Solo Accomplishments, Party Barriers, and Enhancing the Community

[Siviard]

One role of linkshells and other forms of community is for situations like this so the players that are ahead can help support the players that are behind. I think the best thing players who feel it difficult to join parties can do is to play together with like-minded friends if you are trying to challenge content geared towards parties.

The bolded section is the most inaccurate piece of blabber I think I've ever seen by Matsui. Sadly, the opposite is true. Players who have better gear and are "ahead of the game" do their best to REJECT players who are behind and won't allow them to come along for endgame content.

Don't have Aegis/Ochain on your Paladin? You're not wanted. Don't have Gjallarhorn or Daurdalba on your Bard? Leave now. Don't have Annihilator 119 on your Ranger? Don't bother responding. etc. etc.

[Demonjustin]

The bolded section is the most inaccurate piece of blabber I think I've ever seen by Matsui. Sadly, the opposite is true. Players who have better gear and are "ahead of the game" do their best to REJECT players who are behind and won't allow them to come along for endgame content.

Don't have Aegis/Ochain on your Paladin? You're not wanted. Don't have Gjallarhorn or Daurdalba on your Bard? Leave now. Don't have Annihilator 119 on your Ranger? Don't bother responding. etc. etc.

That's part of what he's talking about though. He's not saying that's what shells are doing, but rather that's what they're supposed to do. He understands the community is stuck in a rut where we're not performing that duty and instead players are being left behind the way you mentioned. Look at what he was talking about before that...

Due to the nature of pick-up parties, there is a trend of increasing the requirements for joining so that the success rate can be boosted, and I feel that this cannot be avoided.

and right after it...

As we are still in the planning phases I cannot say at the moment exactly how we will be doing this, but the development team feels this is something that needs to be addressed.

To me it sounds like he understands the issue entirely, and while they're not sure exactly how to address it, they understand it is something that does deserve some attention. It's not inaccurate to say that's the function they're supposed to serve, rather it would be if he were to say that's the function they are currently serving, at no point during that did I get the feel like he meant they're doing that right now.

[Raydeus]

It's good to see they have these issues in mind. And hopefully Fellows will be included in future plans to allow Trust in battlefields for solo players and small parties.

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The bolded section is the most inaccurate piece of blabber I think I've ever seen by Matsui. Sadly, the opposite is true. Players who have better gear and are "ahead of the game" do their best to REJECT players who are behind and won't allow them to come along for endgame content.

Don't have Aegis/Ochain on your Paladin? You're not wanted. Don't have Gjallarhorn or Daurdalba on your Bard? Leave now. Don't have Annihilator 119 on your Ranger? Don't bother responding. etc. etc.

That's a community issue, not a gameplay/design one. And he already understands the attitude players take and how they try to minimize risks as much as possible, he said it right there in his post.

In the older days when more people were playing and the community was much stronger it was not rare at all to have higher level players helping the LS. But nowadays with how sparse the community has become not many have the will or patience to help others. That is precisely why he also says he needs the help of players to make a better community with a better attitude, because mechanics alone are not enough at all.

[Siviard]

It's good to see they have these issues in mind. And hopefully Fellows will be included in future plans to allow Trust in battlefields for solo players and small parties.

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That's a community issue, not a gameplay/design one. And he already understands the attitude players take and how they try to minimize risks as much as possible, he said it right there in his post.

In the older days when more people were playing and the community was much stronger it was not rare at all to have higher level players helping the LS. But nowadays with how sparse the community has become not many have the will or patience to help others. That is precisely why he also says he needs the help of players to make a better community with a better attitude, because mechanics alone are not enough at all.

I'm going to have to disagree with your assertion that the problem is a community issue and not a gameplay/design issue.

Here's why.

I do believe that the Development Team did well in lowering the total HP of Delve NMs in the fracture based on the number of people in the group was wonderful and it really did help out a bit. However, they did absolutely nothing to the NMs themselves, especially the Mega Bosses. The Mega Bosses still SPAM TP moves and those moves still have the power to destroy a full 18-person alliance. IMHO, that is a serious design flaw. Serious enough to the point that in order to defeat those Mega Bosses, only a select few jobs with very top-of-the-line gear (and 3rd party programs) have a shot at winning. Anything else involving a combination of different jobs? Complete and utter failure 100% of the time. Again, that is a very serious design flaw. NOT a Community problem.

Lets also not forget the very serious problem that is plaguing the 3 pet jobs (BST, SMN, PUP) despite the fact the pet job community has been asking, begging, and pleading for fixes, for ANYTHING that will help their job become wanted in any endgame content, have all fallen on deaf ears. Again, that is a design flaw, which then leads to the community issue.

[detlef]

I do believe that the Development Team did well in lowering the total HP of Delve NMs in the fracture based on the number of people in the group was wonderful and it really did help out a bit.

Isn't this essentially the opposite of what Matsui said? How can you encourage veterans to invite noobies while simultaneously introducing content that discourages you from inviting noobies? Why do something with 18 people when 6 can accomplish the same thing and receive exactly the same drops as the alliance? Would you bring another person along for the win when it means the NMs will have thousands more HP and you have to split the drops with an additional person? You might think twice, right?

Why bring a full PT to Ra'kazner Skirmish when only one person can get the Transmelange key item? Seriously, why did they make it so terrible? Bringing another person lowers your chance of getting it and the chances were low to begin with. Why team up to earn capacity points when the penalty for PTing up is so steep? It makes more sense to XP solo with trusts that to PT up. It makes more sense to do Dynamis or Salvage solo rather than group up. The only content I can think of that encourages you to bring more players might be Divine Might where more players lets you tackle higher difficulty levels and everybody gets more Rem's Tales. Oh and Meebles too I guess, for what that's worth.

Basically the game gives you no incentive to PT up. Back in the day, the only downside to bringing a larger group was splitting the drops amongst more people. Now we have events where you have to split drops amongst more people and the content is harder.

[Demonjustin]

Isn't this essentially the opposite of what Matsui said? How can you encourage veterans to invite noobies while simultaneously introducing content that discourages you from inviting noobies? Why do something with 18 people when 6 can accomplish the same thing and receive exactly the same drops as the alliance? Would you bring another person along for the win when it means the NMs will have thousands more HP and you have to split the drops with an additional person? You might think twice, right?

This is really why 6-man Delve was a terrible idea, and even though I supported the idea at the time I now look back on it as the terrible idea it was. It only allowed people to reject even more players from the content and since the update I've been basically excluded from these runs personally because now no one even needs my job. Before people took not only more people but more jobs, it was common on Phoenix to take a mix of DRK, WAR, SAM, MNK, DRG, WHM, BRD, COR, SCH, GEO, and RDM. I was always the RDM in this setup and proud to do so because I finally had a use for my main again without having to bug others for an invite. However even with that being said we've moved to the point where parties go with MNK, DRK, DRG, BRD, WHM, and SCH only, and really the DRK & DRG are fairly rare. I've not seen 1 normal shout for an 18 man run at the new zones since release. I've been in 4 Tojil parties in 2 and a half months. The change was disastrous and it's all due to the very thing you're talking about.

[Draylo]

This is really why 6-man Delve was a terrible idea, and even though I supported the idea at the time I now look back on it as the terrible idea it was. It only allowed people to reject even more players from the content and since the update I've been basically excluded from these runs personally because now no one even needs my job. Before people took not only more people but more jobs, it was common on Phoenix to take a mix of DRK, WAR, SAM, MNK, DRG, WHM, BRD, COR, SCH, GEO, and RDM. I was always the RDM in this setup and proud to do so because I finally had a use for my main again without having to bug others for an invite. However even with that being said we've moved to the point where parties go with MNK, DRK, DRG, BRD, WHM, and SCH only, and really the DRK & DRG are fairly rare. I've not seen 1 normal shout for an 18 man run at the new zones since release. I've been in 4 Tojil parties in 2 and a half months. The change was disastrous and it's all due to the very thing you're talking about.

Exactly what I warned about, but people don't know what they want.

[AppropriateName5786]

This is really why 6-man Delve was a terrible idea, and even though I supported the idea at the time I now look back on it as the terrible idea it was. It only allowed people to reject even more players from the content and since the update I've been basically excluded from these runs personally because now no one even needs my job. Before people took not only more people but more jobs, it was common on Phoenix to take a mix of DRK, WAR, SAM, MNK, DRG, WHM, BRD, COR, SCH, GEO, and RDM. I was always the RDM in this setup and proud to do so because I finally had a use for my main again without having to bug others for an invite. However even with that being said we've moved to the point where parties go with MNK, DRK, DRG, BRD, WHM, and SCH only, and really the DRK & DRG are fairly rare. I've not seen 1 normal shout for an 18 man run at the new zones since release. I've been in 4 Tojil parties in 2 and a half months. The change was disastrous and it's all due to the very thing you're talking about.

Actually, 6-man Delve would have been a terrific idea if Delve wasn't so badly designed to begin with. Delve's problems had nothing to do with how many people could go; they have always been 100% about content design. I was in the same boat as you and desperately wanted it to be low-man content, but the dev team's lack of foresight never fails to shock the players. The way they handled the Delve change was exactly like how they handled the Nyzul/Assault changes. Nothing is ever thought through before being implemented. They may as well just add a disclaimer saying: "If you were behind the curve on content, you can now enter solo, but you'll never succeed because we didn't take out the mechanics that prevented you from winning solo (same-time lamps etc.)." That is basically what we're seeing with Delve I now.

I do believe that the Development Team did well in lowering the total HP of Delve NMs in the fracture based on the number of people in the group was wonderful and it really did help out a bit. However, they did absolutely nothing to the NMs themselves, especially the Mega Bosses. The Mega Bosses still SPAM TP moves and those moves still have the power to destroy a full 18-person alliance. IMHO, that is a serious design flaw. Serious enough to the point that in order to defeat those Mega Bosses, only a select few jobs with very top-of-the-line gear (and 3rd party programs) have a shot at winning. Anything else involving a combination of different jobs? Complete and utter failure 100% of the time. Again, that is a very serious design flaw. NOT a Community problem.

This is the real reason why 6-man Delve failed. You needed (and waited 3 hours for) stun SCHs who cheated to win in Delve I before the change; you still need one now. MNK/SAM vs every other DD. WHM vs every other healer. BRD vs every other buffer. Indeed, not a community problem.

[Afania]

This is really why 6-man Delve was a terrible idea, and even though I supported the idea at the time I now look back on it as the terrible idea it was. It only allowed people to reject even more players from the content and since the update I've been basically excluded from these runs personally because now no one even needs my job. Before people took not only more people but more jobs, it was common on Phoenix to take a mix of DRK, WAR, SAM, MNK, DRG, WHM, BRD, COR, SCH, GEO, and RDM. I was always the RDM in this setup and proud to do so because I finally had a use for my main again without having to bug others for an invite. However even with that being said we've moved to the point where parties go with MNK, DRK, DRG, BRD, WHM, and SCH only, and really the DRK & DRG are fairly rare. I've not seen 1 normal shout for an 18 man run at the new zones since release. I've been in 4 Tojil parties in 2 and a half months. The change was disastrous and it's all due to the very thing you're talking about.

Pretty much this, I never had issue joining delve pt when it was 18 men, or less than 18 men and still took a few more leeches/friends for clear, now I have to try really hard to convince people to give me a spot because I don't have MNK SAM BRD WHM SCH RNG lol, and I had to reject people if they want to come. Nobody want to do 18 men anymore.

I never understand why everyone seems to hate 18 men content so much. IMO it isn't bad, there are more chance to meet more players, and build a stronger connections in the community.

The only reason why delve 1 18 men pt used to /shout forever, is because:

1. Pt can't find a BRD, GEO and SCH, and you just need them.

2. The shouter is notorious on the server.

No.1 is obviously job balance issue, not a 18 men alliance issue. No.2 is /shouter's own issue.

Delve should really reward 18 men alliance more. 6 men delve doesn't make everyone's life easier, but harder, unless you're MNK SAM BRD WHM SCH RNG.

[Dreamin]

2. The shouter is notorious on the server.

So much truth in this one.