dagger ws too OP?

[Afania]

lol Afania, get over yourself. THF DNC BLU ARE DD jobs. If you want to argue that WAR and DRK are behind the eight ball now, fine. They've been massively behind SAM for a long time now also.

And now they're behind THF DNC BLU. I don't understand why you think THF DNC BLU parse top is right, WAR DRK doesn't parse top isn't. WAR and DRKs are DD jobs as well. But the only argument you had was "WAR DRK've been behind SAM for a long time, just let them be."

As a WAR I'm happy. Did a Tenzen fight the other day. My friend went THF and I went WAR/NIN using Axe/Sword. I parsed right behind her. Now I'm sure some will pop on here and start lobbing insults about us personally or our gear or the content we chose to do. Anyone who wants to do so can just go ahead and f--- themselves. The point is we both came on the jobs we wanted to come on, we had fun, and we came real close to the record. Is that not how the game is supposed to work?

How you have fun and how you play your job wasn't the point of this discussion though. You can play the DD RDM, DD BRD, DD GEO or DD WHM if you have fun and want to. I don't think anyone would care to stop you from playing DD X jobs.

I'm saying that WAR should parse higher than DNC THF BLU, not the other way around. Whether you get invite or not on WAR or how you have fun on WAR was not the point. You kept playing the personal experience card because your friend accepts a DD that does less dmg, that doesn't apply to everyone. We all want to play the job we want to play, and the fact is I haven't seen one single WAR DRK in endgame for months, most of my LS mate that used to play WAR DRK already bandwagon SAM since fudo update and now they bandwagon THF, and they still don't play WAR and DRK.

[Afania]

There's part of your problem there. THF and DNC are DD jobs. If you really want to get technical about it, WAR was "designed" to be a tank. Start the game with sword and shield, got JA's like provoke and defender.

THF, on the other hand, was the best DD in the game at release, for quite the same reason it's strong now.

That whole argument of "X job wasn't designed to be a DD" doesnt have any merit. DNC CAN throw out cures with TP but it cannot realistically main heal a party at a high level. It has a side utility in that regard. Just like DRK has Side utility in Black Magic, unique WS. WAR has Tank JA's, and Enfeebling WS, mastery over many weapon types etc.

The point is that WAR can't really tank in endgame, enfeebling doesn't land very well AFAIK.

But TH and steps works just fine in endgame. I agree that waltz and enmity control are not useful, but TH and steps still makes a difference.

If they make WAR tank viable in endgame, at least WAR would have a legit reason to do less dmg, but it doesn't.

If they want to make DNC THF top DD, fine. Just remove steps and TH, for the sake of job balance.

[Byrth]

I have a pretty well geared DNC and have gotten to go DNC to party content only a handful of times in the last two years. The worst part is that the few times I did go DNC, the party would have been better off if I was on another job. Even now I'm only able to make a marginal argument for DNC over melee-BRD, but at least I'm finally able to make that argument.

As far as DNC goes, you're dramatically overstating the importance and viability of Steps. They're great in a subsection of content where fight times are long, the monsters have very high defense, and you can stack them with other forms of defense down. The rub is that any job can sub DNC and provide steps (like a melee Bard), so you're not really talking about "steps" as much as "steps level 6-10." Steps Level 6-10 are only viable in even longer fights and only matter when the monsters have even higher defense. Basically, it was perfectly reasonable to not want a DNC in your party for the vast majority of content back when we weren't very competitive as DDs.

As far as TH goes, I did go THF much more often than DNC over the last 2 years, but I rarely asked for THFs when leading groups.

[dasva]

Even as far as defense goes you have other option which while in different slots add up to enough that steps shouldn't matter. I mean geo + drg + light shotted dia is already -95% def. I doubt there is any nm in the game that you'd need more def down and even if you did /dnc can take you all the way to 100%

[zataz]

not that i really care about what any of u think i will say my rdm is loving this update >.>

[Afania]

I have a pretty well geared DNC and have gotten to go DNC to party content only a handful of times in the last two years. The worst part is that the few times I did go DNC, the party would have been better off if I was on another job. Even now I'm only able to make a marginal argument for DNC over melee-BRD, but at least I'm finally able to make that argument.

As far as DNC goes, you're dramatically overstating the importance and viability of Steps. They're great in a subsection of content where fight times are long, the monsters have very high defense, and you can stack them with other forms of defense down. The rub is that any job can sub DNC and provide steps (like a melee Bard), so you're not really talking about "steps" as much as "steps level 6-10." Steps Level 6-10 are only viable in even longer fights and only matter when the monsters have even higher defense. Basically, it was perfectly reasonable to not want a DNC in your party for the vast majority of content back when we weren't very competitive as DDs.

As far as TH goes, I did go THF much more often than DNC over the last 2 years, but I rarely asked for THFs when leading groups.

You're comparing DNC v.s BRD in terms of usefulness, if that's the case almost all of DD aren't as useful as BRD. Many well geared SAM in my LS has to play BRD 95% of the time, including the ones with Koga. BRD/DNC also isn't a standard pt setup for most of the pt on my server, unless your WHM can cover every required support alone. If you want to compare the usefulness of DD jobs, why don't you compare with WAR.

IMO higher tier BC and incursion NM lasts long enough to worth the use of steps.

I think it's ok for a DNC to get a dmg boost, but IMO it's a bit too strong atm. Now SE has to buff every none SAM DD for them to catch up, which seems like a nightmare because we wouldn't know which job getting buff gonna be even more OP than current SAM.

Even as far as defense goes you have other option which while in different slots add up to enough that steps shouldn't matter. I mean geo + drg + light shotted dia is already -95% def. I doubt there is any nm in the game that you'd need more def down and even if you did /dnc can take you all the way to 100%

If you want to build your pt that way and somehow let the fight end before angon wear, of course you can argue that steps aren't useful. How often do you see DRG GEO COR all in 1 pt though.

[Atomic_Skull]

2H being ranked lower than 1H damage is just the direction that SE has decided to take with the game. If you don't like playing SAM or WAR nobody is stopping you from playing THF or DNC.

Hey wait a minute that sounds awfully familiar now doesn't it?

[Afania]

2H being ranked lower than 1H damage is just the direction that SE has decided to take with the game. If you don't like playing SAM or WAR nobody is stopping you from playing THF or DNC.

Hey wait a minute that sounds awfully familiar now doesn't it?

I don't play SAM, WAR, THF nor DNC. I'm just tired of our WS number gets bigger each update and every NM takes less and less time to die.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't play SAM, WAR, THF nor DNC. I'm just tired of our WS number gets bigger each update and every NM takes less and less time to die.

That's how the game has worked since day 1. Hard content gets easier over time. Then they release new hard content. You should have quit 10 years ago if this was ruining the game for you.

All your other arguments basically just boil down to wanting 1 handed jobs to suck because in your head 2 handers are better.

[Afania]

That's how the game has worked since day 1. Hard content gets easier over time. Then they release new hard content. You should have quit 10 years ago if this was ruining the game for you.

Hard content gets easier in every MMO....but only as ilv goes up or better gear release. In this game hard content gets much easier without getting higher ilv.

All your other arguments basically just boil down to wanting 1 handed jobs to suck because in your head 2 handers are better.

If you bother to read the discussion, you'd know that isn't the case at all. 1h jobs don't suck and they don't need to be the best DD in this game.