Solo Accomplishments, Party Barriers, and Enhancing the Community

[Reichleiu]

I literally just posted a long response to the "Can't buff DRG because Mythic DRG would be too OP" BS that has been floating around.. but somehow I was logged off so I lost the whole thing.

Quick version.

Mythic DRG is not OP currently. The reason you make a mythic is so that you can be a competitive DD in end-game situations where you were miles behind before.

SAM, mythic or otherwise, is the most broken job in the game right now spamming Fudos for 11-14k in end-game. Mythic DRG, comparatively, is doing 5-10k Drakesbanes with an extreme lack of crit rate due to lack of current crit rate gear and uncapped dDex against modern content. Thats not even mentioning the attack penalty, and 50% STR mod.

Mythic DRG is not even close to as good as it was pre-adoulin.

DRG needs help.. it suffers mostly from not having any self-sustaining offensive abilities other than 2 jumps. (I say 2 because the other ones are not used nearly as often)

While I disagree with Ophannus, as some of his fixes outside of the piercing trait seem a bit OP, there is plenty you could do to buff DRG without making Ryu too overpowered. For instance...

1. Add an attack boosting ability that is not as strong percentage wise as berserk or soul eater. (It would have to be very mild but noticeable)
2. Split the jump timers so DRG can use ALL of their jumps. (Not sure why SE hasn't done this yet tbh)
3. Make it so I can choose whether or not my Wyvern uses ele breaths, or add physical special abilities to my wyvern based on the item lvl of my weapon. (Most annoying issue is seeing my Pet stop attack to use some breath that does less damage than its NQ attack) Honestly.. just fix the Wyvern in general.
5. Make it so my wyvern CANNOT DIE. (High lv Jumps are useless without it)
4. Fix Drakesbane by either removing the att penalty, increasing its crit chance, increasing the mod.. but only do one of these things.
5. Remove the native piercing resistance that EVERY monster that is not weak to piercing has. (This will never happen because THF and DNC would instantly be to top DDs in the game.)

You don't have to do all of these things to DRG, but doing 1 or two would fix the job without making it too OP.

Even if you made Ryu the most OP weapon in the game, it still would not become a requirement for end-game content. Anyone who thinks this will happen is living in a fantasy.

Bottom line, most DRG do not have a mythic and never will. How about all of the Relic DRGs that don't get to do much because X job is better than them? Ignoring the 99% because you are afraid of making 1% of the DRG population a little better than other DDs is extremely shortsighted. DRG has needed a tweak for 10 years now and will be lucky to get one any time soon.

I was one of the DRGs that refused to play a different DD job and just rolled with what I had until I finished my mythic. Been DRG main since 2003. It was was torture but I never quit. Nobody should have to be forced to play other jobs because players are too afraid that 1% of the players playing that job with be broken if it gets a buff.

[Afania]

I literally just posted a long response to the "Can't buff DRG because Mythic DRG would be too OP" BS that has been floating around.. but somehow I was logged off so I lost the whole thing.

Quick version.

Mythic DRG is not OP currently. The reason you make a mythic is so that you can be a competitive DD in end-game situations where you were miles behind before.

If you read previous discussion, no one said Mythic DRG being OP. It's more about none mythic DRG's output is so low that if you buff none mythic DRG to SAM lv, mythic DRG will be way too OP.

For example, if you have A job doing 600 DPS, B job doing 300 DPS, B job with mythic doing 500 DPS. Buffing B job from 300 DPS to 600 means 100% increase, that means B job with mythic would ended up doing 1000 DPS.

I value game balance(although I never understand why'd SE break game balance with last update) more than just blindly hand out every job increased DPS.

I didn't say anything about Mythic DRG being OP currently, I only said it WILL be OP if they're buffing none mythic DRG to current SAM level of dmg. However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

[Malithar]

However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

[detlef]

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

It's not like we can't appreciate certain aspects of each person's style. It's okay to want greater balance while still appreciating what Matsui has brought to the table.

[Olor]

balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

I dispute this. I am very happy with all the quality of life stuff happening now, but at least we used to have proc systems that necessitated a slightly larger variety of jobs than are used now. People can hate on voidwatch's proc system all they want but that was and is the only end game content we've ever seen that actually brought most jobs and made them feel like they were contributing.

I am hopeful the devs can improve balance but right now my BST is just utterly useless. My blu is almost utterly useless, and my THF isn't even any good for Treasure Hunter anymore since we get chests and other nonsense that makes it pointless.

We just had a WS update that gave SAM extremely OVERPOWERED WS compared to other jobs. Like, SAM was weaponskilling just fine, thanks... why did they get a boost to be doing 15K damage while BST is lucky to get 5K+? That's asinine.

[Afania]

I'd take Matsui's style any day over a decade of Tanaka running this game into the ground with piss poor production and development, 2-3 month updates that lacked content, and a balance among the jobs much worse than what we have now.

Why can't we ask for both though. Also the balance among jobs in Tanaka era wasn't much worse than what we have now. Abyssea difficulty+ MNK OP issue and current endgame difficulty + SAM and SC OP issue is clearly just bad design all over.

[Reichleiu]

If you read previous discussion, no one said Mythic DRG being OP. It's more about none mythic DRG's output is so low that if you buff none mythic DRG to SAM lv, mythic DRG will be way too OP.

For example, if you have A job doing 600 DPS, B job doing 300 DPS, B job with mythic doing 500 DPS. Buffing B job from 300 DPS to 600 means 100% increase, that means B job with mythic would ended up doing 1000 DPS.

I value game balance(although I never understand why'd SE break game balance with last update) more than just blindly hand out every job increased DPS.

I didn't say anything about Mythic DRG being OP currently, I only said it WILL be OP if they're buffing none mythic DRG to current SAM level of dmg. However, it probably doesn't matter considering SE no longer value balance that much with last update. Typical Matsui style since Abyssea era.

Really.. you took one piece of what I said to prove your point instead of taking the whole thing as the entire argument and I'm the one that needs to read through the previous 5 pages of discussion? That little bit about Mythic DRG not being OP currently was in response to someone mentioning Normal DRG being a 3 and mythic DRG being a 7, where other DDs are a 5. Well.. that would make it sound like Ryu DRG is OP. Really Mythic DRG is between a 5 and 7 and SAM without a mythic is a 6 or 7 depending on content too... Relic RNG is a 7.. the list goes on. Mythic SAM is probably a 9 if we use this scale.

They buffed SAM, just SAM in general, not mythic SAM. Now Mythic SAM is "Too OP". Mythic DRG doesn't even have the same output on modern content that a non-mythic sam has after this current buff. Let me give you an example.. I have pretty much a perfect Drakesbane set, just missing HQ feet instead of NQ feet (Hrafn). I even went so far as to spreadsheet and parse out whether or not gearing for capped dDex in modern content was better, turns out it was. I did a Tojil run with a non-mythic 119 Masa SAM the other day. Just on tojil, I was 50k ahead of him after piercing phase while keeping AM3 on the entire time. By the end of the fight he was 20k ahead of me! That means that just during double damage phase he was able to make up 70k+ damage. We both blew the monk out of the water, but non-mythic SAM should not be putting up those numbers. Before this update that wouldn't have been even close to possible. Before this update I could use Upukirex and not fall behind more than 10k if the SAM wasn't using Namas or Apex during piercing.

When my Mythic Drakesbane is only doing 8k during double damage phase and any Frankie Fudo SAM with a Tsumumaru can spam his WS for 14-17k during his phase without removing the aura, there is a major issue there.

DRG received practically nothing this last update. Stardiver and Drakes are still king and they are lightyears behind other DD WSs. Buffing non-mythic DRGs would increase how strong Mythic DRG is.. but only to the point that it could be competitive with mythic SAM in its current form, which is where it was pre-adoulin anyway. This argument that buffing DRG would make Ryu owners so OP that people would only shout for them is totally bogus.

Unless something is completely neutral or weak to piercing, DRG, even with a mythic, falls well behind in modern FFXI. This needs to be addressed.

[Afania]

Really.. you took one piece of what I said to prove your point instead of taking the whole thing as the entire argument and I'm the one that needs to read through the previous 5 pages of discussion? That little bit about Mythic DRG not being OP currently was in response to someone mentioning Normal DRG being a 3 and mythic DRG being a 7, where other DDs are a 5. Well.. that would make it sound like Ryu DRG is OP. Really Mythic DRG is between a 5 and 7 and SAM without a mythic is a 6 or 7 depending on content too... Relic RNG is a 7.. the list goes on. Mythic SAM is probably a 9 if we use this scale.

They buffed SAM, just SAM in general, not mythic SAM. Now Mythic SAM is "Too OP". Mythic DRG doesn't even have the same output on modern content that a non-mythic sam has after this current buff. Let me give you an example.. I have pretty much a perfect Drakesbane set, just missing HQ feet instead of NQ feet (Hrafn). I even went so far as to spreadsheet and parse out whether or not gearing for capped dDex in modern content was better, turns out it was. I did a Tojil run with a non-mythic 119 Masa SAM the other day. Just on tojil, I was 50k ahead of him after piercing phase while keeping AM3 on the entire time. By the end of the fight he was 20k ahead of me! That means that just during double damage phase he was able to make up 70k+ damage. We both blew the monk out of the water, but non-mythic SAM should not be putting up those numbers. Before this update that wouldn't have been even close to possible. Before this update I could use Upukirex and not fall behind more than 10k if the SAM wasn't using Namas or Apex during piercing.

When my Mythic Drakesbane is only doing 8k during double damage phase and any Frankie Fudo SAM with a Tsumumaru can spam his WS for 14-17k during his phase without removing the aura, there is a major issue there.

DRG received practically nothing this last update. Stardiver and Drakes are still king and they are lightyears behind other DD WSs. Buffing non-mythic DRGs would increase how strong Mythic DRG is.. but only to the point that it could be competitive with mythic SAM in its current form, which is where it was pre-adoulin anyway. This argument that buffing DRG would make Ryu owners so OP that people would only shout for them is totally bogus.

Unless something is completely neutral or weak to piercing, DRG, even with a mythic, falls well behind in modern FFXI. This needs to be addressed.

I'd say before update mythic DRG was roughly on same tier as other mainstream DD such as vere MNK, but below koga. After update it's probably behind avg SAM. It wasn't OP before update and it certainly isn't OP now. I was just saying it MAY get OP if SE buffed DRG and do it wrong. How'd I know they ended up buffing SAM and do it even more wrong - -

If anything, I'm against the design decision of last update if that makes you happy. IMO, it's a terribly executed update not just broke the game balance with SAM and SC dmg. What's the point to create content ILV128 content when SAM can trio box it? What's the point to solve merit WS issue by making Fudo way too OP? What's the point to buff 1h job and SAM still being the most OP job?

The worst part is, after Matsui became producer, they tend to not to use "nerf" as a tool to achieve game balance, because players emotionally hates nerf and loves buff so they want to please the player, even if the nerf hate is irrational. So they see everyone MNK everything, they buff SAM and now SAM being too OP. In order to get other jobs to catch up, they need to buff other jobs like WAR DRG to same lv of output, leaving content ILV128 no difficulty. Doing content lv 128 at lv 119 cap with 1 character+ 2 mules or killing it in 15~20 min with 6 ppl doesn't really fit the definition of fun, IMO.

You can praise quality of life improvement, or more frequent update, but it doesn't change the fact that this update is just full of wrong when it comes to balance between jobs and content difficulty.

[Demonjustin]

As it stands I believe you could make other DDs stronger and MNK/RNG would still be the best because of enmity/HP.

[Mitruya]

{Yes. please} to any or all those DRG suggestions mentioned above. As everyone has said, everything is "RNG-only" or "MNK-only" now; after finally getting an Upukirex I don't even get to play DRG for much of anything.