dagger ws too OP?

[Atomic_Skull]

If you bother to read the discussion, you'd know that isn't the case at all. 1h jobs don't suck and they don't need to be the best DD in this game.

I'm going to say the same thing that people have been telling me for 10 years when I complained that THF needed more damage. Play a 1H job if you hate 2H jobs that much.

And I won't lie after 10 years of THF being the butt monkey of FFXI 2H tears are delicious.

[dasva]

If you want to build your pt that way and somehow let the fight end before angon wear, of course you can argue that steps aren't useful. How often do you see DRG GEO COR all in 1 pt though.

Well if you want to build your party around a dnc and let the fight drag on long enough to get more than 5 steps on then of course you can argue steps are useful. How often do you see a dnc in any party?

Also the moves I talked about were debuffs they don't have to be in any pt just on the same mob. You also don't need them all that was just going fully loaded. In reality the -70% you can get just from geo and cor both highly used support jobs that you do see in the same pt fairly often should bring any nms def down enough for everyone to cap... and guess what that cor or geo can /dnc and get in there and add another 13% if necessary.

[Alhanelem]

I'm going to say the same thing that people have been telling me for 10 years when I complained that THF needed more damage. Play a 1H job if you hate 2H jobs that much.

And I won't lie after 10 years of THF being the butt monkey of FFXI 2H tears are delicious.

No job should be able to do 40-50k in one shot, whether it's THF or any other, and whether or not they've sucked for however long.

PUP had a one trick pony ability just like that and it got nerfed to hell, so I expect the same will happen here.

[PlumbGame]

No job should be able to do 40-50k in one shot, whether it's THF or any other, and whether or not they've sucked for however long.

PUP had a one trick pony ability just like that and it got nerfed to hell, so I expect the same will happen here.

What content is a THF doing 40-50k that doesn't have some sort of special circumstance? Thfs are not running around doing 50k to everything they see. Sorry.

[Malithar]

No job should be able to do 40-50k in one shot, whether it's THF or any other, and whether or not they've sucked for however long.

That's a Geo. Yeah, sure, retarded lengths were taken, 3000 TP, Bolster, Malaise, Acumen, and used while it was casting. More for the lawls. :P

The design of Thf, and rogue type jobs as a whole in most games, has always been burst damage. They attack fast, though typically for low damage, then then unleash Back Stabs, Ambushes, Sneak Attacks, combos, etc. You have to stop thinking of these instances in the sense of "omg 30-50k damage?!? OP!!" and look at how things have progressed. Some boss type NMs have 1+ million HP, properly executed SCs can do 20-50k+ themselves (though Sam is typically the only job capable/given credit of being capable of this), and perhaps largest of all, the difference between buffed DDs and unbuffed DDs. SE specifically said these changes were going into place to make 1 handed DDs competitive when they are poorly buffed. While I wouldn't advocate for it in game, I'd be interested in seeing spread sheet numbers of how Thf compares to other DDs when buffs are light/non-existent.

It's not so much that these instances are over powering, but rather that's the direction the game is going. All of this content is being made easy with these updates, jobs are being boosted to unprecedented degrees. Whether that's to make way for a new "easy mode" version of the game, or to give us these "fun" damage numbers only to re-balance us around them in the future is still to be seen.

WoW went through something very similar over the years. This last update, they "nerfed" everything, almost like starting over. I don't play so I don't know the details, but they felt that players doing 500k damage in a single attack was meaningless since you stopped paying attention to the numbers past the x00,000, the rest of the 0s were meaningless. Similar to that, when a character's HP was represented in the hundreds of thousands, there was a lot of numbers that didn't matter. So they reset everyone's stats (numbers) to a new meaningful number, and rebalanced around it. Maybe you logged on one day to find you had 15k HP instead of 500k HP, but you were no longer getting hit for 300k either, but maybe 6-7k. Maybe your Fireball now did 10k damage instead of 400k damage, but trash mobs still died in two of them, etc.

These numbers are a representation of power creep though, rather than singular instances of a job being broken. Maybe we'll all be pushing out total DPS like this in the not so distant future, but NMs will regularly have 5+ mil HP and such. I don't really mind, the game has been a sandbox MMO for a good long while now. We'll always have situations where job x, WS y, gear z is considered OP by the player base.

[Afania]

What content is a THF doing 40-50k that doesn't have some sort of special circumstance? Thfs are not running around doing 50k to everything they see. Sorry.

They're not pulling out 40k~50k every WS, but I've seen rudra did 99999 SC. Reset SA TA, do that twice, not a lot of NM can survive that.

That's a Geo. Yeah, sure, retarded lengths were taken, 3000 TP, Bolster, Malaise, Acumen, and used while it was casting. More for the lawls. :P

The design of Thf, and rogue type jobs as a whole in most games, has always been burst damage. They attack fast, though typically for low damage, then then unleash Back Stabs, Ambushes, Sneak Attacks, combos, etc. You have to stop thinking of these instances in the sense of "omg 30-50k damage?!? OP!!" and look at how things have progressed. Some boss type NMs have 1+ million HP, properly executed SCs can do 20-50k+ themselves (though Sam is typically the only job capable/given credit of being capable of this), and perhaps largest of all, the difference between buffed DDs and unbuffed DDs. SE specifically said these changes were going into place to make 1 handed DDs competitive when they are poorly buffed. While I wouldn't advocate for it in game, I'd be interested in seeing spread sheet numbers of how Thf compares to other DDs when buffs are light/non-existent.

It's not so much that these instances are over powering, but rather that's the direction the game is going. All of this content is being made easy with these updates, jobs are being boosted to unprecedented degrees. Whether that's to make way for a new "easy mode" version of the game, or to give us these "fun" damage numbers only to re-balance us around them in the future is still to be seen.

WoW went through something very similar over the years. This last update, they "nerfed" everything, almost like starting over. I don't play so I don't know the details, but they felt that players doing 500k damage in a single attack was meaningless since you stopped paying attention to the numbers past the x00,000, the rest of the 0s were meaningless. Similar to that, when a character's HP was represented in the hundreds of thousands, there was a lot of numbers that didn't matter. So they reset everyone's stats (numbers) to a new meaningful number, and rebalanced around it. Maybe you logged on one day to find you had 15k HP instead of 500k HP, but you were no longer getting hit for 300k either, but maybe 6-7k. Maybe your Fireball now did 10k damage instead of 400k damage, but trash mobs still died in two of them, etc.

These numbers are a representation of power creep though, rather than singular instances of a job being broken. Maybe we'll all be pushing out total DPS like this in the not so distant future, but NMs will regularly have 5+ mil HP and such. I don't really mind, the game has been a sandbox MMO for a good long while now. We'll always have situations where job x, WS y, gear z is considered OP by the player base.

This game isn't wow, the HP/dmg didn't have drastic change for past 10 years, except abyssea era and SoA, and most of the low lv contents are relevant for 10 years for this reason. I won't feel like FFXI is FFXI anymore if we all running in 10k HP doing 50k dmg every WS, and 1 shot everything in older content.

[Malithar]

This game isn't wow, the HP/dmg didn't have drastic change for past 10 years, except abyssea era and SoA, and most of the low lv contents are relevant for 10 years for this reason. I won't feel like FFXI is FFXI anymore if we all running in 10k HP doing 50k dmg every WS, and 1 shot everything in older content.

I'm not comparing it to WoW, just saying the situation they find themselves in is one that WoW just recently went through to an extreme level. That's great that it won't "feel like FFXI" to you, but that's what we're heading for. Throwing on the nostalgia-goggles won't exactly help. Hell, I'm pretty sure I've seen you say the exact same thing to people on FFXIAH or here, that the game has changed, different jobs are capable, new strategies emerged, blahblah. Times change, and for better or worse, that's the direction they're taking the game.

[Byrth]

Rudra's can do 40-50k damage at 3000 TP with SA or TA and good gear + defense down on the monster. It may also require Vajra.

Having one or two melee make a multi-step Darkness skillchain (closed by THF) is currently a good way to do damage. The 99,999 nature of the damage is due to a "new" multiplier that SE added during the last patch. Here's a more thorough explanation: http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:S...llchain_Damage

Basically, you randomly get up to a 1.5x multiplier when you finish the skillchain. So sometimes you'll see freak high skillchains (you got the multiplier) and sometimes not. It's possible that we could force this multiplier if we investigated it more (perhaps by using threnodies and Ninjutsu), but no one has done it yet AFAIK.

[Afania]

I'm not comparing it to WoW, just saying the situation they find themselves in is one that WoW just recently went through to an extreme level. That's great that it won't "feel like FFXI" to you, but that's what we're heading for. Throwing on the nostalgia-goggles won't exactly help. Hell, I'm pretty sure I've seen you say the exact same thing to people on FFXIAH or here, that the game has changed, different jobs are capable, new strategies emerged, blahblah. Times change, and for better or worse, that's the direction they're taking the game.

I'm fine with SE taking the game to a different direction, as long as it has a direction. Atm it feels like SE just randomly buff underdog jobs to OP lv to please ppl with those jobs. What is the role of DNC? Shouldn't it be a support DD that does more dmg with steps+ dmg from itself? If that's their direction, make the buff or other support aspect of the job more useful, not buff the dmg and make it stronger than DRK WAR.

If SE wants to make X job solo job, then make that job very good at solo, and give them some content that shines. If SE wants to make Y job support DD hybrid, then don't turn that job into a DD job.

Now it's like: X job is good at solo so it doesn't get invite in group content, Y job is a support DD hybrid so it doesn't get invite when there's support in pt, let's make every job in this game top DD job then!"

Sounds like no direction. A few months ago they didn't say a thing about their plan to make THF DNC BLU top DD in this game, I guess the direction has changed. It happens a lot recently, the design direction of job point system changed, and the design direction of 1h job changed. It just....change a lot. I suppose I should just QQ for my jobs in this game and hope for a random OP buff as well.

[dasva]

No job should be able to do 40-50k in one shot, whether it's THF or any other, and whether or not they've sucked for however long.

Here's lolbst with a magical ws that has mediocre stats when they don't even have access to hardly any mab




Also already said but need context on setup and content. And everyone can do 50k plus on the right content. Heck I was doing 60k+ before we even got to 99