Useless spells

[Bebekeke]

i say lolWAR cuz any DD other than SAM is lol ; ; this is not so much of an opinion as it is just the way the current mechanics of the game are.

Yeah... lolRNG!

[Demonjustin]

En-spells are the only spells in the game I can think of that have a second tier that doesn't always beat the first. When you learn a second tier to a spell it is normally a pure upgrade, becoming better in every way than the original. En-spells have two spells that do similar and yet very different things in the end, which results in them situationally trading off. It's a very weird design for them, unlike anything else in the game I can think of in that regard. Honestly, En-spells shouldn't be this way though, IIs should be a pure upgrade, not a situationally superior enhancement that only serves to make us weaker as a whole when we already need as much as we can get in melee damage on the front lines as it is.

[Dale]

En-spells are the only spells in the game I can think of that have a second tier that doesn't always beat the first. When you learn a second tier to a spell it is normally a pure upgrade, becoming better in every way than the original. En-spells have two spells that do similar and yet very different things in the end, which results in them situationally trading off. It's a very weird design for them, unlike anything else in the game I can think of in that regard. Honestly, En-spells shouldn't be this way though, IIs should be a pure upgrade, not a situationally superior enhancement that only serves to make us weaker as a whole when we already need as much as we can get in melee damage on the front lines as it is.

Another example: phalanx 2 isn't a pure upgrade from phalanx 1. It just serves a different purpose, allowing us to cast on other party members. So I don't see why a new tier always needs to be a pure upgrade. In fact I think it's better that it just allows a different usage of the spell, that way neither spell becomes useless or obsolete.

Also, considering the vast amount of support utility this class has now, I think our melee damage is fine. So I don't share your opinion that we are weak. Nor do I understand why you feel the tier2 en spells make us weaker. They just provide us with a way to reduce resistances while at the same time adding some damage to our melee attacks. It doesn't weaken the class.

[Raydeus]

Sorry guys but you just don't know how to play RDM if Enspell I&II mechanics throw you off like that, same with Gain spells, if you don't know how each stat affects you then you don't know why it is such an advantage to be able to chose a stat to boost at will.

What you should be complaining about instead is how badly RDM spells scale with skill and how low the caps are set on them, also about how the merit spells should be scrolls instead with merits used to either enhance them directly or generally.

But the mechanics of spells are good, you just need to learn2play and to adapt to situations.

[Bebekeke]

T2 enspells have a great utility in Monstrosity, if nothing else

[Zekander]

Few spells have no use whatsoever, one could argue that tier 2 enspells would be useful to a red mage between levels 50 and 70 that is using a subjob other then war, nin, or dnc, but this is such a narrow use that it renders them effectively useless.

I know it's easy these days to forget that there are levels between 30 and 99, you may notice from my character info that I am currently in the process of leveling RDM. Old school. I'm fighting VT-IT mobs with trust npcs and I'm having fun doing it. The entire point of leveling up is to grow stronger, to get better equipment and better spells. This inevitably makes old equipment and spells obsolete. We pretty much all agree that tier 2 enspells are currently not better in general then tier 1s and it just frustrates me knowing that when I hit 50 and got Tier 2 enspells I was getting a side-grade at best.

I suppose success can be measured in inches.

[Dale]

Few spells have no use whatsoever, one could argue that tier 2 enspells would be useful to a red mage between levels 50 and 70 that is using a subjob other then war, nin, or dnc, but this is such a narrow use that it renders them effectively useless.

I know it's easy these days to forget that there are levels between 30 and 99, you may notice from my character info that I am currently in the process of leveling RDM. Old school. I'm fighting VT-IT mobs with trust npcs and I'm having fun doing it. The entire point of leveling up is to grow stronger, to get better equipment and better spells. This inevitably makes old equipment and spells obsolete. We pretty much all agree that tier 2 enspells are currently not better in general then tier 1s and it just frustrates me knowing that when I hit 50 and got Tier 2 enspells I was getting a side-grade at best.

I suppose success can be measured in inches.

I don't understand why you think being able to lower an enemy's resistance is only useful while leveling up. But you are entitled to your opinion. Since I already let me views about the En-Spells 2 be known I'll just leave it at that.

I just wanted to let you know that as a Red Mage you have a lot of powerful spell upgrades in the way you prefer to look forward to. Distract 2, Frazzle 2, Haste 2, Flurry 2, Gravity 2, Shell V to name a few. So I wouldn't let the tier 2 en spells frustrate you. You have plenty of spell upgrades in the pipe line. Not to mention you just got Refresh 2, which is about as nice of a spell upgrade someone can ask for.

[Zekander]

I don't understand why you think being able to lower an enemy's resistance is only useful while leveling up. But you are entitled to your opinion. Since I already let me views about the En-Spells 2 be known I'll just leave it at that.

I just wanted to let you know that as a Red Mage you have a lot of powerful spell upgrades in the way you prefer to look forward to. Distract 2, Frazzle 2, Haste 2, Flurry 2, Gravity 2, Shell V to name a few. So I wouldn't let the tier 2 en spells frustrate you. You have plenty of spell upgrades in the pipe line. Not to mention you just got Refresh 2, which is about as nice of a spell upgrade someone can ask for.

I haven't even mentioned the lowered resistance effect because of two reasons. Firstly and most important the relationships between resistances were not well thought out at all; EX Enthunder II lowers resistance to earth, thunder is strong against water, which generally has no special resistance to earth, so you aren't aiming at the enemy's weakness to improve the damage of your enspell. Now this would be acceptable if the element were at least neutral, but earth is generally resistant to thunder so in order to reduce the resistance of an earth based mob you are forced to use an element that is weak against the target you are attacking, severely reducing the damage from the enspell. Again, you could argue that you aren't helping yourself with the spell, you are helping other members of your party, but to have such an obvious defect just goes to show how far out of the way SE was going to really screw RDM with these spells. The second reason is that any mob you would actually need the resistance effect for is going to be incredibly strong anyway and both difficult for a RDM to hit in melee and dangerous to be near anyway.

As for the other spells I really haven't had to use any of them so far, I eat sushi and my accuracy is fine against the mobs I fight with double march from Ulmia so I haven't needed Distract. I merited my enfeebling magic skill so my magic accuracy is good even in melee gear so I haven't had to use frazzle. I understand that these spells are much more useful in a real party, but that won't happen till 99 so they aren't really something to look forward to yet. Does Gravity 2 even have a use anymore? They removed the evasion down effect from it and I've heard that most things are immune to gravity now anyway.

[Dale]

I haven't even mentioned the lowered resistance effect because of two reasons. Firstly and most important the relationships between resistances were not well thought out at all; EX Enthunder II lowers resistance to earth, thunder is strong against water, which generally has no special resistance to earth, so you aren't aiming at the enemy's weakness to improve the damage of your enspell. Now this would be acceptable if the element were at least neutral, but earth is generally resistant to thunder so in order to reduce the resistance of an earth based mob you are forced to use an element that is weak against the target you are attacking, severely reducing the damage from the enspell. Again, you could argue that you aren't helping yourself with the spell, you are helping other members of your party, but to have such an obvious defect just goes to show how far out of the way SE was going to really screw RDM with these spells. The second reason is that any mob you would actually need the resistance effect for is going to be incredibly strong anyway and both difficult for a RDM to hit in melee and dangerous to be near anyway.

As for the other spells I really haven't had to use any of them so far, I eat sushi and my accuracy is fine against the mobs I fight with double march from Ulmia so I haven't needed Distract. I merited my enfeebling magic skill so my magic accuracy is good even in melee gear so I haven't had to use frazzle. I understand that these spells are much more useful in a real party, but that won't happen till 99 so they aren't really something to look forward to yet. Does Gravity 2 even have a use anymore? They removed the evasion down effect from it and I've heard that most things are immune to gravity now anyway.

I'm still not following your logic. Enfeebles are meant for difficult monsters. That is the whole point as to why you would need to enfeeble them to begin with. And take it from me, distract II does indeed help when I am fighting very tough monsters in the gates and need to land my melee attacks. The fact you use a support trust eat sushi and fight easier monsters you can hit more easily doesn't make these spells useless or mean SE has somehow screwed us.

And helping members of your party helps you as well. It's a team effort. And you could party before you are level 99. That's just a choice you make.

Gravity is good for when you need to slow the enemy down to escape or kite. Many NMs are immune to it, but it still works on many things.

And you can't talk about En Spells 2 without mentioning the lower resistance function. That is part what the spell does. And losing a little bit of damage on your melee swings is worth it if it helps you land important spells you are having trouble sticking.

I would suggest going out and fighting more difficult monsters. With trusts it is possible to chain Very/Incredibly Toughs and it might give you more of an appreciation of what the Red Mage has to offer. Because it is a powerful support class and can turn a losing party into a winning party.

[Zekander]

Few spells have no use whatsoever, one could argue that tier 2 enspells would be useful to a red mage between levels 50 and 70 that is using a subjob other then war, nin, or dnc, but this is such a narrow use that it renders them effectively useless.

I know it's easy these days to forget that there are levels between 30 and 99, you may notice from my character info that I am currently in the process of leveling RDM. Old school. I'm fighting VT-IT mobs with trust npcs and I'm having fun doing it. The entire point of leveling up is to grow stronger, to get better equipment and better spells. This inevitably makes old equipment and spells obsolete. We pretty much all agree that tier 2 enspells are currently not better in general then tier 1s and it just frustrates me knowing that when I hit 50 and got Tier 2 enspells I was getting a side-grade at best.

I suppose success can be measured in inches.

I'm not arguing about spells I have no use for in soloing, I'm arguing that tier 2 enspells specifically are poorly designed and effectively useless in the majority of situations, I have absolutely no problems with distract/frazzle/flurry etc. When bad things happen I use Sleep, I know some things are immune, but I haven't fought any yet. And yeah you are right the mobs in the adoulin areas are much stronger, which is why I rarely fight them on my other jobs.