Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

[Babekeke]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

The biggest nerf of all is buffs no longer being lockable, making the brd rotations a bitch.

As for needing better DDs since you need to eat 2 marches in prov, alternatively, use a 99 daur brd and pickup brd, or 2 x 90~95 daur brds.

[Monchat]

singing 4 songs is long you know. especially if you want good songs ie you have to overwrite DDB songs with +3 instruments, takes at least 1 minute.

[saevel]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

BS on that first one. It's a 50/50 chance of you picking the right one when it splits and without PD the chances of killing the 2nd clone are pretty low. That's amusing you even survived the initial double 30foot oblivion smash's and that everyone isn't afflicted by a high potency paralyze. Win rates going to drop a lot, it won't by any means be impossible but it will be FAR more then "a little".

[Byrth]

BS on that first one. It's a 50/50 chance of you picking the right one when it splits and without PD the chances of killing the 2nd clone are pretty low. That's amusing you even survived the initial double 30foot oblivion smash's and that everyone isn't afflicted by a high potency paralyze. Win rates going to drop a lot, it won't by any means be impossible but it will be FAR more then "a little".

Many of the groups that lowman ADL at the moment (which are the major source of marrows) are only realistically capable of killing one of the two clones post-split. It doesn't take them 90 seconds to do that. Additionally, this is being implemented (we assume) in the same patch as chainspell shock squalls. I think people will still kill one of the two clones, but some groups that are managing to kill both at the moment will only kill one now.

So some fraction of the total marrow supplier pool will drop from a 100% win rate to a 50% win rate, some will stay at a 50% win rate, and some will stay at a 100% win rate. I don't think it's going to affect the price of marrows that much in the end.

[Yinnyth]

The WS after split is instant, so if he wants to hit you with oblivion smash's paralyze, you ain't stunning that regardless of chainsquall. Speaking from experience, the paralyze from oblivion smash has an unfair proc rate.

[Byrth]

The new SP ability and PD aren't exclusive, and the new SP ability refills your MP.

PD -> 57 seconds of damage/status resistance with a good build
New SP -> 30 seconds of shock squalls

So the split isn't an issue because you'll still have PD up. Just start summoning Alex after the pop and you'll kill one clone every time for sure.

[saevel]

The new SP ability and PD aren't exclusive, and the new SP ability refills your MP.

PD -> 57 seconds of damage/status resistance with a good build
New SP -> 30 seconds of shock squalls

So the split isn't an issue because you'll still have PD up. Just start summoning Alex after the pop and you'll kill one clone every time for sure.

We can kill one clone without PD, double oblivion smash sucks hard core but it's not enough to wipe you. The problem comes after the first one dies and you got to kill the second. By then you've taken more damage and there is a very good chance it'll get one move off before you squall it at 25~30%, if that move is an oblivion smash then it's game over as your SMN's just died meaning no squall so no stun during it's implosion middle finger phase. Between 60 and 25% HP ADL really REALLY likes to use O smash. If you stun the second clone when you engage then it'll wear under 25% and again big middle finger time. I don't know where you get 57s unless your piling on every scrap of summoning magic skill that's around now, I figured between 52~55 will be what you can expect. That's not the full story though, right now PD lasts 45s then starts to deteriorate rapidly for the next 45s. Under the "new" system it would be 30s of near immunity where it then rapidly deteriorates. Honestly your looking at only 40~45s of real protection, gotta time it really tight if you want it to last through the second clone. His damn summoning animation then the re-engagement time is just a huge PD time sink.

[Zamms]

We have killed ADL with 4 clones out and no PD, obviously your DD are terrible. When we do ADL we have mythic drk, mythic drg, mythic sam, relic/empy brd and a mythic whm. It is not as bad as you think, try switching into pdt set when it is starting to split take alot less damage, and yes shadow mantle can proc and take 0 damage. As for Prov who needs PD and embrava on it, rotate stuns on it and it wont cast spells the fight is easy., AV is even easier with 99 Aegis PLD can live thru chainspell meteor and take next to nothing in damage, instead of zerging it you can just melee kill and have pld hold if it goes bad. Yes we use embrava and PD but it is mainly to kill ADL and Legion fast so we can do mutiple runs, but we can do multiple runs without them just takes more prep time. Instead of us doing 3-5 waves of Mul will only be able to do 3 and possibly half of 4th.

[Rezeak]

We have killed ADL with 4 clones out and no PD, obviously your DD are terrible. When we do ADL we have mythic drk, mythic drg, mythic sam, relic/empy brd and a mythic whm.

Man i saw a ls hack the other day cause they had no mythics and killed ADL. Really ADL is either about stunning or perfect defense.

btw i do find weird that pple forget SE said that the new 2hrs will be on separate recasts meaning 57 secs of PD followed by 30 secs of Chain shock squall ^^

[Mirage]

Additionally, with the reduction of cooldown to 1 hour, two summoners can do four new-duration PDs instead of two old-duration PDs during one single Dynamis run, as long as you have one pop set ready after less than an hour of entering.