dagger ws too OP?

[dasva]

AFAIK ppl with DRK WAR SAM leveled, they're on SAM 100% assuming all jobs equally geared and no personal preference toward 1 specific job. Ppl with THF SAM leveled, they can play both. Personally, I haven't seen many DRK WAR in endgame event since fudo update.
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I would say it had more to do with the skillchain dmg update. That was an insane game changer especially since not only is sam the easiest job to get tp fast enough to keep wsing in time but it's the only job that has a ws of each of the 4 lvl 2 elements making them the only ones that can do the whole 5 stepping thing for massive dmg that can't be resisted anymore

[V-1000]

[QUOTE=jbtexan;535951]does anybody else get POED when u go to wildskeeper reive for bayld farming and u get a bunch of thieves and dancers spamming 23-25k rundras and kill boss in less than five mins? SE, methinks, unintentionally screwed the pooch on this one. this totally ruins wkr bayld farming as 5 mins isnt nearly enuff time to cap out your bayld. doing 23k dmg against a wkr boss is just stupid and retarded, since you dont make any bayld and plus, you ruin the gameplay. by the time somebody shouts, you see the shout, get ur access ki, tele there, boss is already dead. went to 3 wkrs that started at over 90 percent. by the time i got it, got past the lag, got trusts out, boss was already dead and i wasted the fee for the ki. overpowering dagger weaponskills to this extent is one of the stupidest things that SE has ever done. i mean, dagger of all weapons. the weapon that does the least dmg. COME ON SE! pop your heads out and look at what you did. sheesh[/QUOTE

The problem concerning WKR is not THF or DNC doing Rudra's itself, even if you had no THF OR DNC WKR content is dependant on the number of players who show up, same effect would happen if you had max amount of players attacking the mob, mob would die just as fast. People need to stop bitching about the 1 handed weapon skill update, we are not the only jobs who got boosted we are just the only ones that can boost our ws higher using other ja, the only reason you dont see other 1 handed weapons do this damage its because they all lack abilities to boost them, THF has Sneak and trick attack not to mention their weapon skill boost on Sandung or whoever that is spelled, and the new adoulin rings that plays a huge role on ws power. I am a 119 item level DNC and the only time my ws ever reach the 20k is under Clismatic flourish and building flourish steps also play a good roll on weakening a mob down ALSO ONLY HAPPENS when we ws at 3000 TP, for this to happen using just 1 ja alone and a mere 1000 tp will not cut it, will never even reach 10K we are spending other JA and that much tp to make that happen jobs like DNC also gets skillchain bonus trait explaining your impossible to Gauge chain damage, we are not just spamming 25-30K at 1000 tp.. on regular basis i do 6k rudra when trip/crit proc 9k if we didn't use those extra ja we would not do as much damage so i think its a fair trade off…...if every ws skill 25k+ without any boost to it id agree with you but we are sacrificing stuff to boost that damage. would be unfair to nerfed that just because of WKR….all they need to do is boost the bosses hp and that fixes your issue with wkr same needs to happen for unity. not murder our only viable ws vs new content, when lowest damage weapon in the game gets a good boost to it everyone complaints but no one cares about Sam spam power….i call that bs no offense. just cause 1 ws can do that much under certain circunstances/boost it does not mean it should be killed off, so why do you wanna take from us the only ws we got that can do decent damage which we have to boost using other ja to make it that high?? how is that fair.

also ilv 119 PUP
regarding PUP yeah great job they did there, now my magic mortar is a total joke now id take wyverns 600ish breath over that ws any day hits for 350 or less on average since auto heals himself constanly when low hp, magic frames pup have lame ws we haven't even gotten another past 75 and that wasnt a nerf that was murder useless ws even when pet has low hp assuming he survives long enough and its in range to hit.

clearly you have no knowledge of either jobs and therefore its easy to complaint about it them pup pets sucks and THF/DNC's need to waste other abilities to reach that kind of power doesn't come free.

Sorry if i sounded rude, but you really need to play this jobs to understand why this is so infuriating people like you will end up ruining DNC and THF again.

WKR ins't the only way you can farm bayld either.

[Alhanelem]

average since auto heals himself constanly when low hp,

Even if you do get him to use it with low HP, its not really good anymore. It was so difficult to create the perfect conditions for the uber magic mortar back in the day that I was kind of suprised that they nerfed it. The WS has been garbage ever since, so I'm not sure why you'd even try messing with it.

Anyway, Rudra's is OP, no other WS can really touch it even when you consider that you need to set it up for it to do that much damage. I can understand why you'd be all like "people like this is why we can't have nice things", but good game balance trumps a job being OP all of a sudden even after years of being mediocre at best.

[Nebo]

Anyway, Rudra's is OP, no other WS can really touch it even when you consider that you need to set it up for it to do that much damage. I can understand why you'd be all like "people like this is why we can't have nice things", but good game balance trumps a job being OP all of a sudden even after years of being mediocre at best.

Neither THF nor Rudra's is OP right now. I'm sorry but this needs to be said. For THf to get these kinds of numbers they have to hold TP, wait on ~60 second recast timers and fulfill positional requirements that are often difficult to fulfill. No other DD really has to jump through these kinds of hoops to pump out decent dps.

Unstacked and at 1000TP there is absolutely nothing OP about Rudra's Storm. The fact that SE finally made it tactically viable to hold tp, line up JA's and wait to close skillchains is something that THF desperately needed. And it fits with the job...wait for that perfect opportunity to strike and deal massive damage...lets be clear about this NO ONE IS AT THE DELAY REDUCTION CAP SPAMMING 20-30K Rudras....no one.

The Job is still well behind SAM BLU DNC etc interms of flat out DPS potential. This "Nerf Rudra's" witch hunt ignorance needs to stop. Seriously. You should all be crying NERF BLU before that happens. smh

[Ulth]

I would say it had more to do with the skillchain dmg update. That was an insane game changer especially since not only is sam the easiest job to get tp fast enough to keep wsing in time but it's the only job that has a ws of each of the 4 lvl 2 elements making them the only ones that can do the whole 5 stepping thing for massive dmg that can't be resisted anymore

Little off topic, but Rudra's has distortion, Evisceration has gravitation, Exenterator had fragmentation, and Mandalic Stab has fusion. Thf has all level 2 elements, but only time I can self skillchain is with reives and the homestead dagger. Even then it goes much better with just rudra's into rudra's, but before the update I would do rudra's > evis > rudra's.

[Afania]

But by your own arguments earlier, WAR shouldn't be buffed, because they have warcry, and that brings something beneficial to the party, so therefore they shouldn't be doing significant amounts of dmg.

The real question is, does war cry make up the gap between WAR and SAM? Yes? Invite the WAR. No? No invite for WAR.

Also, lol at BLU being 2nd tier.

BLU was definitely 2nd tier before CDC update, behind SAM, which was the 1st tier. Not sure why'd it need that much dmg when it can already do a lot more than just dmg.

At the top end of the spectrum, with nice gear and nice buffs, SAM still beats THF and the difference is not huge. Effective use of skillchains and SA+TA can make THF the best DD in the game, poor use of skillchains or SA/TA will cause it to lag behind other equally geared DD. I see nothing wrong with this

It is wrong because THF already guarantee a pt slot, while certain jobs don't.

I have WAR and SAM leveled and geared and it's my call which I come as. My friend has DRK and was never turned away when a DD was needed either. Is SAM better? Sure. Is WAR plenty good for anything that needs a DD? It is. The same couldn't be said for the 1-hander DDs before the update and some of them still don't have a spot even now.

Personal experience, that has nothing to do with job balance. I've joined incursion/delve pt on BLU before the update, my THF friend have joined delve/incursion pt before the update. We still do more dmg than 95% of PUG SAM.

If you want to use personal experience such as "I got invite np, thus I don't care if THF DNC is competing for the pt slot", I can do the same....I got invite np before the update, thus BLU and THF were just fine.

Yeah you really don't understand. I don't want the DDs to be tiered at all. I don't want it to matter one bit which melee job one brings. I want my WAR and someone else's THF to be on the same level without either of us being dragged downward.

If THF can do exactly the same dmg as WAR, I'd just invite a THF instead of WAR to incursion and delve. More airlixir without sacrificing the kill speed, why not.

You're the one that really don't understand, unless SE disable TH, it's simply not possible to accomplish true job balance. We're still going to pick DDs, in this case we're going to pick a DD that can do top dmg AND give more drops.

[Nebo]

If THF can do exactly the same dmg as WAR, I'd just invite a THF instead of WAR to incursion and delve. More airlixir without sacrificing the kill speed, why not.

You're the one that really don't understand, unless SE disable TH, it's simply not possible to accomplish true job balance. We're still going to pick DDs, in this case we're going to pick a DD that can do top dmg AND give more drops.

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

If its not a DPS crutch, he can come what he likes. You don't actually need a THF for TH and you are overselling the value of Main THF TH here by quite a lot...especially beyond TH2..which every job can get without sub and jobs like RNG can bring with bounty shot. And even if what you are saying here was a valid concern (hint: its not)...you wouldn't stack THFs for drops. You only need one for TH

The real point is this: If a THF is at lolDPS status, then its not an option. It's not a job. Its 3 pieces of gear. Now your friend CANNOT come THF to this event because TH mules come out.

[Afania]

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

If its not a DPS crutch, he can come what he likes. You don't actually need a THF for TH and you are overselling the value of Main THF TH here by quite a lot...especially beyond TH2..which every job can get without sub and jobs like RNG can bring with bounty shot. And even what you are saying here was a valid concern...you wouldn;t stack THFs for drops. You only need one for TH

The real point is this: If a THF is at lolDPS status, then its not an option. It's not a job. Its 3 pieces of gear. Now your friend CANNOT come THF to this event because TH mules come out.

THF was still a viable DD before this update, and TH is a nice bonus that worth the sacrifice of some DPS. I've used THF in none yorcia delve and I didn't notice a huge difference between a THF and a none SAM DD.

With this update there are no reason to use a none SAM DD over THF anymore. Even before the update it wasn't a 3 pieces of gear job.

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

You get it all wrong, if a THF can do same dmg as WAR, anyone with THF and WAR equally geared would have to play THF, unless the target resists piercing or unless that person has personal preference toward 1 specific job. Nothing has changed.

Further more, according to what Comeatmebro just said, dagger jobs > WAR DRK now. Balance.

[Afania]

Amen. Seriously, I don't see why people are crying about more jobs being usable in content. If this means people feel like they can invite a thf or a dnc instead of another SAM, well then, yay, awesome, more people can play the jobs they like best.

It's funny to see people saying this reduces job diversity after watching months of either MNK MNK MNK WHM BRD SCH or SAM SAM SAM WHM BRD SCH or RNG RNG PLD WHM BRD SCH or some such... seriously.

SAM is still good. Now other jobs are good too. Why cry about it?

I'm fine with ppl invite THF DNC instead of another SAM. I'm not fine with jobs that's designed to be DD, such as WAR DRK falls behind them.

[Nebo]

I'm fine with ppl invite THF DNC instead of another SAM. I'm not fine with jobs that's designed to be DD, such as WAR DRK falls behind them.

There's part of your problem there. THF and DNC are DD jobs. If you really want to get technical about it, WAR was "designed" to be a tank. Start the game with sword and shield, got JA's like provoke and defender.

THF, on the other hand, was the best DD in the game at release, for quite the same reason it's strong now.

That whole argument of "X job wasn't designed to be a DD" doesnt have any merit. DNC CAN throw out cures with TP but it cannot realistically main heal a party at a high level. It has a side utility in that regard. Just like DRK has Side utility in Black Magic, unique WS. WAR has Tank JA's, and Enfeebling WS, mastery over many weapon types etc.