Why are bst pets getting shafted?

[FaeQueenCory]

In the end basically it comes down to smn getting most the relavent pet gear lately.

As I said before: "What!? SMN actually getting useful gear after 11 years of getting nothing!? Unthinkable!"
I don't play BST as a main or anything... but I've dabbled enough to have a feel for it.
And I have plenty of friends who main it... and they tell me that you're crazy to think the new BST axes aren't insane. From their mouths, the new BST axes are the same level of buff as the 117 crafted-only staff you seem to be convinced that just falls from the sky.
Oh no! You have to use a piece of AF to have your pet be higher leveled? Smn is still stuck with the full empy set... because there's NOTHING ELSE THAT IS AS GOOD.
That's a whole set of 90ish gear that is pretty much the best a smn can do. (with a couple of exceptions due to personal taste... but mainly just the pants. but even then it's still none of it's iLv gear.) All this great new iLv gear that every other job is enjoying? Not a single piece of it is relevant to a smn outside of a macro-swap.

The encumbrance thread is filled with tales about how in Adoulin a person is getting hit for 100 a pop then encumbered and then suddenly they're getting popped for 4-800.
That's what smn is like 100% of the time.

Yes, smn is getting a large influx of MAB gear... and it's a glorious thing... because for the past 11 years of the game... smn has gotten nothing.
Nothing but AF sets and other JSE.
In other words: the same things every other job has gotten.

And dear GOD... the amount of work a smn has to put up with to get some of this gear... it's millions of gil worth of effort!
It's like Mokeil said, only the best of the best are going to have the time, energy, funds, and luck to be the best.
And complaining that everyone isn't the best is just wasting your energy where you could be going out there and getting the stuff you need to be good.
So go out and get these new axes, wear your AF that you need to... do what you need to do to be good.

But don't try and say that smn is getting too much good gear. Because it's not. It really isn't...
For once in smn's long existence... it's actually getting relevant gear that makes it playable.
In reality, your BST has FAR more numerous and better gear choices than smn ever does. Even now.

[dasva]

As I said before: "What!? SMN actually getting useful gear after 11 years of getting nothing!? Unthinkable!"
I don't play BST as a main or anything... but I've dabbled enough to have a feel for it.
And I have plenty of friends who main it... and they tell me that you're crazy to think the new BST axes aren't insane. From their mouths, the new BST axes are the same level of buff as the 117 crafted-only staff you seem to be convinced that just falls from the sky.

Again I'm talking about them getting stuff while bst is getting nothing. And cry me a river. If smn has gotten "nothing" for 11 years then bst has never gotten anything. Yes it's great to melee in and makes your pet great on 75 content. On soa stuff no your pets still suck balls. I've recently done stuff like skirmish and delve and wkr with pets and they wiff about half the time. And do bad dmg when they do hit. Even if you went with the FALSE assumption that the axe buffs pets as much as that staff... that still brings the problem of THAT'S ALL WE GET. While you also have the ammo doing which does as much as the axes ON TOP of that and all the new skirmish gear. Once again you are missing the entire point. bst just gets axe which needs to be combined with af2+2 and merits to do JUST what the new ammo is doing for smn. Then we get nothing else while smn is getting alot. Not sure how many times I'm going to have to repeat that until you stop acting like we both get 1 thing. Oh and that staff costs like 3.5mil on your server and 3-4 sell a day... so yeah pretty much falling from the sky.

Oh no! You have to use a piece of AF to have your pet be higher leveled? Smn is still stuck with the full empy set... because there's NOTHING ELSE THAT IS AS GOOD.
That's a whole set of 90ish gear that is pretty much the best a smn can do. (with a couple of exceptions due to personal taste... but mainly just the pants. but even then it's still none of it's iLv gear.) All this great new iLv gear that every other job is enjoying? Not a single piece of it is relevant to a smn outside of a macro-swap.

The encumbrance thread is filled with tales about how in Adoulin a person is getting hit for 100 a pop then encumbered and then suddenly they're getting popped for 4-800.
That's what smn is like 100% of the time.

Again I'm talking pets stop bringing up masters like that is even part of this conversation. I'd try to debate this part of gearing more except you are making absolutely no sense. Somehow comparing still having af3 that is good to bsts requirement to have to use and augment af2+2 and use merits on top of having ilvl weapon just to do what your ilvl ammo does. There is litterally no comparison between the 2 so I'm going to attribute this to you just being asleep when you wrote this part since it litterally makes no logical sense in this debate. Also wtf are you talking about af3? Head is only there for refresh. Body should only be used for bps. hands should only be used for manacede and maybe on same day weather and physical bps. Legs bp only. feet magical bp and siphon only. I'm begining to think you don't know your own job. It isn't the ilvl gear that is only good for maccro swapping but the old gear you are still foolishly using. Get skirmish 2 gear get perp on one set and pet mab on the other and pdt on both. That solves your fake ilvl getting hit for more dmg problem (why you are getting hit in the first place is another discussion), it also completely destroys your gearing arguments. Seriously you can now gear yourself to have +4 refresh with just gear with avatar out without avatars favor. And alot of that comes from using new gear. None of the af3+2 except head is ideal to idle in. And it only is if you are taking advantage of the new -perp gear from skirmish. On top of being the top idle peices they also have huge defensive stats to protect you and haste if you want to melee... Seriously have you been asleep since the last update?

Yes, smn is getting a large influx of MAB gear... and it's a glorious thing... because for the past 11 years of the game... smn has gotten nothing.
Nothing but AF sets and other JSE.
In other words: the same things every other job has gotten.

First off that's not completely true and same thing with bst. Why are you perfectly fine with your job getting a bunch of stuff after so long but hate another one getting stuff? Sure pettiness? Don't want any other pets to compete with? My entire point isn't that smn shouldn't get this stufff but that bst shouldn't be left out so no idea why you going so overboard with smns deserve gear. I'm not disagreeing I'm just saying there needs to be some balance.

And dear GOD... the amount of work a smn has to put up with to get some of this gear... it's millions of gil worth of effort!
It's like Mokeil said, only the best of the best are going to have the time, energy, funds, and luck to be the best.
And complaining that everyone isn't the best is just wasting your energy where you could be going out there and getting the stuff you need to be good.

That's not the complaint. The complaint is that you actually have that gear to get while bst doesn't. And really millions of gil is nothing now nor is the effort to get it.

So go out and get these new axes, wear your AF that you need to... do what you need to do to be good.

And that's the problem even if we go all out for our pets there is nothing we can do to make them good on soa content.

But don't try and say that smn is getting too much good gear. Because it's not. It really isn't...
For once in smn's long existence... it's actually getting relevant gear that makes it playable.

Never said that just saying it's gettting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more. Also don't give me that bst has never been in endgame while smn almost always has been.

In reality, your BST has FAR more numerous and better gear choices than smn ever does. Even now.

As a gimp dual axe war sure but for pets which is the whole poitn of this thread again no smn gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more. The only things really worth using if meleeing are tojil belt skadi+1 hands and ilvl axe. I again ask you why you are balantly misrepresenting the difference in the 2 jobs pets and the 2 jobs pet gear? Why are you trying to imply or flat out say we are getting equal pertinent gearing options when that's a flat out lie or that our pets are even comparable right now when that is also a flat out lie? And why the heck do you keep on bringing up master gear in a thread about pet gear? You think if someone at SE releases just how imbalanced the pet jobs are right now they will take away your goodies instead of boost bst up or do you just hate bsts that much?

Oh and totally missed the point someone else made about how we can only actually get 2 pets to max lvl possible right now and one of them is the 2k plasm crab. I mean what if smns ammo just said garuda goes up in lvl lol?

[Mokeil]

dasva and Umichi, thank you both for the input. I think I've got a better idea of where you guys are coming from now.

Whereas the new stuff SMN has gotten is still kinda limited in its own way (in that magical attacks is only one aspect of what we do, and is still only something we can do every 45 seconds) it at least offers a dramatically measurable boost in performance. On the other hand, with the measly Pet:Attack options BST has been getting, you'll be lucky if you even notice the extra damage you're doing.

Due to how oddly pdif works with pets as I'm sure you've noticed your smn melee dmg we need either alot more pet att (though crit rate da etc would be nice too) and I'm talking like 50-100 per peice on peices that also have other useful stuff like haste or like smn and pup have decent damaging tp moves with att bonuses on them lol.

You know, I think this right here is the crux of the problem. I've definitely noticed a marked decrease in my avatar's melee power in Adoulin to the point where, even without all the new +MAB stuff, I'd likely find myself sticking with magic pacts anyways. And yet outside Adoulin the physical moves still trump the magical ones on most things.

Traditionally, an avatar has always had incredible kill power on mobs that are lower level than it (often capping damage to the point where even crits didn't add any extra)... But now that level correction has been removed from Adoulin mobs, I'm wondering how much of that kill power has been due to it, as opposed to the stats of the avatars. I bet BST pets are suffering from the same thing.

This strikes me as a problem with some very core systems of the game. New gear won't actually solve this. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying BST doesn't deserve new gear - you totally do! It's not cool when everyone else gets new toys and you don't. All the same, new gear is just getting the same sorts of boost everyone else is getting. It does nothing to address the real problems facing our two jobs.

[dasva]

It is kinda a system problem... though because of how jugs are (almost all melee dmg and a few meh physical moves) it hits them a bit harder. While smn has usuallly been about the bps (heck often not even being allowed to melee) so can just switch to magical which got a rediculous boost over last few updates... also it's not just the pet mab though. The entire skirmish armor set and for that matter the staff gets up to -5 perp basically making free avatars with refresh afterwards a

While the main problem is the pet or really the mob pdif system it can be mitigated with gear. Like releasing that 25 pet att does waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less for every pet than 25 pet mab for the ones that use magic dmg. If they started doing more like +100 att peices and/or more like some kind of percent boost it would sorta compensate for the way pet pdif works. Well and of course fixing the acc issues. Hard to say without parses but I seriously doubt the ilvl weapons raise up jugs acc as much as it does the master. I mean very little acc gear with delve axe and I'm capping acc against mobs my jug is having a wiff fest on.

Another issue is bst is a meleeish job so jugs never were (and argueably shouldn't be) hugely great as far as dmg goes on anything hard since you got the master deal dmg. Only now they basically do hardly any dmg harder stuff while master continues to be an ok DD so even using what little gear there is for pets will usually lower your dmg because they don't seem to like to put good pet stats on equipment that is also good for the master. 5 haste on my pet vs more for me or some other stats? Decision is easy in any situation but especially when buffed in soa areas.

[Goldfish]

@FaeQueenCory - Now while I understand the reference to SMN and other pet jobs were made (implying they are better than BST) but there's no need to put down our pet buffs.

I mean if everyone kept doing that to each other's jobs, then no job would be buffed (in the scenario that SE listens) because everyone would have the mindset of <insert job here is entitled to this buff and not that job>.

I don't mind (and would like too as I play also play SMN) if SMN also gets buffed too but there's no need to put down BST buff suggestions just because SMN is also not in a great place.

For example, I always thought Avatar's Favor (when introduced and still now) was always silly due to the fact that it made your pets weak, the range was (and still is) really small at 10 range (compared to 15 range of most AoE stuff) and how it was rarely used or relevant to any endgame stuff (most people wouldn't waste a DD slot in the DD party for SMN buffs when they could rotate BRD/COR buffs and let SMN be in the mage party or something). Overall Avatar's Favor (for example) was (and still is) almost completely useless in any relevant content.

I understand SMN's problems too and I hope anyone else coming to these forums can understand BST problems or annoyances that could be bettered. BST is definitely the king of pre adoulin content and still somewhat relevant in certain solo content too. Still, even if BST was the best job, it wouldn't be great or fun if certain things were left untouched or kept the way they are (beast affinity and jug pets being level capped for example). And FFXI is a game where fun should be had and every job should have many ways to have fun and/or have a variety of builds or ways to play (RDM tanking before they nerfed the enmity from sleep, dispel, etc for example).

I think everyone should unite as a community and be okay with one or another's job buff suggestions (no need for nerfs for anything either). Besides, the game's kind of broken already with Adoulin. I wouldn't mind if most jobs got buffed.

Edit - Also the variety of ways a job can play should also be increased. Back then, we had things like RDM tanking being viable (but died due to enmity values on things like sleep and dispel being changed) and other stuff too. I think each job should have multiple play styles (not that this is relevant to BST since I am fine with how BST plays) but the point is that buffing jobs or adding way for more jobs to do things increase fun which means players still keep playing. Please buff jobs and also add more gear or weapons that multiple jobs can use (I like T1-5 Delve weapons being usable by multiple jobs... it's neat to have Samurai being able to use bow somewhat proficiently too or ninja being able to use the dagger and sword for example). Again this isn't exactly relevant to BST but the point is that buffs and increasing what jobs can do (whether for BST or SMN or any job) increases build variety and fun (and that keeps players interested in the game). Things can be grindy but only if there are things to look forward at the end of the grind (being able to work towards a RDM tanking build for example, etc). This should apply for every job.

[Kraggy]

because everyone would have the mindset of <insert job here is entitled to this buff and not that job>.

ER, it has always been thus since I started in early '05, players whose 'main' was one job fought tooth and nail to make themselves irreplaceable in group content so they had a guaranteed place: RDM and BRD being two of the worst examples at different times, often while doing so dissing others like SMN .. and I'm sure we all remember the 'loldrg' period not in a small way caused by this attitude.

[Camate]

Greetings,

I have some information to share from Akihiko Matsui about adjustments to take place in the fall version update as well as future plans for beastmaster.

Matsui here.

In the fall version update we will be making adjustments so that not only Lucky Lulush, but all rabbit familiars can use Wild Carrot.

Additionally, I checked with the lead about other adjustments that are currently being working on, so I’d like to share with you what I can.

• Addition of axes with item levels
  In the fall version update we will be adding new Bayld equipment, which include a new axe. The item levels for these new items will be between the current Bayld items (item level 106) and the equipment you can obtain from Yorcia Weald’s skirmish (item level 113).
  
  
• Pet enhancements
  We plan on making adjustments to increase the attack, defense, accuracy, evasion, magic accuracy, magic evasion, and magic attack of familiars called upon with Call Beast.

[Kriegsgott]

Addition of axes with item levels
In the fall version update we will be adding new Bayld equipment, which include a new axe. The item levels for these new items will be between the current Bayld items (item level 106) and the equipment you can obtain from Yorcia Weald’s skirmish (item level 113).

NEW AXE ? i dont think the ITEM LVL was the problem the problem is geting your PET on a high lvl !

serously if you cant get the axe from Hurkan try it with all Nakuals seals there shouldn be a problem gaining a decent axe but capping your BST pet lvl is a problem or did i miss something ?

[Mavrick]

Greetings,

I have some information to share from Akihiko Matsui about adjustments to take place in the fall version update as well as future plans for beastmaster.

My biggest problem with BST right now, is we went from having 20+ level appropriate pets with...

- High evasion
- Movement Speed Bonus
- Multiple Elemental resistance
- High Magic Defense
- Berserk
- Potent Aoe Paralyze
- Aoe Sleep
- Treasure Hunter II
- Max HP Down-10% ability
- Att/Def -33% ability
- Potent Evasion Down
- Killer Instinct Bonus for a wide range of monster families.

To this..

Crabs x2
Rabbit....
Grasshopper

The moment I found out that the 76-99 jugs were all capping out at level 114 and lower, I gave up on BST... there really is no point to the job right now... there is nothing fun about loosing 20 pets and all the versatility they offer to level caps and absurd "level up" requirements that no other jobs is faced with.

[Estafio]

Greetings,

I have some information to share from Akihiko Matsui about adjustments to take place in the fall version update as well as future plans for beastmaster.

/shame on you guys....