[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

[Tsukino_Kaji]

explain why relic are the highest D but underperform emps because of WS.

Old. New. Done.

[Rambus]

Old. New. Done.

must be new player.....

new =/= better .....

in FFXI new gear ment more macro gear or bridging have and have nots, in 7 years before the cap 80 there was never gear replacment.

please understand this

[Tsukino_Kaji]

must be new player.....

Wrong again. I'm just more excepting of change obviously.
And they relased all kinds of new and better bear before the 80cap. Everyone expansion added something.

[InfamousDS]

Wrong again. I'm just more excepting of change obviously.
And they relased all kinds of new and better bear before the 80cap. Everyone expansion added something.

And yet nothing destroyed the game as a whole. Funny how it worked until now. It can't be that you can have the best weapon and a capped job in less than a month.

[Cream_Soda]

And yet nothing destroyed the game as a whole. Funny how it worked until now. It can't be that you can have the best weapon and a capped job in less than a month.

So would you be happy if emps just amounted to farming a lot of gil to pay for some sort of upgrade item to go w/ the trials?

Cause that's basically what a relic is. As far as all of the non gil work that goes into making a relic, it's not something that takes an incredible amount of time.


Mythics are the only thing that takes a huge amount of time aside from their gil.

[InfamousDS]

So would you be happy if emps just amounted to farming a lot of gil to pay for some sort of upgrade item to go w/ the trials?

Cause that's basically what a relic is. As far as all of the non gil work that goes into making a relic, it's not something that takes an incredible amount of time.

I don't pay to be spoonfed equipment. There are more than enough free MMOs that can do that for me. Relics take MINIMUM 1month, 1week, and 1day if you completely exclude gil acquisition. That's 5x the amount of time for an Emp. There is a clear difference. Including Gil adds anywhere from 1 day (RMT) to a few Months (if you have a reliable supply) to a few years (if you spend time actually playing and not grinding gil). I'm siding with relic because relic requires being a real player, not a gear-whore or an abyssea-spammer.

[Auredant]

I don't pay to be spoonfed equipment. There are more than enough free MMOs that can do that for me. Relics take MINIMUM 1month, 1week, and 1day if you completely exclude gil acquisition. That's 5x the amount of time for an Emp. There is a clear difference. Including Gil adds anywhere from 1 day (RMT) to a few Months (if you have a reliable supply) to a few years (if you spend time actually playing and not grinding gil). I'm siding with relic because relic requires being a real player, not a gear-whore or an abyssea-spammer.

Correction...relic requires being a real farmer! Not that I'm diminishing the effort it takes to farm the amount of gil but i would hardly amount that to player skill.

[InfamousDS]

The inherent problem here is the intentional ignoring of valid arguments. Up until ~3 years ago, getting anywhere appreciable in FF required a significant amount of effort. The source for that goes even further. Bear in mind, we now get 4x (EP--)-(DC++) exp to the original design. Things are easier, and there is no respect for hard work anymore. My arguments are irrelevant to anything except time investment. Rambus wants the game to use the same tried-and-true formula that has existed since... forever. Abyssea destroyed FF as many players knew it. The first expansion (predating Empyreans), allowed any person to hit the new 80 cap in a matter of hours. The second was post Empyrean, and added new JSE that pretty much thrashed all gear beforehand. We want relics to be better because they ARE better, not because some misguided concept of hatred of the new or "its better because it takes longer". 99% of people who pull excessively high numbers do so in Abyssea-zones. If Abyssea wasn't the new core of gameplay, then I would be ok with an easy to get weapon that was at its best there. But, unfortunately, Abyssea is now where everything is at. There is a huge disadvantage to being able to kill 20+ mobs with 1 WS over not being able to kill even 1 unless it was near dead (in terms of AoE only and exp giving monsters only). Relic and Mythic are superior because Empyrean is a misused system and was meant to be the same difficulty. By overstepping how easy Abyssea is and adding in how easy it is to acquire the drops, Empyreans are now jokes with far too much power. They only inspire awe in newish players, and are to me a major nuisance when compared with everything that predates them.

Edit: Proof of concept; There are no other WS only parties except Fell Cleave, an Emp Weapon Skill. There never was UNTIL Emp Weapons came out, just like no SMN burns or manaburns (outside merit) until Level Sync. The difference between them is that Fell Cleave is supposed to be an achievement, well-earned. It isn't, whereas Level Sync is universal (which is where Emp is heading).

[Tsukino_Kaji]

We want relics to be better because they ARE better

But they're not. And they shouldn't be. They WERE good, people just need to move on to bigger and better things.
I bet if empyrean upgrade items were sellable/tradable, none of the desperatly holding onto the past threads would exist.

[Rambus]

The inherent problem here is the intentional ignoring of valid arguments. Up until ~3 years ago, getting anywhere appreciable in FF required a significant amount of effort. The source for that goes even further. Bear in mind, we now get 4x (EP--)-(DC++) exp to the original design. Things are easier, and there is no respect for hard work anymore. My arguments are irrelevant to anything except time investment. Rambus wants the game to use the same tried-and-true formula that has existed since... forever. Abyssea destroyed FF as many players knew it. The first expansion (predating Empyreans), allowed any person to hit the new 80 cap in a matter of hours. The second was post Empyrean, and added new JSE that pretty much thrashed all gear beforehand. We want relics to be better because they ARE better, not because some misguided concept of hatred of the new or "its better because it takes longer". 99% of people who pull excessively high numbers do so in Abyssea-zones. If Abyssea wasn't the new core of gameplay, then I would be ok with an easy to get weapon that was at its best there. But, unfortunately, Abyssea is now where everything is at. There is a huge disadvantage to being able to kill 20+ mobs with 1 WS over not being able to kill even 1 unless it was near dead (in terms of AoE only and exp giving monsters only). Relic and Mythic are superior because Empyrean is a misused system and was meant to be the same difficulty. By overstepping how easy Abyssea is and adding in how easy it is to acquire the drops, Empyreans are now jokes with far too much power. They only inspire awe in newish players, and are to me a major nuisance when compared with everything that predates them.

Edit: Proof of concept; There are no other WS only parties except Fell Cleave, an Emp Weapon Skill. There never was UNTIL Emp Weapons came out, just like no SMN burns or manaburns (outside merit) until Level Sync. The difference between them is that Fell Cleave is supposed to be an achievement, well-earned. It isn't, whereas Level Sync is universal (which is where Emp is heading).

Just for clarity I have no problem with bridging have and have nots. I do not mind a weapon for have nots that can get close to me or do better with better mixes of gear then me. I am talking about the weapon itself in saying this. Mythics and relics should have the capacity to outperform emps. This should be on all jobs, not this some relics outdo emps in abyssea, and some emps destroy relics in abyssea. Leaving mythics in an usless limbo unless you mean SMN staff or WHM club

Someone can correct me if my view is wrong but to me it seems people want relic weapons to be left in the dust because people think the users are stuck up, rmt, whatever else. I do not think it is right to stereotype in such a faction and i think people are using "everything new should be better" argument as a buffer from their real insecurity. I am trying to find the truth and trying to figure out what could make everyone happy. I really do not understand when people say “no emp should be best that is that” when I say relic are hard to do they should be top due to their history and I do not mind you getting close to a relic.

Fell Cleave is a 300 skill ws. That last part is confusing me. It is an Impaction, scission, detonation, does not have a level 2 or level 3 property.

Still waiting for an asnwer to my question Tsukino_Kaji