FFXI fixed!

[FrankReynolds]

1) You play an MMO for strong gear, and obtain it.
2) You use strong gear to face a monster or [increasingly] difficult content.
3) You obtain stronger and better gear as your reward(s).

Your missing a step:

4) After you have gotten to wear the best gear for a sufficient amount of time, the developer makes that gear available to everyone and you start back at step 2.

If you add something that average joes can't do, and add awesome gear to it, then the next new event has to be even harder to compensate for the new uber gear that the leet players will be wearing. Then when the leet get their Uber +2 gear from that event, the next event has to be even harder than the second one to compensate for the uber +2 stats. The fourth event harder than the third one. This goes on until you reach a state where 90% of the players get KOed for even mentioning the name of the event, while a few guys are cruising through it with basically the same degree of difficulty that they had with the first event, because they have all the awesome gear (or atmas or temp items or w/e) that makes things easier.

[Shoko]

Your missing a step:

4) After you have gotten to wear the best gear for a sufficient amount of time, the developer makes that gear available to everyone and you start back at step 2.

If you add something that average joes can't do, and add awesome gear to it, then the next new event has to be even harder to compensate for the new uber gear that the leet players will be wearing. Then when the leet get their Uber +2 gear from that event, the next event has to be even harder than the second one to compensate for the uber +2 stats. The fourth event harder than the third one. This goes on until you reach a state where 90% of the players get KOed for even mentioning the name of the event, while a few guys are cruising through it with basically the same degree of difficulty that they had with the first event, because they have all the awesome gear (or atmas or temp items or w/e) that makes things easier.

Step 4 is logical and fine, but it's currently been going on for over 3 years now. It's quite alright to go back to more hardcore times once again for a while, and treat those players to something nice. I know you are trying to joke with the mock up list I made, but there is no fault in what I'm saying. That's how a generic MMO works-- gear for hardcore players will always be much better than casual content, and they deserve access to it.

There is nothing stopping a casual player from taking a few steps to circumvent doing specific content and still getting top of the line gear as well. There's nothing in this game that cannot be purchased, R/E, AHable or otherwise-- the right amount of gil will get you whatever you want in this game if you decide to go that route. There is also nothing stopping the casual player from forming their own groups to obtain much better gear than what they currently have on as well, or from joining an LS to get gear for a specific amount of time. The only thing that stops them is general laziness, reclusiveness or their own personal morality factor.

[FrankReynolds]

Step 4 is logical and fine, but it's currently been going on for over 3 years now. It's quite alright to go back to more hardcore times once again for a while, and treat those players to something nice. I know you are trying to joke with the mock up list I made, but there is no fault in what I'm saying. That's how a generic MMO works-- gear for hardcore players will always be much better than casual content, and they deserve access to it.

There is nothing stopping a casual player from taking a few steps to circumvent doing specific content and still getting top of the line gear as well. There's nothing in this game that cannot be purchased, R/E, AHable or otherwise-- the right amount of gil will get you whatever you want in this game if you decide to go that route. There is also nothing stopping the casual player from forming their own groups to obtain much better gear than what they currently have on as well, or from joining an LS to get gear for a specific amount of time. The only thing that stops them is general laziness, reclusiveness or their own personal morality factor.

I don't know what hardcore times you want to go back to. Before the level cap increase, you had what? Limbus, Sea, Sky, dynamis, kings, Salvage and ZNM? Which of those events was harder than VW? Or Neo Nyzul? Or even abyssea?

The hardcore past doesn't exist. Every end game event of old had the same result as the ones in game now. Get a bunch of people and do it every week and you will get the item. There was rarely if ever a question as to whether you would complete the run. It was always just a matter of repetition. You got +1 versions by paying more. Not by beating harder content. Billy the armadaberk warrior bad ass just paid 100 mil more than joey the mediocre adaberk warrior. He didn't beat an extra special zone that drops +1 abjurations, he just bought it from some lucky crafter. There was no +1 gear from salvage, and it had the same problems we have now. Where in you go 1,000 times and never get that 35 piece, but the dodo bird token treasure hunter thief in full af over there gets it his first run.

They have seriously run out of stuff. Asking for harder content is just begging for some infuriating new RNG based content that has no rhyme or reason to it and will not make you feel more accomplished for having gotten lucky. Best case scenario, they put in some event that only the leet can handle. The leet get gear and laugh at everyone else. Most likely scenario: They put in some crap like Neo Nyzul that is so random that you know its just luck and not skill, and people cheat until everyone has all the gear anyways.

[Arcon]

I don't know what hardcore times you want to go back to. Before the level cap increase, you had what? Limbus, Sea, Sky, dynamis, kings, Salvage and ZNM? Which of those events was harder than VW? Or Neo Nyzul? Or even abyssea?

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.

All of those events are harder than both VW and Abyssea. I have absolutely no idea how you can even for a second assume anything else. How many times did you duo Kirin at 75? Or JoL? AV? SSR? PW? T3 ZNM? Proto-Ultima? DL? Nidhogg? Or anything else in that content? When was the last time you took more than two people to kill anything in Abyssea (where the third guy was not just a proc job)? And I bet the number of times you wiped in VW is less than the number of times you wiped in any of the events I just mentioned. When you do a VW run you already assume that you're going to win. You don't require skill or strategy or even a good setup.

Neo-Nyzul is hard only because of the time limit. The content itself is easy. It's just luck screwing you over. Which brings me to my next point: Why do you assume that whenever we ask for challenge we're gonna get shafted by the RNG? Neo-Nyzul is and VW are the only things I can think of where that's the case. Aside from sea capes/torques, Salvage 35 bodies and regular Dynamis AF the drop rate on pretty much everything at 75 was decent. The drop rate on Legion and Einherjar gear is alright too. I'm really not sure where you're getting this from. Is it just VW and Neo-Nyzul tainting your opinion on this, or is there something else?

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.

I think you severely overestimate the effect gear has in this situation. There is not a single event I can think of that can be cleared by a decked out alliance but can not be cleared by an alliance with people missing gear left and right. That was the case at 75 too. The only two really important stats back then were Accuracy for melee and Magic Accuracy for mages.

And I already mentioned before that the gap in gear will never be as big as it used to be, because the base is already set very high with Abyssea gear. If someone has full Empyrean +2 gear, they will have a very good basis in terms of their jobs' capabilities. Adding onto that will not make people exponentially stronger, only give them edges in situational cases.

I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

I'm not unhappy. That's also something people don't quite seem to get. As soon as someone suggests something that goes against their views people like to jump at things like "whining", "bitching" and (for the mentally challenged crowd) "u mad", without realizing that if I wasn't enjoying the game, I wouldn't be playing. This is just something that would make the game more appealing to me.

If people wanna argue against this, please keep the following in mind:

• We hate RNG shafting as much as the next guy. This is not what we're asking for.
• We're not asking for elitism. We do not want exclusion of players. All events should be accessible to everyone. But it should take strategy, practice and effort to win.
• We're not asking for rewards that will break the game or remove the challenge. We're asking for an incentive to perform well. Whatever that incentive may be is up to SE.