Why are bst pets getting shafted?

[Mokeil]

And you still haven't begin to address smns getting around 200 extra pet mab over the last couple of updates while bst got what 20 pet att lol.

You sound like someone who has never ever even seen a jug pet in action since they added ilvl and/or a smn who doesn't want any pet competetion at all...

As for specifically the imbalance of Pet:MAB to Pet:Attack? I can only guess that it is due to the fact that Pet:MAB only helps SMN for one hit every 45 seconds, whereas Pet:Attack helps BST with every auto-attack hit your pet makes.

Also, to be fair on the Summoner side of things, you are assuming not only the very best staff - obtained from the (theoretically) current hardest event - but also in getting extremely lucky with the Augment Roulette on the new skirmish gear. So, in other words: You are assuming the best possible everything for SMN. That is not a set the average player can pull off without a lot of effort. (I'd also argue that winning the Augment Roulette multiple times is far more of a pain than augmenting some AF+2, but I have a preference for static progression you can see versus just getting lucky. Anyone else's mileage may vary.)

Now, I will freely admit I haven't payed much attention to BST since iLevel came along, but I know before-hand SMN and BST sort of balanced out in the end - better spike damage versus better DoT, disposability versus survivability, etc... That said, having assumed the very best gear set possible for SMN I don't think it's too far outside the realm of reasonable to ask how BST performs with its very best gear set possible. So, again, assuming the very best for BST, how do they really stack up?

This is an honest and sincere question - no joking or bashing BST, no "haha SMN is better", no "oh, but SMN has it worse and here's why"... We've both got highly systemic problems with some most of our core job features, and Adoulin's iLevels have only made the problems more pronounced. I'm just trying to understand how my fellow pet job compatriots are doing.

I do know you guys have a horrible mess of a system on which jug pets level how and how high... That 2k plasm thing is a terrible joke... And even as a 96 Cook I find the ingredients for some of the jug recipes to be ridiculous... But pound for pound, and assuming Best vs Best, how does BST perform? Is an appropriately geared BST pet really so lame that it just "wiffs endlessly", unable to kill even random field mobs in a reasonable period of time?

[Umichi]

Now, I will freely admit I haven't payed much attention to BST since iLevel came along, but I know before-hand SMN and BST sort of balanced out in the end - better spike damage versus better DoT, disposability versus survivability, etc... That said, having assumed the very best gear set possible for SMN I don't think it's too far outside the realm of reasonable to ask how BST performs with its very best gear set possible. So, again, assuming the very best for BST, how do they really stack up?

There are still things a bst can solo smn can't even come close to.. however recently with the introduction of Ilvl after lvl 99, smn has been able to seemlessly do endgame content while bst is still trailing behind unable to solo because his stats just aren't up to scratch. Is it unfair that a bst who prefers to solo is being forced into meriting into merits he does not want just so he can get gear that still doesn't help him out much outside of being more capable of doing party and alliance oriented events?

I find the problem lies in the fact that there are not alot of gear paths for bst to choose from in order to work hard at gaining soloing gear. how it looks now all he's doing is grabbing party and alliance gear while pet is added damage like drg's wyvern is.... problem is wyvern levels with owner and shares stats of weapon to a point so my qiqiru is adding on damage and not missing... On normal mobs I can hit combined for about 1k+ in audolin. Going into deeper territories I average 600-700+ per combined hit

so I agree there are problems with bst. I know my friend is now stepping into audolin and he is an avid bst fan.. I just hope he is severely skilled (has lvld bst on 2 chars and worked hard on all gear forthem both) and can manage better because he's had more experience perhaps...

2k jugs are expensive.. but perhaps powerful? in the span of things they are getting 30 mins inbetween and any skilled bst can DD in lowman groups to get upgraded weapons and gear) and farming for plasm isn't to much of a hassle if you do 1-5 runs

[dasva]

2k jugs are expensive.. but perhaps powerful? in the span of things they are getting 30 mins inbetween and any skilled bst can DD in lowman groups to get upgraded weapons and gear) and farming for plasm isn't to much of a hassle if you do 1-5 runs

I haven't personally played with it but last I saw tested put it around similar strength of crabs in the past and current new one. Main difference is is that this one caps at like 113+ before beast affinity (though still need ilvl weapon). So right now it and the grasshopper are the only jugs that can get to ilvl 119 with grasshopper just barely getting there and the plasm one can do it without af2. So it is kinda nice. However I probably wouldn't spend 2k on it unless it gave me a full stack of jugs. Though I think one of the bigger downfalls is it dieing. Now that we basically have to merit beast affinity that means either demeriting killer instinct which is a huge dmg loss to the master and pt members or beast healer which lowers your pets survivability and/or increases the cost healing pets. And as soon as it dies bam out 2k plasm. So like if you actually used the plasm pet in a farming run it's conceivable that you might actually just break even lol. In the scheme of things you are doing alot of farming just for minor upgrades that die lol. It would be like if altenator litterally blew up ever 20th time you brought out auto lol (well other than the fact auto is alot stronger)

[Goldfish]

Not sure you are getting it quite right. BA and monster gloves don't actually raise the jugs level it just raises it's cap. So regardless the highest level you can pull out will be based on your ilvl.

Yeah, BST Affinity doesn't raise the level past your own level or ilvl (which ever is higher). BST Affinity has always been kind of a disappoint thing. When it was first released, it just meant you could bust out your Funguar Familiars that were (at 65 before BST affinity and then...) at level 71 with 3/3 Beast Affinity merits. Once they upped merit category 2 cap from 3 to 5, then you could get 3 new pet families with Beast Affinity (Fly, Funguar, and Lizard which are all capped at 65). Some of them are "almost there" (Tiger is capped at 63 most noticeably though I was more of a funguar fan myself and was content with my funguar).

After the level cap increase, it was much better since a huge portion of pets added already had their cap at 99. Some of them were still left at arbitrary level caps (like Sheep, Nursery Nazuna, was set at level 86 just to keep Beast Affinity relevant).

To clarify more, let me use SMN as an example to explain.

Imagine if for Summoner, they made all Avatars have varying arbitrary level caps. Like Carbuncle is capped at 75 (even if you were level 99, Carbuncle would still be stuck at 75 for example), Fenrir capped at 85, Garuda capped at 87, etc and they told you to "wait for new avatars with higher level caps". "Cait Sith and Atomos will be at level 115, wait for them to come out!"

Wait a minute, why is Carbuncle at 75? Don't worry! There's this merit trait you can learn called "Avatar Affinity" it'd boost your Carbuncle from 75 to 85 at 5/5. (Again, it can't be higher than your own level. If your SMN was at 75, Carbuncle will still be at 75 even with 5/5 "Avatar Affinity").

But wait, there's more - you also can also get relic gloves +2 fully augmented, and then with that on, it'll boost Carbuncle from 75 to 90! (These examples are exaggerated, yes I know.) (Also to be fair, most BST pets are kind of more or less the same compared to SMN Avatars which offer a decent variety, even if just for elemental differences. While we don't have a high level Antlion or Diremite jug pet anymore, most other jugs can do the same thing they do too. So it's not as bad it sounds but it still disappointing, and especially if you're a fan of either jugs.)

You wonder, why all these varying level caps across multiple families?

Hopefully, they'll change it in an update right? You hear - Everyone... Wait... Wait... Don't worry everyone... We're going to add a new stronger Carbuncle in the next update! The newer Carbuncle will be at lvl 103! (Not too bad right?) And with Avatar Affinity 5/5 + Relic Gloves +2, then new Carbuncle will be at lvl 118 (and that's only if you have the Satchel from the new Delve Boss that caps at 120; again remember Carbuncle still caps at your level, so it's 99 if you're gearless regardless of "Avatar Affinity" or not).

You say - That's great! But wait, what about Fenrir? Fenrir is still at level cap 85/100 and Garuda is at 87/102... Then you hear, well about Fenrir and Garuda, maybe we'll add higher level versions of Fenrir and Garuda later. But for now, just wait and enjoy your new higher level Carbuncle (while your Fenrir and Garuda are underleveled in comparison).

Basically, that's what the BST situation is right now. Though it's not as big of a deal for BST that they can't just an antlion or diremite jug compared to if SMN couldn't use Carbuncle or Garuda (for example) but still, why is it like that in the first place?

Also I know not all jobs are supposed to work the same (asymmetrical balance) but Beast Affinity and Beast Level caps are kind of silly. It wouldn't be as bad if they kept all familiars up to date but they haven't (they can in the future to be fair to SE but we'll have to see).

As BST, I don't mind having to get Beast Affinity (some jobs need certain merits or else they can't function while Ninja has almost all completely useless ones) but the fact that even with Beast Affinity 5/5 and Relic Gloves, not all our pets are usable (and we have to wait on some) is silly (and yes I am going to use the word silly a lot because that's what random pet level caps are... silly).

I would even be fine (happy actually) if Beast Affinity was changed so that it makes it so it's always your level.

Like I would like it if they changed it so Beast Affinity 1/5 would be, pet is summoned at least 5 levels below you (if not already capped), and Beast Affinity 5/5 always summons a pet the same level as you (or as item level).

That'd I'd accept happily (then I could keep using my favorite pets).

However, currently even with Beast Affinity (and then later) half of our current pet families are underleveled (a decent amount of them are capped at 95 or below) and the current ones capped at 99 may still be stuck at the same level.

Also as for things like "well BST can still do this and this better than most jobs" it's true but like I said in my previous post, why argue against buffs for a certain job when you can argue for buffs for your job instead? BST is not overpowered plus BST is the least gear intensive and least time investment job to get at a stage where you can get things done. Unlike leveling BRD to 99, then working on relic or empyrean and then capping skill (for example), you can get BST to 99 naked with 0 axe skill and still solo a ton of stuff.

Basically, most of BST benefits can be earned within 20 hours (3-5 hours to get to level 30, 12-15 hours to get from 30 to 99, probably 20 hours max assuming you get decent leveling experiences). So all of BST benefits can be obtained by anyone really (it's least time required job to get things done since you don't have to cap any skills). There's little reason to not get BST up to 99 (it's a good investment if you really needed it + again, it only takes 20-25 hours max to get to 99 and there are no skills to cap, not much required gear, etc).

Lots of things require or benefit different jobs. Yes, it's nice that one of my jobs I already like and play is also useful but first, I'm all for SMN buffs too and second, while BST is useful, I'd rather they fix the pet level caps so they're equal than it being useful (at least if I wanted to play things for fun, I could use whatever pet I'd like without worrying about one pet being 10-15 levels higher than the other for some random reason). You may be wondering, wait, if BST wasn't useful and lets say all pets were capped at level 30 (for example), why would I prefer that over what we have now? Again, it's just of those issues that feels wrong when thinking about and playing BST (pets with arbitrary level caps). At least if all pets capped at level 30 (for example), then it wouldn't feel as wrong because they're not random level caps spread across multiple pet families anymore, now they're equal. I'd only get to use BST in that case maybe to fight mobs in low level areas but at least the pets... they'll all be equally leveled! There will be no favoritism shown to one pet over another simply due to levels anymore! I'd be fine with weaker pets overall if they were at least all equally leveled with each other.

For the BST who leveled it the as one of their first jobs (throwing random charm pets at mobs and making 2-3k an hour, maybe 5k an hour on bombs for certain levels, all the way to 75), it's disappointing that your beloved job "still" has these arbitrary level caps for Call Beast families. And for the new BST who are enthusiastic about the job but later finds out that certain pet families are only useful at certain levels due to random level caps, that also is disappointing for them too. FFXI's appeal is the variety of jobs/classes and being able to job switch. In that case, why not FFXI team goes all out and make each job appealing in their own way as much as possible?

BST was the second job I got to 75 (first being NIN) and SMN is the first advanced job I unlocked (I even did all the avatars after they introduced the "mini tuning forks" version - I remember downloading all the videos of various people doing the Searing Light strategy and then doing it, fun times).

BST has come a long way since it's been released however there's still one thing wrong with the job is that certain pets are capped at certain levels and we get a "fix" known as Beast Affinity which only helps for certain pets (when it was first released, it was mostly useless since the second highest pets were at 65, and with 3/3 it meant it was at 71, still underleveled. Then once 5/5 came, now we finally get to have 3 extra pet families at 75 for some reason). Again, it's like, what if Fenrir was capped at 85 for some reason, Garuda at 87, and you needed a merit called Avatar Affinity and even with those, Fenrir and Garuda will still be underleveled and behind your other avatars (for example).

As for arguing against BST buffs (and in this case, said buffs are simply just allowing BST to have equally leveled pet families) because it's an easy job to gear and do things on? Again, while that is true, that doesn't make it right to not fix the pet problem with BST.

What if they made all SMN avatars bad (capped at level 99 and the made it so the new satchel doesn't affect avatars) but yet made the elemental spirits really good - like the elemental spirits all do like 50k damage nukes and 20k AoE cures with stoneskin once every 5 seconds, making SMN the best job ever. However that doesn't excuse the fact that why does SMN have all these variety of summons with different abilities but they can't be used because they're capped at level 99 (for example)? What if you wanted to use Garuda or Fenrir or Leviathan instead of Elemental Spirits? Nope, they're capped at level 99 for some random reason, instead you can just use these Elemental Spirits and still be a top tier job.

SMN becomes popular, then people argue "well SMN have spirits that do 50k damage nukes and 20k cures every 5 seconds... why do you need Fenrir or Garuda or Carbuncle to also be useful and relevant when you can instead have Elemental Spirits do 50k damage nukes?" but for the SMN enthusiasts, then it sucks that they won't buff avatars because "Spirits are useful and can get anything done".

(Again this is just an example.) That may sound like a silly example but you can put BST in that place and it's what's going on - "Why do BST need Lizard or Tiger or Sheep pets when instead they can use the latest Crab jug which starts at 113?".

BST was my second job at 75 (leveled it back in the old days) and to see it being now a job that everyone likes to hate on is saddening (to be fair again... BST was hated on even in the old days, probably more so than now due to MPKing and I did once encounter an MPK attempt from a BST, during a Garlaige Citadel party back during the day >.>).

I wouldn't mind if BST got nerfed but one thing that needs to be done, one thing... remove all the random arbitrary level caps on jugs and/or at least make 5/5 BST affinity make your pet equal to your level, so that all pets can be equal in level (or if they have to capped at some level, they should all be capped at the same level).

Edit - This post isn't towards anyone specific. It's just, again it's just, I hope everyone understands what BST players are asking for isn't too much and I hope people understand more (with the examples I used) how silly the concept of Beast Affinity is (Carbuncle is capped at 80, you need Avatar Affinity 5/5 and AF2+2 Augmented and even then, it's still at 95... for example). I wouldn't mind if BST sucked or was nerfed to be useless but again, at least make all our pets equal in level so we can use whatever we like ; ;. If all pets have equally bad stats, at least then you could pick whatever pet you want to use. I don't want to have to use latest Crab jug to fight random rocks efficiently in Reives just because it is 10 levels higher than every other pet (still be capped at your own level or item level though, and speaking of only crabs... that was also the case for the longest time back at the 75 cap days when CourierCarrie was most commonly used due to there be only 2 other pet families at 75 cap and them not being as supplied as CourierCarrie ).