FFXI fixed!

[Ragmar]

Giving the people who play the best stuff that makes them play better and excluding everyone else from it is a fundamentally flawed approach. It's like going "hey barry, you hit the most home runs! Congratulations! Next year you can use an aluminum bat, but just you. No one else gets one. Oh and feel free to take all the roids you want. You are approved!"

Want recognition for being a great player? Play on an even playing field.

Or it's like saying "Barry, you hit too many home runs so we've decided to remove the homerun from baseball to even the playing field. We're also going to level all salaries so that no one player makes more than another."

ESPN headline news: Baseball on strike!

Fact is players who make it to the majors do get better trainers, coaches and well everything than anyone else in baseball. You don't think a major league player gets better tools to perform his craft than the guy in AAA baseball? You do know MLB players use custom fitted bats right? Are they Aluminum? No cause everyone agree's they would break the game as well as the fear of ball off the bat speed for infielders. Bats require certain specs to be allowed but nearly any MLB player known for hitting is using a custom made bat designed for his specific swing. TBH I dont know if you could have used a worse sports analogy.

Also funny you mention roids lol, primal brew, VW weakening items, temp items anyone.

You also keep saying rewarding one person excludes content for someone else. This couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing anyone else has has ever excluded me from any content in game. In 8 years nothing anyone else had ever effected my ability to participate in content. My play time did. SE removed HNM. My skills did. I learned my jobs and became adept in how to use them.

[Ragmar]

"Play on an even playing field" is exactly what I want. I don't want anything except the player engaging in it to effect the outcome. You can't get any more "even" than that. You don't want even, you want biased content to be designed to what you believe is the highest level challenge you believe reasonable. You say "even" but what you are asking for is your skill/ability, or whatever else you want to call it, to be the highest level so that nobody can have something you cannot. The limiting factor in my suggestion is someones personal ability/skill, the limiting factor of yours is your percieved notion of what is appropriate.

[Komori]

Except Social linkshells typically only do Abyssea or low-man activities together, no social with extreme casuals does Legion or most of the re-done. And for this event to be harder than any other endgame event we ever had, social linkshells are not going to even attempt it, leaving it to be a shout group you have to rely on which means that they will shout for people with empy/relic weapons and good gear. Not "Aurore Thief main-handing Thief's Knife".

And if you think different, your not playing the same game as the rest of us.

[Sarick]

Except Social linkshells typically only do Abyssea or low-man activities together, no social with extreme casuals does Legion or most of the re-done. And for this event to be harder than any other endgame event we ever had, social linkshells are not going to even attempt it, leaving it to be a shout group you have to rely on which means that they will shout for people with empy/relic weapons and good gear. Not "Aurore Thief main-handing Thief's Knife".

And if you think different, your not playing the same game as the rest of us.

You speak the truth. I can't understand why people who think they're in the upper skill levels assume they have room to speak for Joe Pink. They want harder content with better rewards to make them stand out and/or out parse Joe pink. They simply can't understand they aren't in a position to speak for them. Some social LS's are huge and they have a lot of Joe/Jane pinks. Most of these guys wouldn't get a chance.

I think I'm in between Joe Pink and Jimmy Leet depending on the day or content. To much stress dealing with Jimmy Leets.

Never once did I say I wanted all content dumbed down or made purely hardcore. This is what they agree with apparently. They've both said it a few times and I totally agree with this aspect. I'm 25% compatible with their total argument at this point. They want content that everyone has a chance at I agreed to this as well so I can add another 25%. I agreed that harder content should have higher rewards so yet again another 25%.

At this point we're 75% compatible..

Yet when they speak of the hardcore Jimmy Leet content they want special gear to go with it. I disagree with this to a point so the last 25% is whats breaking the deal. This conflicts with the portion I underlined above in accordance with what we agree on. Frank offered a solution of making them glow or gold with the same stats as a compromise but this wasn't enough.

So far A gold medal that says I beat this boss on hard mode or a higher drop rate isn't enough to satisfy them. These things are to inadequate for their sense of entitlement (or in their words accomplishment). That left the total at 75/100 agreement.

For the record. I never once did I say "don't allow options for challenging content." I said more along the lines of keep it balanced for everyone. Based on the way these guys speak about noobs and easy buttons it's 100% self entitlement behind their agenda. It's so obvious a anyone can figure it out.

They can say all they want about it being fair for everyone but the truth equals nothing when it's purely a conflict of interest with blind bias. They are Jimmy Leets asking for content that they can't win if they harbor Joe pinks in the leet alliances. They're basing the difficulty on current in game enemies and content that Joe pink is already getting excluded from in most cases.

It's really simple to see the logic here. If Joe pink doesn't have the skills based on the views they've projected with this added challenge mode Joe pink doesn't deserve the gear.

Like I said Joe pink doesn't have a chance in hell of getting content like this unless it's based around the gear being in the lower tier pools as well. The whole problem that surrounds this is we can't have that because then Jimmy Leet won't have special advantage to prance around in leet gear and lord over Joe Pinks.

[Komori]

Same, I don't have elitte gear. 0/15 Neo-Nyzul Isle Gear, but I have things like Toci's, Heka's and generally full +2 for almost all seventeen of my current jobs and I at least make a TP set and WS set for each of my jobs. But even for lol monsters like Kaggen and Akvan etc. I've been turned down for not having any empyreans or relics. So if I get turned down for "easy peasy" content for having good gear other than nyzul or empy/relic. Joe/Jane Pink will never, ever get to see the content your asking for.

[Sarick]

Same, I don't have elitte gear. 0/15 Neo-Nyzul Isle Gear, but I have things like Toci's, Heka's and generally full +2 for almost all seventeen of my current jobs and I at least make a TP set and WS set for each of my jobs. But even for lol monsters like Kaggen and Akvan etc. I've been turned down for not having any empyreans or relics. So if I get turned down for "easy peasy" content for having good gear other than nyzul or empy/relic. Joe/Jane Pink will never, ever get to see the content your asking for.

Yup, been trying to say this the last (lost count) pages.

[Shoko]

Same, I don't have elitte gear. 0/15 Neo-Nyzul Isle Gear, but I have things like Toci's, Heka's and generally full +2 for almost all seventeen of my current jobs and I at least make a TP set and WS set for each of my jobs. But even for lol monsters like Kaggen and Akvan etc. I've been turned down for not having any empyreans or relics. So if I get turned down for "easy peasy" content for having good gear other than nyzul or empy/relic. Joe/Jane Pink will never, ever get to see the content your asking for.

If that's the case, Joe Pink needs to step out of the pink and get himself some AF3+1 or AF3+2. It's not hard. On top of that, it's casual content. Also you automatically assume that every shout for VWs such as Kaggen or Akvan requires relic/empy. This is not the case all of the time; simply only how the specific person running the event wishes to set it up.

One of the glaring problems with this thread is that you guys in favor of casuals are only talking in extremes. Arcon has given you many examples, the biggest one mentioning that AF3+2 gear is exceptionally solid for any event.

Edit: Also, Most Non Abyssea-Tahrongi could be considered "casual" content as well. Same with any relic. None of these portions of the game is difficult, only time consuming.

[Sarick]

If that's the case, Joe Pink needs to step out of the pink and get himself some AF3+1 or AF3+2. It's not hard. On top of that, it's casual content. Also you automatically assume that every shout for VWs such as Kaggen or Akvan requires relic/empy. This is not the case all of the time; simply only how the specific person running the event wishes to set it up.

You must have missed my post about the Olympics and natural limits on skill mastery being different for every person. They only send Jimmy Leet to the Olympics because his skill sets are near superhuman levels. Jimmy pink doesn't qualify in the same tier. However, They do have Special Olympics for the people with disabilities. These people also get gold medals. This example is a bit extreme but, it is a good representation of the reality between Joe Pink and Jimmy Leet on this game.

There are several factors here that can limit Joe/Jane Pink that go beyond their control. Here are a few.

#1 Personality. (Social compatibility)
#2 Skill or natural limits.
#3 Time limits and/or schedule
#4 Luck

So, You still want to defend that argument, or do you also think the people who are less fortunate unworthy like the people on the other side of the field? They might not openly say it but the distinct wording creates that moral assumption.

[vienne]

You must have missed my post about the Olympics and natural limits on skill mastery being different for every person. They only send Jimmy Leet to the Olympics because his skill sets are near superhuman levels. Jimmy pink doesn't qualify in the same tier. However, They do have Special Olympics for the people with disabilities. These people also get gold medals. This example is a bit extreme but, it is a good representation of the reality between Joe Pink and Jimmy Leet on this game.

There are several factors here that can limit Joe/Jane Pink that go beyond their control. Here are a few.

#1 Personality. (Social compatibility)
#2 Skill or natural limits.
#3 Time limits and/or schedule
#4 Luck

So, You still want to defend that argument, or do you also think the people who are less fortunate unworthy like the people on the other side of the field? They might not openly say it but the distinct wording creates that moral assumption.

I dont see why you compare this with the olympics (and please the special olympics?), thats a form of contest where you dont join if you're not part of the top in that field already, and also there can only be one winner in the olympics. Its not like only one person on a server is entitled to the best gear, everyone can get it if they want. Most of us who are in favour of more challenging content have stated that it should be accessible for all who are willing to make an effort. it sounds like some of you would rather see this game turn into the special olympics where everyone gets a medal at the end of the run.

Bit off topic here cause this thread wasnt about people being pink:
#1 Personality, I dont see what personality has to do with people not getting out of their pink gear. this is an MMO, being social seems like one of the basic aspects of these kind of games. Everyone can get into an ls, or build a group of friends willing to farm some seals so you can get AF3+1.
#2 Skills have very little to do with a game like ff, you learn your JA/MA/WS and know what to use in which situation I dont call that skill thats just paying attention, you fail once maybe next time will be better and learn from your mistakes. Skill in this game can be molded into any form.
#3 Time limits, getting AF3 isnt that time demanding, getting some pieces of AF1 ask for more time to get then AF3+1
#4 Luck... Well you got me there but those people you call elitist also have to work with the luck factor

Conclusion, there is no reason why someone cant get AF3+1. There's a big difference between someone joining an event in pink cause he just finished lvling his job and hasnt come around to get it and people who show up every week in that same pink outfit.

[Shoko]

I dont see why you compare this with the olympics (and please the special olympics?), thats a form of contest where you dont join if you're not part of the top in that field already, and also there can only be one winner in the olympics. Its not like only one person on a server is entitled to the best gear, everyone can get it if they want. Most of us who are in favour of more challenging content have stated that it should be accessible for all who are willing to make an effort. it sounds like some of you would rather see this game turn into the special olympics where everyone gets a medal at the end of the run.

Bit off topic here cause this thread wasnt about people being pink:
#1 Personality, I dont see what personality has to do with people not getting out of their pink gear. this is an MMO, being social seems like one of the basic aspects of these kind of games. Everyone can get into an ls, or build a group of friends willing to farm some seals so you can get AF3+1.
#2 Skills have very little to do with a game like ff, you learn your JA/MA/WS and know what to use in which situation I dont call that skill thats just paying attention, you fail once maybe next time will be better and learn from your mistakes. Skill in this game can be molded into any form.
#3 Time limits, getting AF3 isnt that time demanding, getting some pieces of AF1 ask for more time to get then AF3+1
#4 Luck... Well you got me there but those people you call elitist also have to work with the luck factor

Conclusion, there is no reason why someone cant get AF3+1. There's a big difference between someone joining an event in pink cause he just finished lvling his job and hasnt come around to get it and people who show up every week in that same pink outfit.

This reply sums up my sentiments. There's really no excuse as to why a person in below par gear can't at least get AF3+1. That content has been dummed so far down, you can even quest for it at an extremely slow pace.

Also I feel that if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort into gearing yourself properly, you don't deserve the finer things that the rest of the players are aiming for, plain and simple. Everyone is running the same rat race for the top gear, should they choose to aim for it.