[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Be nice if you answered my question, what new gear came out that replaced old?, before abyssea.

Every expansion had it, there are too many count. In every expansion what people were using was replaced by what was new. If not, you'd still be wearing your full RSE all the time.

[Rambus]

Every expansion had it, there are too many count. In every expansion what people were using was replaced by what was new. If not, you'd still be wearing your full RSE all the time.

No, nothing ever got replaced, there was what i call bridges of have and have nots, like v-fork for non relic users that replaced AH alts

what did THF and such tp in before homan?

How meny thf at 75 use level 50 body? and later dnc?

people use PW staff over HQ staff? people use ZNM T4 staff over HQ staffs?

I can't think of anything that replaced sky gear.

oh wait... when your magic caped I guess you get faster tp in Byakko's Haidate over emp +2. yeah sure... progress....

you can't name any, try naming a few so i can counter it

how meny salavge amor was real improvement? I count morr body, morr pants, morr feet ( RDM)
full mori set for magic casting ( blu) skadi hands for ws ( RNG), skadi pants for tp ( in specific STP setups, RNG) usu feet ( SAM ) full usu ( pup I guess)

[InfamousDS]

The inherent problem here is the intentional ignoring of valid arguments. Up until ~3 years ago, getting anywhere appreciable in FF required a significant amount of effort. The source for that goes even further. Bear in mind, we now get 4x (EP--)-(DC++) exp to the original design. Things are easier, and there is no respect for hard work anymore. My arguments are irrelevant to anything except time investment. Rambus wants the game to use the same tried-and-true formula that has existed since... forever. Abyssea destroyed FF as many players knew it. The first expansion (predating Empyreans), allowed any person to hit the new 80 cap in a matter of hours. The second was post Empyrean, and added new JSE that pretty much thrashed all gear beforehand. We want relics to be better because they ARE better, not because some misguided concept of hatred of the new or "its better because it takes longer". 99% of people who pull excessively high numbers do so in Abyssea-zones. If Abyssea wasn't the new core of gameplay, then I would be ok with an easy to get weapon that was at its best there. But, unfortunately, Abyssea is now where everything is at. There is a huge disadvantage to being able to kill 20+ mobs with 1 WS over not being able to kill even 1 unless it was near dead (in terms of AoE only and exp giving monsters only). Relic and Mythic are superior because Empyrean is a misused system and was meant to be the same difficulty. By overstepping how easy Abyssea is and adding in how easy it is to acquire the drops, Empyreans are now jokes with far too much power. They only inspire awe in newish players, and are to me a major nuisance when compared with everything that predates them.

Edit: Proof of concept; There are no other WS only parties except Fell Cleave, an Emp Weapon Skill. There never was UNTIL Emp Weapons came out, just like no SMN burns or manaburns (outside merit) until Level Sync. The difference between them is that Fell Cleave is supposed to be an achievement, well-earned. It isn't, whereas Level Sync is universal (which is where Emp is heading).

[Tsukino_Kaji]

We want relics to be better because they ARE better

But they're not. And they shouldn't be. They WERE good, people just need to move on to bigger and better things.
I bet if empyrean upgrade items were sellable/tradable, none of the desperatly holding onto the past threads would exist.

[Rambus]

The inherent problem here is the intentional ignoring of valid arguments. Up until ~3 years ago, getting anywhere appreciable in FF required a significant amount of effort. The source for that goes even further. Bear in mind, we now get 4x (EP--)-(DC++) exp to the original design. Things are easier, and there is no respect for hard work anymore. My arguments are irrelevant to anything except time investment. Rambus wants the game to use the same tried-and-true formula that has existed since... forever. Abyssea destroyed FF as many players knew it. The first expansion (predating Empyreans), allowed any person to hit the new 80 cap in a matter of hours. The second was post Empyrean, and added new JSE that pretty much thrashed all gear beforehand. We want relics to be better because they ARE better, not because some misguided concept of hatred of the new or "its better because it takes longer". 99% of people who pull excessively high numbers do so in Abyssea-zones. If Abyssea wasn't the new core of gameplay, then I would be ok with an easy to get weapon that was at its best there. But, unfortunately, Abyssea is now where everything is at. There is a huge disadvantage to being able to kill 20+ mobs with 1 WS over not being able to kill even 1 unless it was near dead (in terms of AoE only and exp giving monsters only). Relic and Mythic are superior because Empyrean is a misused system and was meant to be the same difficulty. By overstepping how easy Abyssea is and adding in how easy it is to acquire the drops, Empyreans are now jokes with far too much power. They only inspire awe in newish players, and are to me a major nuisance when compared with everything that predates them.

Edit: Proof of concept; There are no other WS only parties except Fell Cleave, an Emp Weapon Skill. There never was UNTIL Emp Weapons came out, just like no SMN burns or manaburns (outside merit) until Level Sync. The difference between them is that Fell Cleave is supposed to be an achievement, well-earned. It isn't, whereas Level Sync is universal (which is where Emp is heading).

Just for clarity I have no problem with bridging have and have nots. I do not mind a weapon for have nots that can get close to me or do better with better mixes of gear then me. I am talking about the weapon itself in saying this. Mythics and relics should have the capacity to outperform emps. This should be on all jobs, not this some relics outdo emps in abyssea, and some emps destroy relics in abyssea. Leaving mythics in an usless limbo unless you mean SMN staff or WHM club

Someone can correct me if my view is wrong but to me it seems people want relic weapons to be left in the dust because people think the users are stuck up, rmt, whatever else. I do not think it is right to stereotype in such a faction and i think people are using "everything new should be better" argument as a buffer from their real insecurity. I am trying to find the truth and trying to figure out what could make everyone happy. I really do not understand when people say “no emp should be best that is that” when I say relic are hard to do they should be top due to their history and I do not mind you getting close to a relic.

Fell Cleave is a 300 skill ws. That last part is confusing me. It is an Impaction, scission, detonation, does not have a level 2 or level 3 property.

Still waiting for an asnwer to my question Tsukino_Kaji

[InfamousDS]

Fell Cleave is a 300 skill ws. That last part is confusing me

That is an error on my part. I'm only intimately familiar with Dagger Magians, I know the paths for perp- and that's it for my other weapon. I just see so many people using Emp and Fell Cleave together (I know what it looks like) without actually having checked them to see the WS on it.

[Cream_Soda]

No, but there is a reason SE made relics such high D in trials no? don't it seem that was an attempt to work around the things you just listed and trying to make them better then emps?

Like i said before the way SE has some stats on gear it seems random stats are thown on them and hope it works, that never gets tested so we tell them why it does not work as it should.

maybe, maybe not, but at this point, it's all speculation.

I don't pay to be spoonfed equipment. There are more than enough free MMOs that can do that for me. Relics take MINIMUM 1month, 1week, and 1day if you completely exclude gil acquisition. That's 5x the amount of time for an Emp. There is a clear difference. Including Gil adds anywhere from 1 day (RMT) to a few Months (if you have a reliable supply) to a few years (if you spend time actually playing and not grinding gil). I'm siding with relic because relic requires being a real player, not a gear-whore or an abyssea-spammer.

The only reason it even takes that long is because of the time you have to wait between dynamis runs, that's not time spent doing work.

If you did an emp, and only put in the same number of hours as you did on a dynamis weapon, it'd take longer if you're excluding the gil.

For example, 2 nights a week dyna, 4 hr runs. Do 4 hrs and 2 nights a week upgrading an emp. The only diff is that you can do an emp whenever you want and for dyna you have to wait (which won't even be the case as of next update)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Still waiting for an asnwer to my question Tsukino_Kaji

Wait for an answer and not accepting the answer you were given are two differnet things.

[Rambus]

That is an error on my part. I'm only intimately familiar with Dagger Magians, I know the paths for perp- and that's it for my other weapon. I just see so many people using Emp and Fell Cleave together (I know what it looks like) without actually having checked them to see the WS on it.

DRK and WAR can use Fell Cleave, the emp ws for GA is called Ukko's fury.

Fell Cleave is for AoE farming in abyssea but.. blu does it best XD

Cream_Soda relics are a MIN 10 days, and thats assuming you have all the money on the first day.

1>2: JP midnight
2>3: 1 week from trade
3>4: 82 hrs
4>5 : no wait

and you are assuming things, you do not know if that update is going to allow you to make relics faster, it might we do not know, like you said speculation.

relics and mythics take more work and time then emps, should be no argue to that.

Tsukino_Kaji , answer my question to show your not making a false statment:

Every expansion had it, there are too many count. In every expansion what people were using was replaced by what was new. If not, you'd still be wearing your full RSE all the time.

I disagree with that, i told you why, ball is in your court.

[Cream_Soda]

how meny salavge amor was real improvement? I count morr body, morr pants, morr feet ( RDM)
full mori set for magic casting ( blu) skadi hands for ws ( RNG), skadi pants for tp ( in specific STP setups, RNG) usu feet ( SAM ) full usu ( pup I guess)

Ares legs for ws. Then those got beat out by the later released hachiryu haidate.

Usu was definitely an upgrade for mnk.