Useless spells

[Dale]

Let me start by saying I'm sorry that this post might be a bit long and from a while back. I took a break from the forums for a short time so I fell behind, that said there are some things I want to reply to so~ I hope you'll forgive me replying to old posts.

Not really. Assuming you have 5/5 Phalanx II both spells cap at -35 damage, the difference being that one can be cast on others while the other is self only. The second tier also scales in a way that makes it much more powerful than the original until you hit 300+ Enhancing Magic, at which point they even out. The upgrade II gets is the ability to cast on other players, the only real flaw with it is the lack of ability to use Accession with it, which isn't an issue since the original's potency is the same as the second. I admit all of this requires 5/5 merits, but that's how powerful the spell should be anyways, as with any merit spell.

There's a difference between saying that having something weakens a class, and saying that the something the class has is weaker than it should be, or that the something is weaker than another something that isn't able to be stacked with the original. Enspell IIs do make RDM a stronger job than it would be without them. That said, they're weaker than our original Enspells in most situations. If I'm in a situation I need magic accuracy enough to lose my DMG for the sake of my(-10?) elemental resist I'm likely using a staff for the additional magic accuracy anyways and won't hit anything with my Enspell to begin with. It's just not practical to use Enspell IIs in most situations, even single wielding they're almost always worse than the originals due to how the Enhancing Magic calculation works and our ease of stacking Double Attack thanks to Temper.

Changing the IIs to be a real upgrade, a real second tier, wouldn't in any way make us overpowered. It would only serve to make the spells more useful and at the same time make them more sensical. I can't for the life of me understand why Enhancing Magic should be calculated on hit when the originals weren't, I can think of no reason that this is necessary or defensible. That alone feels like more of a glitch than a feature, and yet it's never been addressed.

In either case, the last thing I want to say on this is that I'm a large advocate for RDMs meleeing. We're not exactly weak, but we are left behind by most other front line jobs quite easily. Even in our best possible gear I have a hard time keeping up with your average DDs thanks to our flaws. We have a lack of gear other jobs get in the DD department, often times being left with very random pieces, and last I knew our best set was simply a random mix up of different gear from MPNMs and Delve bosses where we got thrown a bone. When it comes to actual sets or powerful pieces of gear in general for light DDs we're left off completely, which often kills our ability to keep up. One fairly unique way to make us keep up and stand out would be more powerful Enspells that help us match up to other DDs. Two simple changes to Enspell IIs would make them viable and powerful enough to fulfill this role. It wouldn't make RDM overpowered in any sense, would make the elemental resistance reduction more useful as there wouldn't be a cost associated with it that often times doesn't seem worth it, and it would remove one more complaint people have about RDM. Speaking of which...

There are many issues to complain about, and I admit this isn't one of the larger ones, but it's something that does need brought up. One need not be content with mediocrity simply because there is something even more mediocre to complain about in the same breath. I hate our merits too, but we've talked about that issue so much I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about other issues as well. All of that said, I must ask, how is the mechanic of Enspell IIs calculating our Enhancing Magic on hit rather than on cast "good"? It's a flaw I can't see as being defensible.

I skimmed this and I'll just make a few comments.

Phalanx 2 is not a pure upgrade of phalanx 1. It just isn't. Yes you can merit it to make the spell more effective. And it might scale better at lower enhancing skill. I wouldn't know because mine is capped and was over 300 before I even leveled this job. But none of that changes what I said. It is a second tier spell that offers another way to use the spell rather just being a straight up pure upgrade. It was just an example I was giving to show that the en-spells were not the only spells that behaved that way.

And Red Mage should not be equal in melee to other front line melee jobs. That would be silly and unbalanced if they were. Some of the Red Mages on this forum are expecting too much, and being unreasonable in their requests. And complaining about our en spells 2 and Gain spells and saying as a result SE has somehow screwed this job seems like exaggerated nitpicking to me.

So I think Raydeus is right about this. If this job does have any serious problems, the ones you and the OP are talking about aren't them. And I think you and the OP might want to think about rolling an actual front line melee character if that's the kind of job you want to be. Perhaps a Monk or a Samurai. Because rolling a support class and being discontent you can't do as much damage as a Damage Dealing class doesn't make any sense to me and this is likely not to change. Because SE is never going to give Red Mage some super En Spell that puts us on par with other jobs in terms of melee damage.

[Demonjustin]

Phalanx 2 is not a pure upgrade of phalanx 1. It just isn't. Yes you can merit it to make the spell more effective. And it might scale better at lower enhancing skill. I wouldn't know because mine is capped and was over 300 before I even leveled this job. But none of that changes what I said. It is a second tier spell that offers another way to use the spell rather just being a straight up pure upgrade. It was just an example I was giving to show that the en-spells were not the only spells that behaved that way.

But it was a flawed example. As I stated, Phalanx II is the exact same at 5/5 as the original spell except for it's ability to be cast on other players. This is an upgrade for that reason, a pure one, as it has no drawbacks that are forced upon it in return for that benefit. If at 5/5 it only hit -30 while the original spell hit -35 then ok, point taken, it's not a pure upgrade, but this simply isn't the case.

And Red Mage should not be equal in melee to other front line melee jobs. That would be silly and unbalanced if they were. Some of the Red Mages on this forum are expecting too much, and being unreasonable in their requests. And complaining about our en spells 2 and Gain spells and saying as a result SE has somehow screwed this job seems like exaggerated nitpicking to me.

I believe you misunderstood my thoughts on our melee. I in no way shape or form expect nor want RDM's melee to be comparable to a MNK or SAM. I just want to be able to do enough damage so that in equal leveled gear I can perform at, say, 80% of their DMG output. The best possible geared RDM vs the best possible SAM shouldn't result in the RDM being behind by more than 20% in my opinion. What I was trying to point out is that our largest issue when it comes to melee is our gear, we're left out of most light DD gear. One way to supplement this issue would be to make our Enspell IIs more powerful. It would allow us to have a more solidified role on the front lines via our elemental damage per hit and thus make us a bit more unique than your normal DD. This is far from a super Enspell, I'm not talking about giving us Rainemard level Enspells here. I don't think capping at 60 damage a hit on each swing and lowering a mobs resistance without sacrifice is overpowered, how do you come to the conclusion it is?

So I think Raydeus is right about this. If this job does have any serious problems, the ones you and the OP are talking about aren't them. And I think you and the OP might want to think about rolling an actual front line melee character if that's the kind of job you want to be. Perhaps a Monk or a Samurai. Because rolling a support class and being discontent you can't do as much damage as a Damage Dealing class doesn't make any sense to me and this is likely not to change. Because SE is never going to give Red Mage some super En Spell that puts us on par with other jobs in terms of melee damage.

There are many issues. One should not simply ignore the smaller issues simply because they're smaller. In the end all issues need be presented, the larger ones are simply the ones you hit with the hammer repeatedly rather than once and leaving them to rest. Threads that bring up Enspells are far and few between, they only really involve RDM, and that's about the extent of it. Compare that to the number of threads that on a monthly basis are either created or posted in that mention merits. I agree, we have larger issues than this, but that fact alone doesn't mean we should ignore this in favor of those more important issues which are already being discussed.

[Dale]

But it was a flawed example. As I stated, Phalanx II is the exact same at 5/5 as the original spell except for it's ability to be cast on other players. This is an upgrade for that reason, a pure one, as it has no drawbacks that are forced upon it in return for that benefit. If at 5/5 it only hit -30 while the original spell hit -35 then ok, point taken, it's not a pure upgrade, but this simply isn't the case.
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Really? Some may consider the fact it requires merits a drawback. That's points you could have put elsewhere. And you even pointed out another possible drawback in your previous post when you said it couldn't be used with accession.

So it wasn't a flawed example. At least not to me. But you can think it was flawed if you want. That is your right But I was and still am every comfortable making the comparison.

I use phalanx 1 on my Red Mage all the time. So Phalanx II certainly wasn't a pure upgrade for me at least.