FFXI fixed!

[Slaxx]

I think the point Arcon is trying to make (and has made pretty clearly to me) is that "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) can clear the low tier content for the low tier gear so he will no longer be "Joe Pink". Using that gear and the skills obtained through clearing the low tier he will then be better able to succeed at the higher tier content and have a chance at the better rewards it offers.

Sarick at this point you seem to be ignoring the meat of what Arcon is saying and taking small points out of context and ignoring the overall system he is proposing.

Arcon please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assesment of what you are proposing.

[Arcon]

Arcon please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assesment of what you are proposing.

No, you're quite correct, and I feel most people got it as well. I did post it about fifteen times so far, so not really surprising. Some disagree, and that's ok too. But he's just posting to have the last word now.

I'll let him have it, this argument has lost all of its amusement for me. He's trying so hard to discredit me that he makes leaps of judgment and states one groundless assumption after another.

One final thing to think about, Sarick, is how insulting you are to everyone who's not able to participate in hardcore content right now. You're basically telling them that if they're not hardcore players they'll never improve and always remain insignificant lowly players who will have to settle for whatever scraps they're able to pick up. That alone shows enough of your attitude as well as your faith in the community.

[..] "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) [..]

It's worth to stop arguing any further with just to not have to read that again.

[Sarick]

One final thing to think about, Sarick, is how insulting you are to everyone who's not able to participate in hardcore content right now. You're basically telling them that if they're not hardcore players they'll never improve and always remain insignificant lowly players who will have to settle for whatever scraps they're able to pick up. That alone shows enough of your attitude as well as your faith in the community.

I'm not insulting those players, I'm trying to set a bar where it possible to complete at lower tier with the same rewards at different drop rates. If they can't reach the skill set levels they have a lower tier they can compete on without needing resorting to frustrate themselves or deal with elitist for the same gear.

No one has fun by saying "I give up F this game!" If, they can learn this fine and dandy but for the love of all that holy don't say shit that this shit or scales to all players at the highest level without realizing the highest levels will always be another minority.

It's clear you want more challenging content and there are multiple reasons both spoken and unspoken behind this. The thing that pushes buttons is the tiers seem to be setup as method to create gear that one can prance around in and say look at me I beat leet boss.

You stated that you don't care about this and wouldn't mind it being in the other pools. Even if that's not what you want it still doesn't excuse that this system of yours is harsh for people who can't confirm to the standards of Jimmy leet.

I attack your credibility because, you're insulting people by implying they don't deserve access to some items or gear even if they can earn it through multiple paths. This isn't good for anyone and separates the community into haves and have nots. The community where players MUST meet the hardcore level of skill or give up.

I if remember currently I read that you're happy with the games current state, people with the capacity to get things done easily are often happy with the status quo. It then comes down to wanting higher rewards for bigger challenges. Everyone can agree to this at some level unless, it tries to create an illusion that one person is worth more than another. This is what your system does.

[Arcon]

I attack your credibility because, you're insulting people by implying they don't deserve access to some items or gear even if they can earn it through multiple paths. This isn't good for anyone and separates the community into haves and have nots. The community where players MUST meet the hardcore level of skill or give up.

Liar. I wasn't implying that.

I if remember currently I read that you're happy with the games current state, people with the capacity to get things done easily are often happy with the status quo. It then comes down to wanting higher rewards for bigger challenges. Everyone can agree to this at some level unless, it tries to create an illusion that one person is worth more than another. This is what your system does.

You're mixing things up. I said that I am happy, for myself with the current game. I can already achieve these things and am doing so. But I don't think this is what it should be like. That's why I support difficulty tiers.

Currently: only one difficulty, hard.
Suggestion: add more and easier difficulties.

Here's the thing you don't get (well, one of them): I already have gear that sets me apart from other players. If that was what I wanted, why would I suggest this at all? If I wanted the system to remain that way, I wouldn't care for threads like these. I'd just sit back and relax while SE dishes out more content that I can clear but others can't. You accusing me of wanting to stand out is completely paradoxical, because I already do. I can live with the status quo, because it favors me. But that's not what I think it should be like. This suggestion would make events more accessible and help people get better at content that they currently cannot clear, or even attempt.

You probably won't believe me anyway, but I'll still say it: the main reason why I want these things added is because I could actually go back to my social LS for events like Legion and Neo-Einherjar. Currently we don't stand a chance there because we only have a few people interested in it and nowhere near enough to efficiently tackle these events. And here's another thing: many people who would help are discouraged from trying because of the difficulty. But with a system that offers several difficulty settings we could be able to get a feel for the event, coordinate our efforts to get more people motivated. And we'd be able to get gear that helps us with the final challenge along the way.

[Sarick]

I think the point Arcon is trying to make (and has made pretty clearly to me) is that "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) can clear the low tier content for the low tier gear so he will no longer be "Joe Pink". Using that gear and the skills obtained through clearing the low tier he will then be better able to succeed at the higher tier content and have a chance at the better rewards it offers.

Sarick at this point you seem to be ignoring the meat of what Arcon is saying and taking small points out of context and ignoring the overall system he is proposing.

NO, He wants the same thing the OP wants and Is trying to validate higher tier content with the assumption that everyone has a chance. I made it clear about personal limitations. You can't place content in the game and expect everyone to rank up into superhuman skill. Consider all the objections from the community when content is overdone. You forget the past where players got sick in game fighting a BOSS that only SE knew secrets to beating. This is the HARDCORE content level people need to be made aware of.

[Komori]

To me, your both right on certain things. Not every Joe/Jane pink will stay that way, we were all "noobs" at one point, so if some can raise to the top then so can the rest of us. But not everyone aspires to reach the top, some are content to just do whatever or the easiest content and then leave the game. And others don't mind sitting in the middle, neither being above par or below it. And then of course you have the few that want to dominate this game. I know people who I've personally offered to get +1 for and they refused, saying Aurore/Perle/Teal did just fine.

But I've also seen people go from being Aurore/Perle/Teal and build up to the best gear and multiple empys and relics. We all play this game for different reasons and have different opinions and wants.

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six. Right now, you few are in the minority and I don't think it's honestly worth SE's time to incoporate something that only a small percentage would take advantage of and the rest wouldn't bother. Most people are still busy working on clearing Nyzul Uncharted, Legion and all of the new revamped content and preparing for the new content that's coming, I suggest "hardcores" work on all the current content and wait to see New Salvage and Seekers also before asking for this.

[Arcon]

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six.

I believe that many of them are just afraid that the result will be another Neo-Nyzul. Neo-Nyzul fits the description of what's suggested if you look at it superficially, as it has different rewards based on different floors you can clear. But I'd tell you this, if the event itself wasn't quite this luck-dependant and had a few annoying time wasters removed it would be a lot more popular and you'd see many people trying to clear it.

It would be a matter of adjusting it to a fair level, but if that was done correctly, I say it would be very popular among the playerbase. Imagine a Neo-Nyzul where you'd get a piece guaranteed depending on the floor you cleared even if you overshoot (like getting a guaranteed F80 piece if you get to F85). Now imagine that same Nyzul with some luck factors removed (for example no lamp floors and constant 7 floor jumps). I'd bet you a relic that people would do the shit out of it. And even if they didn't make it to the top, they'd still get rewarded depending on their performance. Despite that, they still wouldn't lose motivation to try if they saw that F100 was within their reach. This, in turn, would give them many chances to practice the content. They'd get better at communication, identifying the right mobs, positioning and pathing, even the random fights within the event. I know this for a fact because the same was true with regular Nyzul at 75, and I've been in enough parties to notice. You could definitely identify a Nyzul newbie and tell him apart from the guy who was 0/40 on Askar Gambieras.

It's just a matter of adjusting the event so it actually is doable.

[Sarick]

If an idea is presented and the masses dislike it, I can live with that.

By responding in just does that make your points any more valid? You didn't bring anything to the table or offer something useful to compromise with the topic either. It appeared as a devote attempt toward a single direction. It also appeared as though the masses didn't exist or you simply didn't care about them.

If some idiot comes along and starts to spout bullshit wherever they can to taint the people arguing in either party and/or the idea presented, I'll do what I can to call them out on it. Fortunately you've moved on from defending your position to trying to insult me with petty attempts. Since I feel no need to defend myself against your accusations, that means there's less work for me involved.

I don't deny this, but keep in mind it was intentional to find what makes you tick, so the idiot part is a misunderstanding on your part. I know exactly what I'm doing to test your resolve.

I believe that many of them are just afraid that the result will be another Neo-Nyzul. Neo-Nyzul fits the description of what's suggested if you look at it superficially, as it has different rewards based on different floors you can clear. But I'd tell you this, if the event itself wasn't quite this luck-dependant and had a few annoying time wasters removed it would be a lot more popular and you'd see many people trying to clear it.

I agree with this partly people are afraid. History confirms this. Why?, It'd still have the luck a factor and exclude some players who try as they might manage to fail after a substantial amount of attempts. Just trying to beat the floors should reward players with performance points they can use toward the best gear. This is another alternative to having HQ gear drop in all pools.

Performance points would still be based around their performance meaning they'd learn from the process but encouraged to keep working at it. I've been trying to say this all along to imply sense fairness in the previous system. Players could team up with average players the way abysea content is setup and eventually get the gear they want.

It would be a matter of adjusting it to a fair level, but if that was done correctly, I say it would be very popular among the playerbase. Imagine a Neo-Nyzul where you'd get a piece guaranteed depending on the floor you cleared even if you overshoot (like getting a guaranteed F80 piece if you get to F85). Now imagine that same Nyzul with some luck factors removed (for example no lamp floors and constant 7 floor jumps). I'd bet you a relic that people would do the shit out of it.

And even if they didn't make it to the top, they'd still get rewarded depending on their performance. Despite that, they still wouldn't lose motivation to try if they saw that F100 was within their reach. This, in turn, would give them many chances to practice the content.

They'd get better at communication, identifying the right mobs, positioning and pathing, even the random fights within the event. I know this for a fact because the same was true with regular Nyzul at 75, and I've been in enough parties to notice. You could definitely identify a Nyzul newbie and tell him apart from the guy who was 0/40 on Askar Gambieras.

I disagree with placing fodder gear into the game. It just doesn't generate interest you think it does. Have you seen the lower tiers of Neo Nyzul gear? It's trash and worthless in comparison to gear of the same level. The only gear thats useful is from the highest floors. The rest is literally absolute junk.

Under my revised suggestion everyone would still have a chance at the higher tier stuff for trying. Players who compete at the higher level and win would be rewarded with 100% and/or 100% items to be used upgrades for related content. Players who compete and fail still are rewarded in a different way. In my previous example I was for a drop bonus for higher tiers.

If they feel the content is to hard they can opt for a lower tier with a penalty in their performance allowances. Likewise, If they think they can do better or want a higher challenge they can choose a higher tier and be rewarded with greater performance allowances. This allows everyone a chance at the same content and doesn't exclude anyone.

It's just a matter of adjusting the event so it actually is doable.

I strongly disagree. it should also about creating motivation for players to participate in higher teirs. Simply put motivating them with performance allowances that they can use to purchase the high quality gear. This would make it available to everyone.

I want to hear why you would disagree any with this. I've written the core aspects and painted a picture as best I could without insulting you, implying personal bias or attacking your credibility. If you have a better solution or compromise lets hear it.

[Sarick]

To me, your both right on certain things. Not every Joe/Jane pink will stay that way, we were all "noobs" at one point, so if some can raise to the top then so can the rest of us. But not everyone aspires to reach the top, some are content to just do whatever or the easiest content and then leave the game. And others don't mind sitting in the middle, neither being above par or below it. And then of course you have the few that want to dominate this game. I know people who I've personally offered to get +1 for and they refused, saying Aurore/Perle/Teal did just fine.

But I've also seen people go from being Aurore/Perle/Teal and build up to the best gear and multiple empys and relics. We all play this game for different reasons and have different opinions and wants.

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six. Right now, you few are in the minority and I don't think it's honestly worth SE's time to incoporate something that only a small percentage would take advantage of and the rest wouldn't bother. Most people are still busy working on clearing Nyzul Uncharted, Legion and all of the new revamped content and preparing for the new content that's coming, I suggest "hardcores" work on all the current content and wait to see New Salvage and Seekers also before asking for this.

I can't argue with this at all it's clear cut to the point and an excellent post. Kudo's and a 100% like. I wish it was simple to explain the minority with just those numbers. It's unfortunate that sometimes it takes more then a good point to make someone recognize this.

When arguing with Ar con about moral implications or personal bias his stance doesn't recognize these things. He overlooks or has forgotten the real history and/or common knowledge about the community thats available to everyone.

There's no doubt, in my mind his views represent the same rant posed in the original post but is trying to make it more appealing to people in his messages. I may be wrong but the effort to defend this topic against the votes speaks for itself.

[Arcon]

When arguing with Ar con about moral implications or personal bias his stance doesn't recognize these things. He overlooks or has forgotten the real history and/or common knowledge about the community thats available to everyone.

You have yet to tell me why you think I'm biased, or even what I'm biased towards. You also have yet to tell me how anything I suggested is immoral. It seems you've completely stepped away from trying to make a counterpoint to the suggestion and put all your efforts into your personal crusade against me. And now you just completely agree with anything people say that isn't supporting me, even when you don't realize what they're talking about.

There's no doubt, in my mind his views represent the same rant posed in the original post but is trying to make it more appealing to people in his messages. I may be wrong but the effort to defend this topic against the votes speaks for itself.

I'm not defending it against the votes, I'm defending it against groundless propaganda. If an idea is presented and the masses dislike it, I can live with that. If some idiot comes along and starts to spout bullshit wherever they can to taint the people arguing in either party and/or the idea presented, I'll do what I can to call them out on it. Fortunately you've moved on from defending your position to trying to insult me with petty attempts. Since I feel no need to defend myself against your accusations, that means there's less work for me involved.