Trials of the Magians and casual players.

[Zagen]

I believe back then it felt more of a balance, that everyone felt safe that the content they played won't be "DEAD". Even if ppl had relic or other high lvl gear u can catch up w/ the other players w/ being required of some sort if endgame weapon to do mass dmg or DPS. They know that alone won't cut it. It felt more of a even playfield. Idk if I explain that well, but that came to mind.

I totally felt balanced when my gear got replaced as I leveled up with the exception of very few pieces. The same is true today. While our gear doesn't get outdated like it did in the past (leveling out of it) nothing has changed.

The funny thing is I hear how all the new stuff is hard to get when it's not. The reality is you as the player are artificially limiting yourself from getting that gear. PUGs filled with 'outdated gear' can take down any of the outside NMs.

[Osmond]

The funny thing is I hear how all the new stuff is hard to get when it's not. The reality is you as the player are artificially limiting yourself from getting that gear. PUGs filled with 'outdated gear' can take down any of the outside NMs.

Yet ppl keep forgetting that casual players do not want to take the time to get the latest gear as it is right now. No one willing to do that when they can find other MMO and do endgame content w/ no issues, no frustration. Im not looking at as "I" im looking at it as "them" what they have to deal with and how it can be fixed before they quit. The ppl who already have these R/E/M/D are blaming the new or casuals for not trying when it's that same talk that got them leaving hence hurting SE in the long run.

[Osmond]

Mind you they not gonna play hours on end, they just on for a few hrs a day. The only time they will last longer if the game or the community shows it, but if they aren't the same path as those who have the latest gear u well u gonna have to shout or create your LS and hope for the best. If that's the answer that they can give to the new or casual player then I don't know what to say.

[Hawklaser]

Yet ppl keep forgetting that casual players do not want to take the time to get the latest gear as it is right now. No one willing to do that when they can find other MMO and do endgame content w/ no issues, no frustration. Im not looking at as "I" im looking at it as "them" what they have to deal with and how it can be fixed before they quit. The ppl who already have these R/E/M/D are blaming the new or casuals for not trying when it's that same talk that got them leaving hence hurting SE in the long run.

Along with this, it is not necessarily the new players or casuals not trying to get the latest gear, but not being able to keep pace with the end game crowd and not having something else to work towards, or be a part of.

[Zagen]

Yet ppl keep forgetting that casual players do not want to take the time to get the latest gear as it is right now.

See this is what I don't get, you want gear on par with new stuff or rather slightly worse as that's the point of this thread by asking for TotM to be continued and not forgotten. If you don't want to take the time to get the latest gear that means you don't want to participate in new content, if you don't want to participate in new content then why do you need gear to be on par?

Please note I'm asking why you need gear on par not if you want gear on par.

No one willing to do that when they can find other MMO and do endgame content w/ no issues, no frustration.

To put it bluntly why are you or players who are thinking like this still here?

Although I am curious what MMO you can find that doesn't have gear checks for endgame content.

Im not looking at as "I" im looking at it as "them" what they have to deal with and how it can be fixed before they quit. The ppl who already have these R/E/M/D are blaming the new or casuals for not trying when it's that same talk that got them leaving hence hurting SE in the long run.

Along with this, it is not necessarily the new players or casuals not trying to get the latest gear, but not being able to keep pace with the end game crowd and not having something else to work towards, or be a part of.

My best friend in game falls under the 'casual' meets my 'ends justify the means', in other words it takes him longer but he is willing to level and gear a job within what he deems reasonable. His non SoA MNK that he geared with stuff he had for THF and AH options is outputting 500k to my 1.7mil when we trio Volatile Matamata. This isn't about bragging this is simply pointing out a few brawny MNKs (like my friend) could take down this NM.

While it wouldn't be a trio it's still doable and that's with 0 R/E/M/D requirement. All weaker gear means is adjusting your strategy for example without me my friend would need 3-4 more MNKs with similar gear and he can still farm it. Though it could be 2-3 MNKs and a BRD or COR. Oh how about instead of focusing on Hundred Fists + Formless strikes you could get a RDM who knows how to tank nuking the NM between TP moves and the MNKs (or really any DD) just go in and melee/ws at the correct time.

Like I said the person preventing a 'casual' or newer player from participating in endgame is the player themselves just like it was back at 75.

[Hawklaser]

See this is what I don't get, you want gear on par with new stuff or rather slightly worse as that's the point of this thread by asking for TotM to be continued and not forgotten. If you don't want to take the time to get the latest gear that means you don't want to participate in new content, if you don't want to participate in new content then why do you need gear to be on par?

Please note I'm asking why you need gear on par not if you want gear on par.

The biggest reason I would say for needing the expansion of TotM weapons is gear diversity. Some of the effects of TotM weapons are rather nice, and don't show up very often on gear. Like occasionally attacks twice for example.

My best friend in game falls under the 'casual' meets my 'ends justify the means', in other words it takes him longer but he is willing to level and gear a job within what he deems reasonable. His non SoA MNK that he geared with stuff he had for THF and AH options is outputting 500k to my 1.7mil when we trio Volatile Matamata. This isn't about bragging this is simply pointing out a few brawny MNKs (like my friend) could take down this NM.

I'd likely fall within the same grouping as your friend, but before I go and level a job I don't enjoy I am going to exhaust other routes I do first, then try ones I find tolerable. Like for me, before I would level and gear BLM to do anything beyond subjob use, I would likely have every other job geared and leveled first, which thanks to liking SCH, and at least finding RDM, SMN, and GEO tolerable, that is very unlikely to happen if I needed a magic nuking job.

Just on a standard DD job, if the expected average output for an event was 1.7mil and I was averaging 500k, I would not really want to be doing said event with people I did not already know unless there is are no other options available.

[Osmond]

See this is what I don't get, you want gear on par with new stuff or rather slightly worse as that's the point of this thread by asking for TotM to be continued and not forgotten. If you don't want to take the time to get the latest gear that means you don't want to participate in new content, if you don't want to participate in new content then why do you need gear to be on par?

Please note I'm asking why you need gear on par not if you want gear on par.

Wait a minute, me and others who wanted TotM to advanced was saying that the most, but it seems no one doesn't want to care because they were too focused on the "I" part. As long they progressed where they already have R/E/M/D it doesn't bother them. Again they can take the time to do it, but they aren't like those who will play all day just to do so so please keep that in mind. No one plays like everyone else, everyone have their own time frame on when and how to do things. Like Hawklaser said, it's about the pacing. While u have those who wanted the latest equ. but sometimes it doesn't work for them in some days, but by the time they have the chance ppl who already done it either stop doing them, or already move to another content that basically repeats and becomes more limited.

U are asking me why ppl need gear to fit in, to be on par. Why did u said that knowing it's beneficial to your WS, magic, etc?

[Osmond]

To put it bluntly why are you or players who are thinking like this still here?

If SE wants this game to continue to flourish they have to compete w/ other MMOs who are basically thriving right now(going against F2P MMOs puts a huge hurt to P2P MMOs. That's the truth). It makes u wonder why they are making changes to this game to be like other MMOs if u haven't noticed. If u didn't see the signs of the progression of this game then I don't know what to tell u. They need that subscriber count to stay up if they want this game to last longer. If u haven't realized by now they are losing ppl to the point they had to cut servers by half, make some older content non-lvl restricted, make dynamis easier to play, u know signs that this game is hurting despite them saying that it's the most profitable game they ever made in 10+ years.

[Zagen]

The biggest reason I would say for needing the expansion of TotM weapons is gear diversity. Some of the effects of TotM weapons are rather nice, and don't show up very often on gear. Like occasionally attacks twice for example.

You're missing a few key things here:
1) A casual who isn't focusing on current endgame which is roughly the same as level 110~120 content doesn't need weapons on par with delve weapons (designed to be at the strength of 110~120 while still reading "Lv.99").
2) If you are focusing on current end game then the weapons designed to be at the strength of 99 are more than enough until getting the newer weapons.
3) Effects that don't show up on gear often keep most of those weapons relevant even when compared to the newer weapons, as to OaT/DA see #2.

You still haven't answered the question of why someone who doesn't participate in content designed to be level 110~120 difficulty needs a weapon to be designed or rather updated to be in the 105~110 range.

I don't have a problem with TotM being upgraded though I believe if they're going to keep up with the newer weapons they should require doing newer content to advance because if you aren't doing newer content what's the point of having an upgraded weapon.

I'd likely fall within the same grouping as your friend, but before I go and level a job I don't enjoy I am going to exhaust other routes I do first, then try ones I find tolerable. Like for me, before I would level and gear BLM to do anything beyond subjob use, I would likely have every other job geared and leveled first, which thanks to liking SCH, and at least finding RDM, SMN, and GEO tolerable, that is very unlikely to happen if I needed a magic nuking job.

Just on a standard DD job, if the expected average output for an event was 1.7mil and I was averaging 500k, I would not really want to be doing said event with people I did not already know unless there is are no other options available.

My friend hates mage/support jobs that's why he geared his MNK. As to my 1.7mil keep in mind the more MNKs we have the lower my damage goes when we've gone as a LS with 1-2 more MNKs my damage drops into the 700k-1mil ranges, higher than the others but by a much smaller margin.

Let's replace him with you in my farming group using the jobs you like:
SCH or RDM could easily tank the NM while doing magical damage each cycle allowing the DD to come in and go crazy.
Like I said in the paragraph below what you quoted it's all about getting creative with strategies to fit your preference in jobs.

If SE wants this game to continue to flourish they have to compete w/ other MMOs who are basically thriving right now(going against F2P MMOs puts a huge hurt to P2P MMOs. That's the truth). It makes u wonder why they are making changes to this game to be like other MMOs if u haven't noticed. If u didn't see the signs of the progression of this game then I don't know what to tell u. They need that subscriber count to stay up if they want this game to last longer. If u haven't realized by now they are losing ppl to the point they had to cut servers by half, make some older content non-lvl restricted, make dynamis easier to play, u know signs that this game is hurting despite them saying that it's the most profitable game they ever made in 10+ years.

Using Free to Play MMOs as an example is terrible for a few reasons:
- Different type of player base
- Completely different design of game progression

Free to Play MMOs are much worse than FFXI when you consider how much more grinding is in place to make buying boosts appealing.

Would you be playing if the upcoming Double EXP/Plans weekend worked like this:

Double EXP Bonus 15 day duration: $7.50
Double Salvage Plan drops 15 day duration: $15

Yeah I'm totally interested in stupid shit like that... That's not even accounting for the fact to be on par the exp rates would be worse than they were during the 75 days pre 50-75 adjustment. Oh and you know how currently we're guaranteed 5+ plans in Salvage 2.0 when trying to farm them that would be 1-2 if we're lucky without buying the boost option.

I sure as hell wouldn't be playing if that's how it worked, then again that explains why I'm here paying my $27.90 every month and not playing a Free to Play MMO.

[Osmond]

Using Free to Play MMOs as an example is terrible for a few reasons:
- Different type of player base
- Completely different design of game progression

Free to Play MMOs are much worse than FFXI when you consider how much more grinding is in place to make buying boosts appealing.

Would you be playing if the upcoming Double EXP/Plans weekend worked like this:

Double EXP Bonus 15 day duration: $7.50
Double Salvage Plan drops 15 day duration: $15

Yeah I'm totally interested in stupid shit like that... That's not even accounting for the fact to be on par the exp rates would be worse than they were during the 75 days pre 50-75 adjustment. Oh and you know how currently we're guaranteed 5+ plans in Salvage 2.0 when trying to farm them that would be 1-2 if we're lucky without buying the boost option.

I sure as hell wouldn't be playing if that's how it worked, then again that explains why I'm here paying my $27.90 every month and not playing a Free to Play MMO.

It's funny that ppl quick to bail when their MMO switch to F2P. It lets u know where the loyalty lies. I always wondered why ppl still think F2P is the worst yet the most profitable for years abolishing P2P. U may not realize it, but what do u think they are getting these changes from? Why do u think they are trying to do whatever it takes to bring them back to this game cause they are losing numbers.