Solo Accomplishments, Party Barriers, and Enhancing the Community

[Mitruya]

{Yes. please} to any or all those DRG suggestions mentioned above. As everyone has said, everything is "RNG-only" or "MNK-only" now; after finally getting an Upukirex I don't even get to play DRG for much of anything.

[Afania]

I literally just posted a long response to the "Can't buff DRG because Mythic DRG would be too OP" BS that has been floating around.. but somehow I was logged off so I lost the whole thing.

Quick version.

Mythic DRG is not OP currently. The reason you make a mythic is so that you can be a competitive DD in end-game situations where you were miles behind before.

If you read previous discussion, no one said Mythic DRG being OP. It's more about none mythic DRG's output is so low that if you buff none mythic DRG to SAM lv, mythic DRG will be way too OP.

For example, if you have A job doing 600 DPS, B job doing 300 DPS, B job with mythic doing 500 DPS. Buffing B job from 300 DPS to 600 means 100% increase, that means B job with mythic would ended up doing 1000 DPS.

I value game balance(although I never understand why'd SE break game balance with last update) more than just blindly hand out every job increased DPS.

I didn't say anything about Mythic DRG being OP currently, I only said it WILL be OP if they're buffing none mythic DRG to current SAM level of dmg. However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

[Malithar]

However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

[detlef]

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

It's not like we can't appreciate certain aspects of each person's style. It's okay to want greater balance while still appreciating what Matsui has brought to the table.

[Olor]

balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

I dispute this. I am very happy with all the quality of life stuff happening now, but at least we used to have proc systems that necessitated a slightly larger variety of jobs than are used now. People can hate on voidwatch's proc system all they want but that was and is the only end game content we've ever seen that actually brought most jobs and made them feel like they were contributing.

I am hopeful the devs can improve balance but right now my BST is just utterly useless. My blu is almost utterly useless, and my THF isn't even any good for Treasure Hunter anymore since we get chests and other nonsense that makes it pointless.

We just had a WS update that gave SAM extremely OVERPOWERED WS compared to other jobs. Like, SAM was weaponskilling just fine, thanks... why did they get a boost to be doing 15K damage while BST is lucky to get 5K+? That's asinine.

[Afania]

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

Why can't we ask for both though. Also the balance among jobs in Tanaka era wasn't much worse than what we have now. Abyssea difficulty+ MNK OP issue and current endgame difficulty + SAM and SC OP issue is clearly just bad design all over.

[Reichleiu]

If you read previous discussion, no one said Mythic DRG being OP. It's more about none mythic DRG's output is so low that if you buff none mythic DRG to SAM lv, mythic DRG will be way too OP.

For example, if you have A job doing 600 DPS, B job doing 300 DPS, B job with mythic doing 500 DPS. Buffing B job from 300 DPS to 600 means 100% increase, that means B job with mythic would ended up doing 1000 DPS.

I value game balance(although I never understand why'd SE break game balance with last update) more than just blindly hand out every job increased DPS.

I didn't say anything about Mythic DRG being OP currently, I only said it WILL be OP if they're buffing none mythic DRG to current SAM level of dmg. However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

Really.. you took one piece of what I said to prove your point instead of taking the whole thing as the entire argument and I'm the one that needs to read through the previous 5 pages of discussion? That little bit about Mythic DRG not being OP currently was in response to someone mentioning Normal DRG being a 3 and mythic DRG being a 7, where other DDs are a 5. Well.. that would make it sound like Ryu DRG is OP. Really Mythic DRG is between a 5 and 7 and SAM without a mythic is a 6 or 7 depending on content too... Relic RNG is a 7.. the list goes on. Mythic SAM is probably a 9 if we use this scale.

They buffed SAM, just SAM in general, not mythic SAM. Now Mythic SAM is "Too OP". Mythic DRG doesn't even have the same output on modern content that a non-mythic sam has after this current buff. Let me give you an example.. I have pretty much a perfect Drakesbane set, just missing HQ feet instead of NQ feet (Hrafn). I even went so far as to spreadsheet and parse out whether or not gearing for capped dDex in modern content was better, turns out it was. I did a Tojil run with a non-mythic 119 Masa SAM the other day. Just on tojil, I was 50k ahead of him after piercing phase while keeping AM3 on the entire time. By the end of the fight he was 20k ahead of me! That means that just during double damage phase he was able to make up 70k+ damage. We both blew the monk out of the water, but non-mythic SAM should not be putting up those numbers. Before this update that wouldn't have been even close to possible. Before this update I could use Upukirex and not fall behind more than 10k if the SAM wasn't using Namas or Apex during piercing.

When my Mythic Drakesbane is only doing 8k during double damage phase and any Frankie Fudo SAM with a Tsumumaru can spam his WS for 14-17k during his phase without removing the aura, there is a major issue there.

DRG received practically nothing this last update. Stardiver and Drakes are still king and they are lightyears behind other DD WSs. Buffing non-mythic DRGs would increase how strong Mythic DRG is.. but only to the point that it could be competitive with mythic SAM in its current form, which is where it was pre-adoulin anyway. This argument that buffing DRG would make Ryu owners so OP that people would only shout for them is totally bogus.

Unless something is completely neutral or weak to piercing, DRG, even with a mythic, falls well behind in modern FFXI. This needs to be addressed.

[WoW]

No clue how the bst and jug combined will surpass a sam in the dd-department (Non-pet dds). Sams gain tp rather quickly and hit like a truck after the recent update. Jug pets are the polar opposite. They are restricted to a lame ready meter and gain tp at a slow rate. Jugs ready moves are also quite weak. Imo, their ready moves would have to be extremely powerful to compensate for the lack of a tp bar or the slow tp gain; unless they enhance the pet's tp gain, but the ready meter would restrict them in terms of ws usage regardless.

The only scenario were a bst could out-dd a sam is if the bst and/or pet are severely overpowered. A sam is spamming ws, hence they ws more often than a pet/master. The duo will need to gain tp at a decent rate, because a sam doing tachi's every few seconds is still superior to a powerful pet/master. The good ready moves usually cost 2 or three charges, hence the sam would still top this combo. I have no idea how this combo could top a sam, lol, a mnk? Yes, but not a sam.

[Afania]

Really.. you took one piece of what I said to prove your point instead of taking the whole thing as the entire argument and I'm the one that needs to read through the previous 5 pages of discussion? That little bit about Mythic DRG not being OP currently was in response to someone mentioning Normal DRG being a 3 and mythic DRG being a 7, where other DDs are a 5. Well.. that would make it sound like Ryu DRG is OP. Really Mythic DRG is between a 5 and 7 and SAM without a mythic is a 6 or 7 depending on content too... Relic RNG is a 7.. the list goes on. Mythic SAM is probably a 9 if we use this scale.

They buffed SAM, just SAM in general, not mythic SAM. Now Mythic SAM is "Too OP". Mythic DRG doesn't even have the same output on modern content that a non-mythic sam has after this current buff. Let me give you an example.. I have pretty much a perfect Drakesbane set, just missing HQ feet instead of NQ feet (Hrafn). I even went so far as to spreadsheet and parse out whether or not gearing for capped dDex in modern content was better, turns out it was. I did a Tojil run with a non-mythic 119 Masa SAM the other day. Just on tojil, I was 50k ahead of him after piercing phase while keeping AM3 on the entire time. By the end of the fight he was 20k ahead of me! That means that just during double damage phase he was able to make up 70k+ damage. We both blew the monk out of the water, but non-mythic SAM should not be putting up those numbers. Before this update that wouldn't have been even close to possible. Before this update I could use Upukirex and not fall behind more than 10k if the SAM wasn't using Namas or Apex during piercing.

When my Mythic Drakesbane is only doing 8k during double damage phase and any Frankie Fudo SAM with a Tsumumaru can spam his WS for 14-17k during his phase without removing the aura, there is a major issue there.

DRG received practically nothing this last update. Stardiver and Drakes are still king and they are lightyears behind other DD WSs. Buffing non-mythic DRGs would increase how strong Mythic DRG is.. but only to the point that it could be competitive with mythic SAM in its current form, which is where it was pre-adoulin anyway. This argument that buffing DRG would make Ryu owners so OP that people would only shout for them is totally bogus.

Unless something is completely neutral or weak to piercing, DRG, even with a mythic, falls well behind in modern FFXI. This needs to be addressed.

I'd say before update mythic DRG was roughly on same tier as other mainstream DD such as vere MNK, but below koga. After update it's probably behind avg SAM. It wasn't OP before update and it certainly isn't OP now. I was just saying it MAY get OP if SE buffed DRG and do it wrong. How'd I know they ended up buffing SAM and do it even more wrong - -

If anything, I'm against the design decision of last update if that makes you happy. IMO, it's a terribly executed update not just broke the game balance with SAM and SC dmg. What's the point to create content ILV128 content when SAM can trio box it? What's the point to solve merit WS issue by making Fudo way too OP? What's the point to buff 1h job and SAM still being the most OP job?

The worst part is, after Matsui became producer, they tend to not to use "nerf" as a tool to achieve game balance, because players emotionally hates nerf and loves buff so they want to please the player, even if the nerf hate is irrational. So they see everyone MNK everything, they buff SAM and now SAM being too OP. In order to get other jobs to catch up, they need to buff other jobs like WAR DRG to same lv of output, leaving content ILV128 no difficulty. Doing content lv 128 at lv 119 cap with 1 character+ 2 mules or killing it in 15~20 min with 6 ppl doesn't really fit the definition of fun, IMO.

You can praise quality of life improvement, or more frequent update, but it doesn't change the fact that this update is just full of wrong when it comes to balance between jobs and content difficulty.

[Tennotsukai]

I wonder if SE is going to do anything for blu to help that job acquire party invites. I feel we're just as bad in shape as some other jobs.