clear an entire chamber with less than a pt and it only takes a 30 minute commitment.

[Flunklesnarkin]

So you what something for nothing(because lets face it, WS points are a joke)? Ok gotcha. The entire point of doing a WoE weapon is the WS and the emp the WS/aftermath. If you want the WS that badly do the WoE weapon; you can clear an entire chamber with less than a pt and it only takes a 30 minute commitment.

I think you miss the point.. its not something for nothing..

its a quest.. and its still just an idea on the drawing board..

nobody has even proposed how difficult of a quest it should be.


I think the big reason this was proposed is there is so much crying from relic owners about how overpowered empyrean ws's are.. that if they just made them questable... even if it was a retarded god awful quest.. relic owners wouldn't really have anything to bitch about.. because they could ungimp their weapons.

[Seriha]

No, hardly nothing. Myself and others have felt that should it be possible to permanently have access to the Emp WS, having at least the WoE weapon should be a requirement to initiate the subsequent quest(s). As is, if we wish to keep access, that means forever having to use said weapon. That's basically saying your weapon progression stops unless some off-hands are a possibility and until maybe a trial or two comes with each update.

Perhaps you could call it the Zilart effect, but I don't want old equipment to be the best for years upon years again. The pinnacle variants of Relics, Mythics, and Empyreans stand as an exception to this, but their justification lies in a mix of difficulty to acquire and the unique perks they get on top that should ideally make them better than any weapon below. If this isn't the case, SE's dropped the ball on their design. So, in part, I'm calling for buffs to those. Then again, I've also felt the requirements for Relics and Mythics to be too harsh, so easing those conditions wouldn't be objected against by myself or others... save maybe those whose feelings will be hurt by more people getting access to content that's designed to be... accessed.

[Andylynn]

I think you miss the point.. its not something for nothing..

its a quest.. and its still just an idea on the drawing board..

nobody has even proposed how difficult of a quest it should be.


I think the big reason this was proposed is there is so much crying from relic owners about how overpowered empyrean ws's are.. that if they just made them questable... even if it was a retarded god awful quest.. relic owners wouldn't really have anything to bitch about.. because they could ungimp their weapons.

It doesn't ungimp their weapon if their ws stinks to begin with. They are complaining because its outrageous how powerful empyrean ws are compared to relic. Using relic ws on a weaker dmg weapon is doing no one any favors.

You have another option if you do not have the friends or time investment for constant Abyssea to reach the final product. The utility weapons and woe weapons fufill your request, and not much more is needed after that. The fact these guys want the player to have the weapon to begin with first totally removes the point in questing them, as usually the weapon they come on is superior to others out there.

WS points are a joke, a group NM that could probably be brought down AV style, etc is not going to make this anymore a reasonable request. A tool does not deserve to have a godly weaponskill in their hands, it's bad enough mot people don't even know how to use their normal WS properly, what are they going to do if everyone is in godmode on easymode of a game. This is an awful idea, plain and simple, and no drawing board/brainstorming would make it worthwhile.

[Kazen]

I'm going to have to disagree with you then. What point is there if they have no sort of individuality. Think of it as SE's way of catering to the more end game oriented people with a specific set of content (in this case relics/mythics/emps). The point of a game is to have content everyone will enjoy, and there are certain groups of people who play to be the best. I look at all forms of relic weapons as this pinnacle that SE has added for this type of player. Everyone can not have everything if they want the game to be successful; certain pieces of gear are added to be rare to create this sense of a more elite player that more of the casual players strive to be. I don't play nearly as much anymore as when I first started so I have no issues if I'm no longer considered among "the best" anymore; I was once in that position and it was fun while I had that time available to me but now I'm happy just having one Emp weapon.

[Andylynn]

I'm going to have to disagree with you then. What point is there if they have no sort of individuality. Think of it as SE's way of catering to the more end game oriented people with a specific set of content (in this case relics/mythics/emps). The point of a game is to have content everyone will enjoy, and there are certain groups of people who play to be the best. I look at all forms of relic weapons as this pinnacle that SE has added for this type of player. Everyone can not have everything if they want the game to be successful; certain pieces of gear are added to be rare to create this sense of a more elite player that more of the casual players strive to be. I don't play nearly as much anymore as when I first started so I have no issues if I'm no longer considered among "the best" anymore; I was once in that position and it was fun while I had that time available to me but now I'm happy just having one Emp weapon.

How does it remove individuality? You have a truck ton of magian trials allowing anyone to customize their weaponry as they please, if you gave people the end game ws on any weapon of their choosing, you would kill the individuality, because anyone with half a mind is going to go for the higest damage weapon. Therefore, it will result in over camping of certain NMs be they Orthrus, (widowmaker's nm), Empousa, etc. People will all have the same cookie cutter weapon, spamming the same ungodly powerful ws, and that would just be plain dumb. Your 'point' is self defeating, as there is no point in giving everyone an easy mode.

[Kazen]

How does it remove individuality? You have a truck ton of magian trials allowing anyone to customize their weaponry as they please, if you gave people the end game ws on any weapon of their choosing, you would kill the individuality, because anyone with half a mind is going to go for the higest damage weapon. Therefore, it will result in over camping of certain NMs be they Orthrus, (widowmaker's nm), Empousa, etc. People will all have the same cookie cutter weapon, spamming the same ungodly powerful ws, and that would just be plain dumb. Your 'point' is self defeating, as there is no point in giving everyone an easy mode.

I think you're mistaken; my reply was meant to Seriha, not you.

[Andylynn]

I think you're mistaken; my reply was meant to Seriha, not you.

Then utilize quotations so one knows who you are replying to. It being under mine makes it ambigious.
If we look at it that way, mine can be a response to her as well.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'm going to have to disagree with you then. What point is there if they have no sort of individuality. Think of it as SE's way of catering to the more end game oriented people with a specific set of content (in this case relics/mythics/emps). The point of a game is to have content everyone will enjoy, and there are certain groups of people who play to be the best. I look at all forms of relic weapons as this pinnacle that SE has added for this type of player. Everyone can not have everything if they want the game to be successful; certain pieces of gear are added to be rare to create this sense of a more elite player that more of the casual players strive to be. I don't play nearly as much anymore as when I first started so I have no issues if I'm no longer considered among "the best" anymore; I was once in that position and it was fun while I had that time available to me but now I'm happy just having one Emp weapon.

I do agree that there should be an obvious best weapon in the game.. but i don't think it should be a relic / mythic / empyrean weapon..


which is why I think making the weaponskills questable wouldn't be a horrible thing..

If SE plans on adding new endgame content.. and adds a new ultimate weapon..

making the weaponskills questable wouldn't ruin the epeen for the people who play to be the best.