"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Afania]

If this thread has no purpose then I would argue that the entire forums serves no purpose. The point of this thread was to point out a disturbing trend that many people (myself included, obviously) with the devs not paying any attention to what the player base wants and just saying there are no plans for anything that we submit regardless of merit or not. No one is saying that they shouldn't tell us anything, I'm not even saying they shouldn't tell us, "The development team does not currently have plans to..." all we're saying that we'd like to know:
A) An explanation for why things would break the game.
B) Let us know what they do have planned.

Well, I agree that a few suggestions would deserve a reply like A and B, but at least 95% of suggestions don't. Also, just because certain suggestion doesn't break the game, doesn't mean they'd have to follow the suggestion or plan on something.

"May I have double ichor campaign plz!" Suggestion like this only benefits current mythic builders AND ppl play during the campaign. Of course giving out a double ichor campaign doesn't break the game, thus you can't really ask the dev to explain why there double ichor campaign is game breaking or anything. It's also not an in game issue that requires a fix, thus it's also not reasonable to ask the dev what they're planning.

Just because the gamer asked something that's not game breaking, doesn't mean it'd require a fix. Changing a design in game is more than just spending 10 min and write a new code after all.

[FrankReynolds]

Well, I agree that a few suggestions would deserve a reply like A and B, but at least 95% of suggestions don't. Also, just because certain suggestion doesn't break the game, doesn't mean they'd have to follow the suggestion or plan on something.

"May I have double ichor campaign plz!" Suggestion like this only benefits current mythic builders AND ppl play during the campaign. Of course giving out a double ichor campaign doesn't break the game, thus you can't really ask the dev to explain why there double ichor campaign is game breaking or anything. It's also not an in game issue that requires a fix, thus it's also not reasonable to ask the dev what they're planning.

Just because the gamer asked something that's not game breaking, doesn't mean it'd require a fix. Changing a design in game is more than just spending 10 min and write a new code after all.

All the campaigns only benefit people who do the content and people who are playing during the campaign. This example is no different from any other campaign in that respect and requires far less code than some.

[Afania]

All the campaigns only benefit people who do the content and people who are playing during the campaign. This example is no different from any other campaign in that respect and requires far less code than some.

I don't think you get my point, campaigns are just bonus, not an in game issue that requires a fix. It is not a big deal if SE didn't respond properly for requests like this.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think you get my point, campaigns are just bonus, not an in game issue that requires a fix. It is not a big deal if SE didn't respond properly for requests like this.

That's probably because you didn't make that point. The reason people are demanding a response to this thread has nothing to do with campaigns. It has to do with the canned response of "we have no plans..." used in almost every thread that the devs respond to. Which, should be evident because it is in the title of the thread.

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

[Afania]

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

I don't think you get my point....my point is that many jobs are actually very useful in current content, just that nobody /shout for them. Most of the time, the reason why nobody /shout for them is not because the job suck, but ppl don't know what can the job do.

Also WoE isn't "content no one would do", there are more ppl doing WoE than delve if you sea all WoE zones v.s delve zones.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think you get my point....my point is that many jobs are actually very useful in current content, just that nobody /shout for them. Most of the time, the reason why nobody /shout for them is not because the job suck, but ppl don't know what can the job do.

Also WoE isn't "content no one would do", there are more ppl doing WoE than delve if you sea all WoE zones v.s delve zones.

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

[Bebekeke]

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

Basically, the first group to complete X content posts on BG their setup, and from then on, that is the setup that everyone uses. Until someone else joins a PUG created by a person playing a job outside of that cookie cutter setup, and goes back to thye forums saying "ZOMG we just did it with this setup and completed it in half the time!" then nobody will ever shout for other jobs.

It's like RDM stunners, for example.

Delve content was always SCH stunners only.

Always.

So much so that despite the fact that it's now a few months since people have proven that RDM is actually better than SCH at stunning (since haste 2 was released, I assume) it's still very common to see shouts for SCH only.

[Afania]

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

Most of the job excel at something, it's just not in /shout due to several many reasons that's more than job performance.

I'd want a good BLM BLU for events like incursion, but I don't /shout for them because I probably won't get any /tell, even if I doubt it's going to be well geared unless the player is BLM or BLU main, since it's not exactly worth the effort to gear up a less popular job. I don't want to /shout for some unpopular job for 2hr and get someone not geared properly.

That being said, if someone send a /tell saying "My X job has very good gear, I know what I'm doing and I can contribute in event", I would accept it.

Even you admit this isn't job issue, this is community issue. Certain job isn't popular--->nobody /shout for them------>nobody bother to send /tell and get their favorite job into the pt--->nobody gear them properly because it's not worth the effort----->even less leaders bother to /shout for them....the vicious circle continues.


Although SE can make the job actually required(which is different from "can get the job done") to do the event, like what they did to VW proc system. But personally I think VW proc system is the 2nd worst game mechanic in FFXI, second to abyssea proc system. Now that most servers avg 300~600 players on NA time, do you enjoy /shout for 2hr for an unpopular job like NIN RUN DNC just to do an event? I don't.

If jobs aren't required to do the content, every PUG would /shout for easiest PUG setup, or jobs that's the easiest to gear, regardless of the job's performance. There are no way out of this.

If jobs are required to do the content, let's /shout for 2hr for 1 single job to fill up the role.

I'd rather /shout for the easiest setup instead of /shout for 2hr in FFXI any day.

[Xerius]

Well, I agree that a few suggestions would deserve a reply like A and B, but at least 95% of suggestions don't. Also, just because certain suggestion doesn't break the game, doesn't mean they'd have to follow the suggestion or plan on something.

"May I have double ichor campaign plz!" Suggestion like this only benefits current mythic builders AND ppl play during the campaign. Of course giving out a double ichor campaign doesn't break the game, thus you can't really ask the dev to explain why there double ichor campaign is game breaking or anything. It's also not an in game issue that requires a fix, thus it's also not reasonable to ask the dev what they're planning.

Just because the gamer asked something that's not game breaking, doesn't mean it'd require a fix. Changing a design in game is more than just spending 10 min and write a new code after all.

I don't think the issue is the volume of the replies but the quality of them. For the first time in months the Dev Tracker isn't full of "The development team does not currently have plans to..."

I think that's a good thing and no one is saying they need to implement every decent idea but I can only think of one thing in recent history that was brought to their attention that they did change and that's the BLU 'Chance to learn' JP category.

I do realize that it requires a lot of effort to fix a design however, I don't think it's okay for the Dev Team to break the game (like they did with SAM after the WS update) and then just turn a blind eye especially, after pet jobs and magic jobs have been asking for fixes for months now. No one was asking for a WS update and it didn't really solve any problems it actually widened the chasm that made it so only a few jobs were desired for end game.

[Ris]

I do realize that it requires a lot of effort to fix a design however, I don't think it's okay for the Dev Team to break the game (like they did with SAM after the WS update) and then just turn a blind eye especially, after pet jobs and magic jobs have been asking for fixes for months now. No one was asking for a WS update and it didn't really solve any problems it actually widened the chasm that made it so only a few jobs were desired for end game.

Hmm. Sorry if those goes a little off topic, but... could someone ELI5 what's wrong with pet and magic jobs to me? They seem like they would be pretty versatile and reasonably capable of clearing endgame content...

Is it just that people min/max and saving that extra minute on a fight means jobs that are slightly less efficient don't get invited, or is it some deeper flaw with the mechanics of those jobs?